Mellor wrote: »

No need to be sorry. Better to admit you don’t understand that pretend you do.


Countries could do that regardless. They had all the same info as the WHO and the text of the world. By Feb the severity was clear. Blaming the pandemic status is really weak stuff. Time for responsibility not excuses.


Link to this? Usually it’s plebs buying baby food.
Businessmen? Chartered flights. That’s new time.


Saying travel bans aren’t necessary or effective, isnt the same as encouraging travel.


If you don’t understand, that’s perfectly ok. America was advised its measures were not effective. 3 weeks later case are still as 15. 1 month later, 500,000. That’s the definition of not effective.

OK, now I know you're a troll.

I studied virology, epidemiology and a few other things as an undergrad before specialising in chemistry and biochemistry.

I know a little about viruses, not as much as some, but a little and enough to know that you pulled the first comment from a nether orifice.

Are you CCP shill or are you in love with Ghebreyesus?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8199719/Dr-Tedros-Ghebreyesus-career-politician-running-China-centric-WHO.html

From the link below "Mr Dean's comments come in light of recent revelations of Australian-based Chinese companies buying pallets-worth of medical supplies like masks, hazmat suits, and gloves to be sent over to China in January and February."
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6145133960001

Oh, by the way I won't be falling for your bait-and-switch any more.

P.S. Start supplying evidence for your assertions or else clearly qualify what you are saying as opinion.

yubabill wrote: »

And as regards disease outbreaks other than Covid-19 in China recently, we have H1N1, SARS and if you include animals, currently there are epidemics of Swine 'Flu and several strains of Bird 'Flu, there are some examples for starters.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3086218/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92479/

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/healt...ry-trade-study

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siminam...ell-into-2020/

There was a doctor on the televison this morning who said two things, (1).Its absolutely amazing that there has not been a pandemic on this scale before, with the way the Chinese behave around food and hygiene, The absolute rubbish they eat, and the appalling way its prepared. Cats, dogs, baby mice dipped in honey and swallowed FFS. (2) The Chinese have not changed their behavior around "food", they have learned nothing, the markets and roadside huts selling so-called food are operational again, how long until the next outbreak ? Maybe a virus far more deadly than covid-19.

On the subject of food, its only a few months since the EU, allowed the Chinese to start selling their beef in Europe, like fcuk would i be buying or eating that.

Cass wrote: »

By the way, did it escape everyone's attention that "comrade Bernie" dropped out of the race leaving only sleepy/creepy Uncle Joe?

Well i see he said he was suspending his campaign, but the democrats are little threat to Trump and co. They are in complete disarray. Everytime AOC opens her oversized gob, Trump gets another few million voters.


NURSE, HE'S OUT OF BED AGAIN.

yubabill wrote: »

OK, now I know you're a troll.

I studied virology, epidemiology and a few other things as an undergrad before specialising in chemistry and biochemistry.

I know a little about viruses, not as much as some, but a little and enough to know that you pulled the first comment from a nether orifice.

Which comment? That we’ve know about corona in bats for decades?

Are you CCP shill or are you in love with Ghebreyesus?

I’m not going to play into your childish name calling. Accusing everyone who challenges any point you make as being a CCP shill is tinfoil hat stuff tbh. I literal said in my first posy the I didn’t believe the Chinese numbers.

From the link below "Mr Dean's comments come in light of recent revelations of Australian-based Chinese companies buying pallets-worth of medical supplies like masks, hazmat suits, and gloves to be sent over to China in January and February."

None of that confirms what you claimed? Chartered flights pull of stock =/= pallets.
It was mostly Asian supermarkets were buying up wholesale to sell locally. Buying pallets of stock from a supplier is normal btw. Australia are now getting stock from China.

Aussie media is pretty sensationalist at best. People are quite racist. There’s a huge deal about Chinese people buying baby food. I can’t understand how it’s worth it.

P.S. Start supplying evidence for your assertions or else clearly qualify what you are saying as opinion.

Everything that everyone posts is opinion.
Any “evidence” you’ve supplied is just some hacks opinion.

Cass wrote: »

Going to split this for ease of reading. I've also removed irrelevant bits of the reply as the subject matter was not important enough to me to reply to and it was causing the post to be way longer.

Cool, I'll trim it down to the main points.

You claim it wasn't overnight then immediately say you don't trust the Chinese numbers. So you either buy into their propaganda or you don't. Pick a side.

First, I'm not in a battle with the US, China or any one. I don't need to pick a side. The fact you think you do is worrying.


No I don't trust the numbers. I think they are worse than reported.
But even the reported numbers weren't overnight. Are you suggest that they lied to make them worse?

Trump Derangement Syndrome. People who hate President Trump because everyone else does. Usually they have bought into everything told to them by a leftist media or because they're too ignorant to educate themselves. Otherwise known as sheep.

Cool. TIL I guess.
The same phenomenon exists on the other side. People blindly believe what ever their "side" says.
Predetermining what side you are on is American politics all over. It's dumbed down for the uneducated, who can't think rationally.

The message was not from the WHO directly, but them [WHO] citing a chinese authority. IOW the WHO had no proof and according to other sources the Chinese knew weeks before (as early as DEcember) that P2P transmission was not only possible but happening. WHO relied on information from a Country famous for their propaganda and media manipulation.

WHO should have trusted Chinese information in the early stages. The world shouldn't have either. But there as nothing to compare to. Italy was the eye opener for most.

So President Trump, up and into March, continued to say P2P was not possible?

You brought up P2P, not me. I don't think trump has ever said anything remotely that technical.

Yeah, alright. Calm down there "bernie".

Attack the post, not the poster. You're supposed to be a mod here. Attitude is a bit poor tbh.

Why wouldn't who send help? Trump? Did you read my post at all. I just said that Trump sent aid and a naval medical ship, the "Comfort", and Governor Cuomo even thanked Trump for his aid and response.

I think the comprehension was lacking there a bit.
You highlight Trump sending comfort sending Comfort to NYC. I'm saying of course he sent aid, why wouldn't he?
Are you really looking for a pat of the back for sending aid to americans citizens? That's not commendable, that the minimum expectation.

Cass wrote: »

Nope. You said my comment was like the Donald Trump approach. No explanation other than that single line.

Presenting misleading information as facts, propaganda, alternative facts.
Pick what ever phrase you prefer. It would have been an easy "ok, I was being dramatic". But instead you still denying it. Why?

Let's not fight propaganda with more propaganda. stick to facts.

What did i sidestep? You said my comments about China are lies. I said to prove it, you make accusations against me then continue to insist i'm lying.

I've quoted it multiple times. You said.

They went from thousands of new cases per day to none (0), OVERNIGHT.

That didn't happen. At first I gave benefit for dramatic language, but you've continued to dig your heels in, so it's become a bare faced lie.

Evidence:
Feb 18th. The last day with >1000 new cases
Feb 19th: Is not zero cases, as you claimed
Feb 29th: >500 new cases
March: Numbers generally >100, but cases reported every day.
April: Low numbers, but not zero.

Source:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

And yes, I don't trust the reported numbers. I said that from first post.
I've read that they excluded asymptomatic cases for a start. But those numbers don't match your claim.

Hence i can have an opinion without the need to find alternatives. Buying faulty and useless PPE gear from the very people that spread this virus, to me, is the very definition of insanity.

Of course you can have an opinion. But without an alternative that opinion is worthless, surely you can grasp that.

Buying from China if there was PPE available in the EU. Insanity.
Buying from china when there's no other option available. Not remotely the same.

Nope. You gave an opinion without data, facts, links, etc. and when i asked you to prove it you said, somewhat incredulously, that you were not going to.

THAT is clear to me. Also a small side note/tip, saying "fact" after something doesn't make it so and frankly only makes you seem more unbelievable as it appears you are trying to convince yourself rather than me.

Huh? I provided the numbers in post #1721. Again, making stuff up doesn't help you.
I've reposted them in more details.

So how is what i said a lie when you agree they're not being truthful?

Because the claim you made was also a lie. Do you really not understand that?

What point? You've yet to make one.

I asked you the name the viruses you refer to. Twice now you've decline. Because you can't. We both know why. Just give up the charade.

To whom are you referring? Me or Trump?

That really applies to everyone. Not Trump or you specifically

America has the first amendment which means no limit on free speech. We have free speech here, but its limited.

Secondly taking offence to something is not a cause for censoring people's speech. Even hate speech is protected for that reason.

Freedom of speech means you can say what you like.
It doesn't means you can say what you like with out consequences.
I think that consequence has been lost on you.

I'd love it if you stuck to the facts, when you decide to post some. So far its only opinions, name calling, assumptions and accusations.

You know me so well. Oh, wait, you don't know me at all. Sorry get them confused sometimes.

I post the facts above, and previous. Surprisingly they were ignored the last time.
I think you should look over the thread from a mods view point. Or ask Sparks to if you can't as a participant.
I'm the one whose dealt with accusations, name calling, and in general childish stuff. I genuinely expect a bit more. I've been away too long it seems.

Mellor wrote: »

Which comment? That we’ve know about corona in bats for decades?


None of that confirms what you claimed? Chartered flights pull of stock =/= pallets.
It was mostly Asian supermarkets were buying up wholesale to sell locally. Buying pallets of stock from a supplier is normal btw. Australia are now getting stock from China.

Aussie media is pretty sensationalist at best. People are quite racist. There’s a huge deal about Chinese people buying baby food. I can’t understand how it’s worth it.



Everything that everyone posts is opinion.
Any “evidence” you’ve supplied is just some hacks opinion.

Bait and switch: You said "We've known about coronaviruses for decades. Their are a large reservoir of viruses in bats. We can't possible know how communicable they might iif they spill into humans. But there no chance that he was ignorant to the risk of a human born strain."

A Chinese property investment company buying large quantities of PPE in Australia and sending it to China in chartered flights is not the same as wholesalers buying and selling.

You really take the biscuit with the last one. We have a thing called science, it's a bit better than opinion. At least some of the links I provide are scientific studies.

Your idea that everything is opinion reduces every conversation to irrelevance and if that's the world you live in, then you are welcome to it but it's not the real world that I and maybe some others see.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

First off I'm not anti Vax.I belive that is an individual choice of everyone to make,on whatever information they have.

Glad to hear it. And yes, of course it is people's own choice. I think it's a choice based on ignorance and misinformation. But full acknowledge that people are free to make it. Just as I'm free to voice my opinion on that choice.

NOR did I say without their knowledge.As a matter of fact ,very much with their knowledge and "consent",or suffer social and individual consequences,in lines of international travel,social interaction and possible denying of certain individual liberties or privilidges.

Maybe, I misunderstood. I thought you were refering to the theory that they are hiding microchips in vaccines. Not compliant chipping.
Hopefully that explains my disbelief.

Dont say it cant happen,when we think of how much individual liberty we give up already on air travel post 9/11,where we are taking off our SHOES[Good job the underpants bomber failed.God knows what we would be taking off then in public:eek:] to be Xrayed and allowing a US Federal 8 dollars per hour Peon to rifle about in our personal files of our laptops and PDA's in violation of both 1st and 5th amendments after body scanning us as well,further violating the 4th amendment?,

I won't claim to be as up to speed on the individual amendments Grizzly.
I agree we have more hoops to jump through for airtravel. I've never had my laptop searched. or phone. But I'm regularly pulled out for swabbing. Its the beard I think.
Personally I think the end justifies the means. Interested in your thoughts.
Do americans in general think it violates their rights? Do they think the 1st and 5th amendments should also apply to a potential terrorist?

Lets face it,it is already happening in some cases with unvacced kids being denied school places and their parents being informed upon.

That should never happen in a public school. In a provate school, its their choice.

Not to mind utter morons and mongs getting themselves chipped for work or to save themselves the bother of carrying a wallet.:rolleyes:

No idea what this refers to. They did what?

If we think this world is going to go back to a "Hey ho normality" of pre Feb 29th 2020.We are VERY much mistaken.There are going to be massive changes in alot of things like travel especially.It will be like "free speech " on social media I predict.
You can travel as much as you like,provided you are innoculated and an electronic reader can scan your chip.Or you can say as much as you like on SM provided it is approved "free speech".

I don't think it could happen outside of a totalitarian regime. At lesae no effectively.

You will proably also see the start of the demise of cash,after all,who wants to handle icky paper money with whatever disesase it might be carryig,and its so much cleaner to wave a card or your palm of your hand under a scanner,while saying goodbye to any privacy in your life altogether.
Brave New World combined with 1984 is what I predict in our future folks.:(

Ireland is a bit behind the times with using cards and tap payments. Credit cards have been around for donkeys. American and Australia are miles ahead. I personally much prefer it, not for hygiene reasons, just convenience. I keep some notes in my wallet, but they last a while.
Anyone with a Tesco card is sharing much more information for decades.

[

QUOTE=Mellor;113113083]Glad to hear it. And yes, of course it is people's own choice. I think it's a choice based on ignorance and misinformation. But full acknowledge that people are free to make it. Just as I'm free to voice my opinion on that choice.

There have certainly been some cases involving kids having very adverse reactions to inoculations,including and up to death.Whether this is due to underlying conditions of health,or whatever,it doesn't seem to be explained properly and thus spreads further conspircy theories.Maybe it's just that big pharma doesn't want the lawsuits,or to explain why their products seem to be involved in 99% of mass shootings by the perp being on..or off their products.But thats another bucket of Cod to deal with.

Maybe, I misunderstood. I thought you were refering to the theory that they are hiding microchips in vaccines. Not compliant chipping.
Hopefully that explains my disbelief.

Yup,that sounds more like it.

I won't claim to be as up to speed on the individual amendments Grizzly.
I agree we have more hoops to jump through for airtravel. I've never had my laptop searched. or phone. But I'm regularly pulled out for swabbing. Its the beard I think.

Maybe shape it abit to look like you haven't been out in the wilds of Afghanistan for the last 6months?:D:D

Personally I think the end justifies the means. Interested in your thoughts.

NOT to the point where the presumption of innocence until proven guilty gets thrown in the bin,and the US and EU to a lesser extent but more so the UK where this is eroded in the utterly lost "war on drugs" and now "the war on terrorism". Put it like this...How many terrorist attacks were tharwted post 9/11 by basically federalising the same,lowly paid,poorly trained, ****e PR skilled $8.50 an hour high school dropouts who were working in the private airline security industry?All the US govt did was give this same shoddily run industry a federal badge and more powers to act like Stalins Cheka.Where really said all the private security companies needed to do was be funded to upskill ,uptrain and vet better personel,to aan approved Federal standard.Apart from the Brits with their border Gestapo,no one else has done such.
And lets not even go to the "no fly"risk list! That doesn't offically exist,but once you are on it,it is impossible to get off it,or get information corrected on it.

Do americans in general think it violates their rights? Do they think the 1st and 5th amendments should also apply to a potential terrorist?

VERY much so and its the fourth.The right to privacy in your papers and documents and bidy.The 5th is the right to non self-incrimination.Especially if you are singled out for a personal pat down by one of the airport"security" which has literally amouted to being groped not frisked by a same sex officer. Google it,there are videos aplenty of this happening.

Operative word "potential".Prove first that they are one and are a clear and present danger..Then convict and strip of rights.It's the same with these "red flag " gun laws. Prove please that an 85 year old ww2 and Korean war vet is going to go shoot up a school,because some dumb btch waitress misheard a conversation about this ol guy saying to his vet buddies.There is no way inmy time I could desert my post like that[referring to an armed high school gaurd,eating breakfast in the diner and leaving the HS across the road ungaurded],now anyone could shoot up that school!"
Dumb coffee pusher hears "I could shoot up that school!"SWAT teaam and PD descends on this ol guy and confiscates his gun collection because of this Red flag order from a misheard conversation by some dumb blonde coffee pusher.:mad:.THATS literally how stupid things have got over there in the "Land of the decreasingly free!"

That should never happen in a public school. In a provate school, its their
choice.

Has happened in both the US and UK,and esp in public schools.Google it.

No idea what this refers to. They did what?

I give you the stupids.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/sweden-microchips-contactless-cards-biohackers-dystopian-future-a8408486.html


https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/Vpss0HTR84LFH73bKgzHyd/the-microchip-implant-that-turns-you-into-a-contactless-cash-card

https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/08/17/140994/this-company-embeds-microchips-in-its-employees-and-they-love-it/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/blue-sky/ct-wisconsin-company-microchips-workers-20170801-story.html

I don't think it could happen outside of a totalitarian regime. At lesae no effectively.

AHEM...CHina???You cant live without your mobile phone in China anymore,and what better a tool for Govt surveillance than one that people wil willingly carry about on themselves without any govt encourgement or coercian?Even the West we carry these damn things and cant live without them either. So how difficult would it even be for Govts to demand you carry your innoculation info on your phone?

Ireland is a bit behind the times with using cards and tap payments. Credit cards have been around for donkeys. American and Australia are miles ahead. I personally much prefer it, not for hygiene reasons, just convenience. I keep some notes in my wallet, but they last a while.
Anyone with a Tesco card is sharing much more information for decades.

And for those reasons I dont have store cards. Yes credit cards have been around for years,and are also the most traceable info ever still today. CASH IS PRIVACY! The Germans are mental about this idea of a cashless society,as they know it is an ultimate stripper of privacy.And they are regular bears for convience and state overwatch[They never learn!:rolleyes:].Apart form possibly crypto currency replacing it,how will you pay for things you might not want everyone to know about?Like your regular call girl/boy?That job you did for formerly "kish"as we say in Clare?Very difficult to hide that on electronic forms.

yubabill wrote: »

Bait and switch: You said "We've known about coronaviruses for decades. Their are a large reservoir of viruses in bats. We can't possible know how communicable they might iif they spill into humans. But there no chance that he was ignorant to the risk of a human born strain."

No idea what you you are saying there.
All coronavirus we are different.
MERS was was a CV with a 30% fatality rate. Less easily passed than CV19.
The some strains of the common cold are CV. Relatively harmless.

Your idea that everything is opinion reduces every conversation to irrelevance and if that's the world you live in, then you are welcome to it but it's not the real world that I and maybe some others see.

Strawman ffs.
It’s a discussion forum. 90%+ of what we post is opinion. If you think I’m excluding the existence of science that just ridiculous. In my last post I used a ie ridiculous studies to prove you wrong.

yubabill wrote: »

But that's just opinion, according to you.

That’s just childish. I proved what you said was wrong, using the studies that YOU posted.
It’s a really bad skirt trait if you can’t admit when you make a mistake. So I’m not going to co timer with you.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[
There have certainly been some cases involving kids having very adverse reactions to inoculations,including and up to death.Whether this is due to underlying conditions of health,or whatever,it doesn't seem to be explained properly and thus spreads further conspircy theories.

Sure there have been reactions. It’s not perfect, but not being inoculated has caused much more deaths. Remember polio. Spanish flu.
The decision to not get a shot puts others at risk..

explain why their products seem to be involved in 99% of mass shootings by the perp being on..or off their products.But thats another bucket of Cod to deal with.

Unfortunately a lot of mass shooters are deranged, that comes with drugs regularly. Legal and illegally.
But surely being on or off a product applies to the whole world?

Maybe shape it abit to look like you haven't been out in the wilds of Afghanistan for the last 6months?:D:D

I haven’t clean shaved in years. The Afghans copied me

How many terrorist attacks were tharwted post 9/11 by basically federalising the same,lowly paid,poorly trained, ****e PR skilled $8.50 an hour high school dropouts who were working in the private airline security industry?All the US govt did was give this same shoddily run industry a federal badge and more powers to act like Stalins Cheka.Where really said all the private security companies needed to do was be funded to upskill ,uptrain and vet better personel,to aan approved Federal standard.Apart from the Brits with their border Gestapo,no one else has done such.

Don't know of any terror plots stopped at airline security. Tbh I think it’s main function is a deterrent. Most terror plots are internal. I can confirm that far more consideration is given to border security at an airport (current designing one).

Operative word "potential".Prove first that they are one and are a clear and present danger.

I get that they should. I was asking if Americans felt those extended to the Middle East, for example. I can’t imagine the average Americans defending the rights of some Arab thats refusing to take off his shoes or refusing to be frisked.

I give you the stupids.

Wow. How is carrying a card or phone that much of an inconvenience for these people.

AHEM...CHina???You cant live without your mobile phone in China anymore,and what better a tool for Govt surveillance than one that people wil willingly carry about on themselves without any govt encourgement or coercian?

I was referring to China by totalitarian.
Can’t see it happening in the west. Social scoring g, that sort of thing.

And for those reasons I dont have store cards. Yes credit cards have been around for years,and are also the most traceable info ever still today. CASH IS PRIVACY!
how will you pay for things you might not want everyone to know about?Like your regular call girl/boy.

I fully agree that cash is more private.
But I don’t care if American Express or my bank know how much I spent on groceries in tesco. All they get is the total amount and location. (Store cards track items.)
Obviously, for transactions where I don’t want a record of. I use cash. But I don’t feel like hiding my coffee purchases. There’s plenty I do t share obviously.

Maybe it was all our travelling "ethnic minority"on the move?Seems de riguer to have a UK or NI regd late model car/truck/van if you belong to this "oppressed" grouping.:rolleyes:

I'm on the Ring of Kerry and it has never been so quite, the usual 50 buses a day are non existent since a month ago, normally there would be all kinds of groups with various vintage cars and bikes and loads of other cars passing daily but it's really, really quite.

I can see the road from my kitchen and we are working a lot outside, it's even unusual to see any locals driving, we can here them approaching a mile off. Bliss.

Cass wrote: »

Reading in various papers and sites that up to 6 ferries a day and flights (unknown numbers) are still coming into the country even though we [citizens] are limited to 2km from our home and being policed/turned back if we dare travel for anything other than what AGS deem essential.

Irish ferries and some TDs have released statements claiming it's only freight but there have been pictures, which i cannot verify the dates off, with English registered cars, some with roof boxes, coming off the ferries which would be counter to what Irish ferries claim are freight carriers or Irish citizens returning home.

Tom Holohan and Harris have both said they cannot close the ferries or airports to travel because it breaks EU law. I understand not closing them in order to get freight in, but for those traveling as tourists or "non essential" they should be banned from traveling here and turned away at either the ports or airports. Lockdowns, self isolation, quarantines, cocooning, etc. are pointless if we continue to allow unchecked guests to come into the country.

This has been a thorn in my side for weeks now and I honestly cannot understand the logic of allowing so many visitors from the UK in particular.

When the smoke settles there will be lots of questions to be answered.

Cass wrote: »

Reading in various papers and sites that up to 6 ferries a day and flights (unknown numbers) are still coming into the country even though we [citizens] are limited to 2km from our home and being policed/turned back if we dare travel for anything other than what AGS deem essential.

Irish ferries and some TDs have released statements claiming it's only freight but there have been pictures, which i cannot verify the dates off, with English registered cars, some with roof boxes, coming off the ferries which would be counter to what Irish ferries claim are freight carriers or Irish citizens returning home.

Tom Holohan and Harris have both said they cannot close the ferries or airports to travel because it breaks EU law. I understand not closing them in order to get freight in, but for those traveling as tourists or "non essential" they should be banned from traveling here and turned away at either the ports or airports. Lockdowns, self isolation, quarantines, cocooning, etc. are pointless if we continue to allow unchecked guests to come into the country.

I have been keeping an eye on flights on flightradar, the reduction in air traffic is massive, and often the only flights up are UPS, or DHL etc, freight only. Everyone else, the Germans and french etc are ignoring eussr laws, they closed their borders. Why have we always to be the lickspittle for the eu ?

https://www.flightradar24.com/multiview/53.24,-6.91/7

Click on a plane to see its details.