Advice: Become a teacher

99problems1 · 05-09-2019 2:41pm

tempnam wrote: »

While I don't disagree with the general sentiment of what you're saying; I can't agree with it all.

I wouldn't envy dealing with a classroom full of children / teenagers all day. But that's probably one of the few negatives I can think of about the job.

My view may be slightly skewed by the fact that I know a teacher who went straight from secondary school to college to teaching.... and I genuinely don't think that this person would be able to cope with a job that required them to work until 5.30pm / 6pm on a daily basis.

I think a lot of teachers are out of touch with reality - especially when they go straight from school to college to teaching. They should have 'real-world' experience. How can you teach something to kids when you've never experienced it yourself?

When I was back in school myself, there was a specific teacher from our school who decided to take a few kids into town (Dublin City) to go visit ~something~ and he decided that they would just take a Dublin Bus... he couldn't understand why the bus driver wouldn't accept notes to pay the fare, and that he needed coins. He started arguing with the bus driver over this.

I have also been involved over the years with an organisation that would have a lot of 'training days' for teachers - so I have been around groups of teachers at conferences etc.

The funny thing is that they behave in a way that they would disapprove of if their students behaved in this way (speaking among themselves while there is a speaker addressing the room, sneaking out early, on their phones - basically behaving like school children!).

Yes. I also find teachers to act like children a lot of the time too. They act like they are in the classroom all the time and think they can boss and shout at other people because they can do that in a classroom and kids will listen.

Also seen them grunting and going red in the face GRRRR when they don't get their way. Millimetres away from starting to stomp their feet. Grown adults.

99problems1 · 05-09-2019 2:42pm

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

It’s only a great job if you genuinely love it. I loved it, and when I stopped loving it no amount money or holidays would have kept me in the job. I’m actually better off in my office job (private sector) now. If I need time off last-minute, or want to work from home or need a longer lunch break, it’s no problem. I don’t need to take work home with me in the evening, and when I’m on holidays, I’m on holidays and not thinking about work.

If you’re passionate about it and don’t mind hard work, it’s a pretty good job.

When did you join the private sector?

JohnnyFlash · 05-09-2019 2:49pm

There’s an impression in the public consciousness that teachers tend to be a bit work shy. The short working day, long holidays, and structured approach to work would all support that theory.

05-09-2019 3:01pm

If you wanna talk about work shy, work in IT. If I wanted to, I could probably work from home for a week, spoof my daily meetings, make up that I'm having issues with my development environment so I have to reinstall everything and watch netflix for the week.

topper75 · 05-09-2019 4:25pm

For secondary, if you teach certain subjects, the sector is oversupplied and you may find it hard to get breaks. Physics might be better than say Irish or Music.

When you do get that break you won't start with a 'salary'; you cover for maternity leave and such like and are paid per hour SPENT TEACHING in the classroom. When the kids are off - you are paid zilch. Worse again at Christmas where they are off and you have to correct their exams and you are paid zilch.

The kids are off in Ireland a LOT. Bills are still there in summer.

I think all the complaining about teachers having it easy is usually based on having absolutely any concept of the above issues. There is a belief that you are given a permanent wholetime job right out of college and do nothing when not standing in front of kids in a classroom.

Some people find teachers to be dicks. Fair enough. In my staffroom experience, yes many of them are/were sadly. They tend to be a very political animal and sometimes that yields pettiness and condescension.

Don't go near it without the infamous 'vocation'. You have to really want it.

CageWager · 05-09-2019 4:38pm

Things I love about September:

-The autumnal tint beginning to appear in the trees
-The slightly cooler nights
-The annual teacher bashing thread

Sunny Disposition · 05-09-2019 7:04pm

Have a daughter a teacher. It’s a fine job in a lot of ways, and good money this side of the country. Nothing special in Dublin though, where the cost of living is much higher.

Edgware · 05-09-2019 9:10pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Is it that bad for new starters? I know a few teacher friends and I pretty sure they are on 60k+ with loads of add-on allowances for this & that (e.g. teaching thru Irish). Granted they have 20 years of experience so I guess increments must be decent.

Don't forget the grinds. Money in to the hand

Raconteuse · 05-09-2019 10:16pm

Being responsible for the education and guardianship of up to 30 children, having to deal with children who are maniacs (especially in secondary school, where they do not want to be there), having to deal with parents who are maniacs, being an unofficial social worker and counsellor... no thanks, couldn't care less about the holidays. Why didn't the whiners train to be teachers?

Teachers shouldn't get extra money for correcting in the summer though.

99problems1 · 05-09-2019 11:12pm

topper75 wrote: »

For secondary, if you teach certain subjects, the sector is oversupplied and you may find it hard to get breaks. Physics might be better than say Irish or Music.

When you do get that break you won't start with a 'salary'; you cover for maternity leave and such like and are paid per hour SPENT TEACHING in the classroom. When the kids are off - you are paid zilch. Worse again at Christmas where they are off and you have to correct their exams and you are paid zilch.

The kids are off in Ireland a LOT. Bills are still there in summer.

I think all the complaining about teachers having it easy is usually based on having absolutely any concept of the above issues. There is a belief that you are given a permanent wholetime job right out of college and do nothing when not standing in front of kids in a classroom.

Some people find teachers to be dicks. Fair enough. In my staffroom experience, yes many of them are/were sadly. They tend to be a very political animal and sometimes that yields pettiness and condescension.

Don't go near it without the infamous 'vocation'. You have to really want it.

It's not easy to walk into a job in the private sector on good money.

And you have multiple chances to earn, give grinds etc.

Geuze · 05-09-2019 11:15pm

Outside cities, the wages are ok.

But you won't get a permanent FT job after graduation.

Also, and this is the main point, if secondary, you have to face teenagers every day.

You are part social-worker, part psychologist.

The discipline issues can be serious.

byhookorbycrook · 05-09-2019 11:22pm

Yes, cushy number, go for it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/school-challenges-order-to-re-enrol-boy-8-expelled-over-assaults-1.4007985

https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-challenge-student-knife-expelled-4582259-Apr2019/

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teenager-with-autism-challenges-expulsion-from-school-942678.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/why-there-is-a-teacher-shortage-1.3868165

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2019/0523/1051060-teachers-abroad/

99problems1 · 05-09-2019 11:29pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Yes, cushy number, go for it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/school-challenges-order-to-re-enrol-boy-8-expelled-over-assaults-1.4007985

https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-challenge-student-knife-expelled-4582259-Apr2019/

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teenager-with-autism-challenges-expulsion-from-school-942678.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/why-there-is-a-teacher-shortage-1.3868165

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2019/0523/1051060-teachers-abroad/

Has a teacher ever died at work though?

Poor defence.

Raconteuse · 05-09-2019 11:31pm

Yeah the only way a job's toughness can be measured is the odds of actual survival.

Pineapple1 · 05-09-2019 11:39pm

Toto Wolfcastle wrote:

Itâ€™s only a great job if you genuinely love it. I loved it, and when I stopped loving it no amount money or holidays would have kept me in the job. Iâ€™m actually better off in my office job (private sector) now. If I need time off last-minute, or want to work from home or need a longer lunch break, itâ€™s no problem. I donâ€™t need to take work home with me in the evening, and when Iâ€™m on holidays, Iâ€™m on holidays and not thinking about work.

How long were in it before you quit if you dont mind me asking?

99problems1 · 05-09-2019 11:52pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

Yeah the only way a job's toughness can be measured is the odds of actual survival.

Likewise a toughness of a job can only be measured by how many 8 year old autistic kids shout at you.

emilymemily · 05-09-2019 11:55pm

Since when have teachers got a starting salary of 38k? That's laughable, its actually 36k but thats only for full time hours, most teachers dont earn anything even close to this, even permanent FE and post primary teachers are lucky to have 11 hours a week.

Most teachers, particularly post primary and FE are working two jobs to make ends meet., some travelling 4+ hours a day to work and they are the lucky ones as they have a teaching job to go to, many teachers have left the profession after 6 years of study because of the lack of jobs and permanency, only permanent teachers get paid for Summers and holidays, Substitute teachers either have to sign on or take up a second job.
Teachers dont get academic allowances anymore either.

It takes 6 years to train to become a teacher, thats the same amount of time it takes to become a doctor to be met with unemployment at the end of it, teacher bashing in the general public due to misinformation and nepotism and corruption in a broken education system.

Most teachers dont get permanency for years after graduating, some never do.

As for the job itself, it is not a 9 -3 or 9 - 4 job.
Teachers often start work an hour before classes start and dont leave school until 5 or half 5, every evening there are staff meetings, preparations for the next school day, corrections, folders to sort out, paper work to do, lesson plans, lesson materials, each child has to be considered in every lesson given and lessons adjusted to suit individual children's needs this includes behaviour, ability and child's interests. Allot of work has to be brought home and teachers work through weekends and holidays trying to get through all the paper work. Then there is the training days, upskilling courses that are a mandatory part of the job - these courses are done during holidays and after school.
During the working day you have to consistently be 'on', find the balance of being warm, friendly and open to students, dealing with behaviour issues, knowing each child and their triggers is very important just to get through the day - last year I had a bipolar child in my class who could storm out of the class, hit a teacher, another child or harm himself without any warning, the same child could be exceptionally well behaved, finding the right balance with children and knowing how to keep them calm and understanding their individual personalities is a big part of the job.
No matter what you have going on in your life or what stress you are under, you cant bring it into the classroom.

As said before teachers can be not the nicest of people, unfortunately ive found this to be very true in my experience working in schools, there are some fantastic teachers but quite allot of teachers are on a power trip and tend to think theyre better than everyone else and this is coming from a teacher, bullying in the staffroom isnt uncommon unfortunately which of course doesnt help the difficulties and stress already dealt with by teachers.

Raconteuse · 05-09-2019 11:56pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Likewise a toughness of a job can only be measured by how many 8 year old autistic kids shout at you.

Of course not.

Zaph · 06-09-2019 12:07am

99problems1 wrote: »

Has a teacher ever died at work though?

Poor defence.

As someone married to an ex-teacher, I've seen first hand the emotional and mental strain that teachers can come under. Sure, some are able to coast through their whole career because they've been lucky with the schools or areas they're teaching in/the ethos of the school/the support provided by management, etc., but your sweeping suggestion that all teachers have a cushy number is way off the mark. The vast majority have to put up with increasingly ill-behaved kids, demanding parents and an education system that is permanently struggling for funding.

A second teacher in my wife's family has been qualified for 4 or 5 years and she's yet to get any job more secure than maternity leave cover. So while the money might be decent enough for people entering the profession, actually getting a job in the first place is far from certain. With all this in mind it's a wonder why anyone would want to become a teacher.

Yer Da sells Avon · 06-09-2019 12:37am

A great litmus test for thickness is to ask someone if they think teachers have an easy job. It takes a lot of hard work to make it look easy.

I thought about training to be a teacher a few years ago, but decided against it because I lack the requisite work ethic and would therefore be shite at the job, constantly bluffing, taking shortcuts and trying to get away with it. Like my old history teacher, who showed us the Michael Collins film seven times in fifth year. Also, whatever about the kids with behavioural issues, it's the quiet, well-behaved ones who I'd hate. Sitting there. Judging you.

salonfire · 06-09-2019 12:48am

When in school, salary is never brought up during career guidance. It's all about do what you love. So 16 year olds give very little thought about salary.

Then with the union mouthpiece that is Rte, all school students heard was how badly off teachers are.

It is not until later, the lie is exposed.

Of course for those of us in school prior to the Internet, all we could go by was the breathless Ingrid Miley outside some conference or other.

There was no looking up salary scales on the ASTI website back then to look up the actual numbers.

Even today, it's clear teacher salaries are very competitive, outside the one square mile of the IFSC.

tonycascarino · 06-09-2019 4:16am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Have a daughter a teacher. It’s a fine job in a lot of ways, and good money this side of the country. Nothing special in Dublin though, where the cost of living is much higher.

That is it in a nutshell. Teaching is grand job to have anywhere outside of Dublin.

salonfire · 06-09-2019 7:52am

tonycascarino wrote: »

That is it in a nutshell. Teaching is grand job to have anywhere outside of Dublin.

Even in Dublin, it's far from bad.

A 23 year old new teacher will take home €2200 a month. €700 to rent a room leaves €1500 for beer and bills which should be plenty. That's the worst case scenario a new full-time teacher can find themselves in.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 10:47am

emilymemily wrote: »

Since when have teachers got a starting salary of 38k? That's laughable, its actually 36k but thats only for full time hours, most teachers dont earn anything even close to this, even permanent FE and post primary teachers are lucky to have 11 hours a week.

Most teachers, particularly post primary and FE are working two jobs to make ends meet., some travelling 4+ hours a day to work and they are the lucky ones as they have a teaching job to go to, many teachers have left the profession after 6 years of study because of the lack of jobs and permanency, only permanent teachers get paid for Summers and holidays, Substitute teachers either have to sign on or take up a second job.
Teachers dont get academic allowances anymore either.

It takes 6 years to train to become a teacher, thats the same amount of time it takes to become a doctor to be met with unemployment at the end of it, teacher bashing in the general public due to misinformation and nepotism and corruption in a broken education system.

Most teachers dont get permanency for years after graduating, some never do.

As for the job itself, it is not a 9 -3 or 9 - 4 job.
Teachers often start work an hour before classes start and dont leave school until 5 or half 5, every evening there are staff meetings, preparations for the next school day, corrections, folders to sort out, paper work to do, lesson plans, lesson materials, each child has to be considered in every lesson given and lessons adjusted to suit individual children's needs this includes behaviour, ability and child's interests. Allot of work has to be brought home and teachers work through weekends and holidays trying to get through all the paper work. Then there is the training days, upskilling courses that are a mandatory part of the job - these courses are done during holidays and after school.
During the working day you have to consistently be 'on', find the balance of being warm, friendly and open to students, dealing with behaviour issues, knowing each child and their triggers is very important just to get through the day - last year I had a bipolar child in my class who could storm out of the class, hit a teacher, another child or harm himself without any warning, the same child could be exceptionally well behaved, finding the right balance with children and knowing how to keep them calm and understanding their individual personalities is a big part of the job.
No matter what you have going on in your life or what stress you are under, you cant bring it into the classroom.

As said before teachers can be not the nicest of people, unfortunately ive found this to be very true in my experience working in schools, there are some fantastic teachers but quite allot of teachers are on a power trip and tend to think theyre better than everyone else and this is coming from a teacher, bullying in the staffroom isnt uncommon unfortunately which of course doesnt help the difficulties and stress already dealt with by teachers.

Complete contrast to all the teachers I have known.

Even when I was going to school, the carpark was empty except for 2 or 3 cars (principal was always there).I could be in class at half 9 and look out the window and see teachers arriving.

Even in primary school we'd start at 9:20 and we'd have to queue up outside the door because the principal wouldn't arrive until around then.

I even did this study group in the evenings from 4-6 all year long and most teachers left around 4:10, 25 minutes after school finishes.

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 10:58am

Zaph wrote: »

As someone married to an ex-teacher, I've seen first hand the emotional and mental strain that teachers can come under. Sure, some are able to coast through their whole career because they've been lucky with the schools or areas they're teaching in/the ethos of the school/the support provided by management, etc., but your sweeping suggestion that all teachers have a cushy number is way off the mark. The vast majority have to put up with increasingly ill-behaved kids, demanding parents and an education system that is permanently struggling for funding.

A second teacher in my wife's family has been qualified for 4 or 5 years and she's yet to get any job more secure than maternity leave cover. So while the money might be decent enough for people entering the profession, actually getting a job in the first place is far from certain. With all this in mind it's a wonder why anyone would want to become a teacher.

That's because in my experience they have no real world experience and are mentally weak.

As I mentioned in the thread, my experience with teachers is they think they're in the classroom all their lives. They think they can boss people around.

I was on a date with one before and went to a chipper after the night and it was close to closing. They didn't have this chicken for a burger left and when she was told she just had a big angry head on her, sighed with a serious face on her and looked at the menu above. Didn't say a word to the person who told her they didn't have any left. She could have said "ohh really, let me think one second"

They have no real world experience or know how things work.

I remember a couple years back when they were threatening to go on strike I was discussing with a friend of a friend who is a teacher. I was saying how teachers starting out make great money compared to a private sector graduates.

You know what they said?

"Yeah, but we have to pay tax on that!" :pac::pac::pac:

r93kaey5p2izun · 06-09-2019 11:01am

Teaching can be an enjoyable and rewarding job but it is not a viable option if you intend to support yourself as a single person, in a decent lifestyle any professional would have reasonable expectation of, in the Dublin area.

The significant, and growing, shortage of teachers in the region speaks volumes. Post primary teachers in key subject areas are not willing to accept the terms and conditions on offer and are getting out in their droves. Holidays don't pay the mortgage.

My first choice job is teaching but I will not be going back although I enjoyed 12 years of it. I can make a lot more money for lot less hassle elsewhere, and particularly a lot less snide and ignorant comments about my work. I would not recommend anyone who has the ability to train in another professional area, or a trade, to go in to teaching - and that's the majority of those going into it. Maybe consider it later in life if you have reached a point where you can afford to and have another career to fall back on. This is common enough now with Hibernia available, though all but one of the 20+ people I know who have done this have packed it in, either due to money or it not being the cushy number they had been led to expect.

emilymemily · 06-09-2019 11:07am

99problems1 wrote: »

Complete contrast to all the teachers I have known.

Even when I was going to school, the carpark was empty except for 2 or 3 cars (principal was always there).I could be in class at half 9 and look out the window and see teachers arriving.

Even in primary school we'd start at 9:20 and we'd have to queue up outside the door because the principal wouldn't arrive until around then.

I even did this study group in the evenings from 4-6 all year long and most teachers left around 4:10, 25 minutes after school finishes.

How long is it since you were at school? Teaching has changed considerably over the past few years, there is an increasing amount of paper work and assessments as Irelands education system is following the UK.
In my last school all staff had to be in by 8.30, principal included.
Im a substitute teacher and regularly stay behind getting things sorted for the next day, attend meetings after school with all the staff I work with in which we discuss problems that arose during the day, upcoming events within the school, courses that need to be taken, we also have our croke park hours - 33 hours of unpiad work that take place after class time when children go home.

Zaph · 06-09-2019 11:17am

99problems1 wrote: »

That's because in my experience they have no real world experience and are mentally weak.

All teachers are mentally weak? I've seen some nonsense in my many years on Boards, but that definitely ranks up there with some of the dumbest statements I've ever seen. Sounds like the teacher you went on the date with had a lucky escape if that's your opinion of them.

endacl · 06-09-2019 11:37am

I’ve got 99 problems, but the OP ain’t one.

<Ignore>

99problems1 · 06-09-2019 11:40am

emilymemily wrote: »

How long is it since you were at school? Teaching has changed considerably over the past few years, there is an increasing amount of paper work and assessments as Irelands education system is following the UK.
In my last school all staff had to be in by 8.30, principal included.
Im a substitute teacher and regularly stay behind getting things sorted for the next day, attend meetings after school with all the staff I work with in which we discuss problems that arose during the day, upcoming events within the school, courses that need to be taken, we also have our croke park hours - 33 hours of unpiad work that take place after class time when children go home.

Left school 10 years ago.

Advice: Become a teacher

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