Trump/Russia Collusion Insanity

paleoperson wrote: »

Right, he's complaining about limitations to the investigation. He's within his rights to do that but it obviously doesn't mean the accused is guilty - you didn't really think that's what this meant do you?

It's almost as if you have no idea how these investigations normally work and this is the first time you ever had any experience looking at one.

Did you just try to mansplain a Grand Jury investigation to me?

I posted an accurate response to your claim there was no proof of collusion. Mueller asserts that much of that evidence was destroyed, 5A’d or was inadmissible.

Overheal wrote: »

Did you just try to mansplain a Grand Jury investigation to me?

I posted an accurate response to your claim there was no proof of collusion. Mueller asserts that much of that evidence was destroyed, 5A’d or was inadmissible.

So ****ing what? That doesn't contradict my statement at all. No collusion could be found. No collusion could be proven.

There are items containing possible evidence that you committed armed robbery at some point that I can't access. That doesn't mean someone can say you committed armed robbery does it?

Overheal wrote: »

Doesn’t mean someone cannot say that is no proof I did not commit an armed robbery

After all, Hillary very lawfully smashed all those blackberries and we have incredibly thin eviden(c)e that she did something “impeachable” according to 2016 Republicans.

So you want to say there is no proof that there was no collusion? Sure. Proving a negative would be almost impossible in this situation.

osarusan wrote: »

You have to wonder about accounts that are dormant for a decade and then resurface to spread the gospel of conspiracy theorists.

You don't have to wonder. They are hacking accounts or registering multiple accounts the world over on various high traffic sites. Social media sites. Forums. News feeds. Blogs.

There is a cyber war going on out there it's more than a decade old and it's much cheaper than conventional war. The goal is to sow disinformation and sway public opinion on high profile matters. Be there political or otherwise.



It's active it's ever present and websites are not geared up for it..or they don't care as it promotes traffic.


All of this is strategic on so many levels it would make your head explode.

Yes there is the odd spanner trolling sites for fun. But most people don't even understand the scale of effort is being put into manipulation of information on the net. It's huge. Russia is a major player. More advanced that most. But not alone in it.

listermint wrote: »

You don't have to wonder. They are hacking accounts or registering multiple accounts the world over on various high traffic sites. Social media sites. Forums. News feeds. Blogs.

There is a cyber war going on out there it's more than a decade old and it's much cheaper than conventional war. The goal is to sow disinformation and sway public opinion on high profile matters. Be there political or otherwise.



It's active it's ever present and websites are not geared up for it..or they don't care as it promotes traffic.


All of this is strategic on so many levels it would make your head explode.

Yes there is the odd spanner trolling sites for fun. But most people don't even understand the scale of effort is being put into manipulation of information on the net. It's huge. Russia is a major player. More advanced that most. But not alone in it.

See this is the absolute lunacy of the left - the idea that Russian people working under Putin are going to come to Ireland's website boards.ie and then type in perfect, colloquial english messages in favour of Russia, it's just so utterly insane. I could think this person is trolling but look at the amount of posts they have.

Now ok, with the right there are some conspiracy theorists as well - but the difference is that is a tiny minority of people on the right and alt right that have these theories, like anti-vaccine, anti-evolution, Sandy Hook, whatever. That is an incredibly tiny percentage. With the left, these utterly foaming-at-the-mouth delirious theories are pushed by the mainstream leftists. They're practically pushed by CNN.

That is a big reason of why the left has become far more ridiculous and far more anti-intellectual than the right.

paleoperson wrote: »

See this is the absolute lunacy of the left - the idea that Russian people working under Putin are going to come to Ireland's website boards.ie and then type in perfect, colloquial english messages in favour of Russia, it's just so utterly insane. I could think this person is trolling but look at the amount of posts they have.

“ The agency has employed fake accounts registered on major social networking sites,[2] discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency

Now ok, with the right there are some conspiracy theorists as well - but the difference is that is a tiny minority of people on the right and alt right that have these theories, like anti-vaccine, anti-evolution, Sandy Hook, whatever. That is an incredibly tiny percentage. With the left, these utterly foaming-at-the-mouth delirious theories are pushed by the mainstream leftists. They're practically pushed by CNN.

At the moment alt right outlets aren’t pushing John Solomon conspiracy theories as fact? In the past Fox had on hosts that used chalkboards, string, and other gags to theorize that Obama wasn’t an American but a Muslim Socialist Fascist Nazi. Thanks in part to these types of media abuses a man shot up a Pizzeria without a basement, and a terrorist sent threatening if not intended to be lethal packages to various “mainstream” news offices, journalists, and left wing politicians and public figures.

That is a big reason of why the left has become far more ridiculous and far more anti-intellectual than the right.

That’s patently absurd.

paleoperson wrote: »

Even if true 1,000 employees can only do so much. I can confidently say not one has ever showed up on boards.ie

Many of the "sophisticated algorithms" used to detect Russian trolls are nothing ones that also detect right-wing views. You can see the problem this creates right? To the MSM and some of these laughably low quality academic papers, all people with ring-wing views can be dismissed as "Russian trolls".

Many of the people that have been identified as "Russian trolls" turned out not to be at all. For example:

https://twitter.com/haloefekti/status/987571160983457792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E987571160983457792

https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/987337546790199301

Some are even trying to say Thunberg is a Russian troll:

https://www.rt.com/news/471000-greta-thunberg-russia-influence-afd/

(admittedly that's a right wing group but still).

Beasty/The Admins and the Staff could confirm we've had trolls from Russia (and China) before, aplenty. To the best of my knowledge, we've had more than a couple. Boards ranks up there highly as one of the most trafficked message boards in the West, we got xkcd famous you know, and the site normally pops up in the top lists for internet site traffic. It's certainly among the most trafficked sites in English-speaking Europe.

Still not as bad as the "The Russians hacked the election!" theories, which aren't on some alt/extreme left channel but out in the open as part of the main democrat message. Hillary for example - first Jill Stein was a Russian asset, now it's Tulsi Gabbard. It's beyond ridiculous.

[URL="Hillary Clinton called me a 'Russian asset'. The establishment is losing its grip
Jill Stein"]Hillary Clinton called me a 'Russian asset'. The establishment is losing its grip
Jill Stein[/URL]

Everyone running against her or who she wants to win is now a Russian asset? Who would believe that for ****'s sake?

Her own handlers came in and tried to quieten her on that because nobody is going to fall for it if she's just saying everyone who's not her preferred choice is a Russian asset.

Not sure who has peddled this but my understanding is they did not attempt this. Others may conflate interference in the election political cycle with hacking the vote; I do not. However, this should not detract from election security. Our voting machines are so vulnerable to attack it defies belief. Not to mention voter suppression issues; and this should scream horse**** to even the most ardent partisan: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/10/26/computer-files-heart-georgia-election-security-case-deleted-day-after-suit-filed/803579001/

NSAman wrote: »

I can honestly say, listening to all this BS since before 2016 that I am sick and tired of it.

While day to day things which need attention go to pot (yes that is being legalised also) we have this three ringed circus of democrats V's republicans playing out in public.

Schiff is a lizardman ringleader... The President of the USA (who I personally feel is an idiot) circumvents everything by tweeting his views (which is a great way to avoid the newspapers and the media)

Pelosi sounds like your grand mother who is taking ecstacy.

All the time this BS is playing out, the Average American is paying their taxes so this compete charade is paid for.

All the time this BS is playing out, some Americans are killing each other and fighting over Chicken Sandwiches.

America was once the greatest country in the world. Nowadays it seems to be heading for a civil war created by those that want the status quo to remain.

Sad days indeed.

People in the social media bubble I think really think all that; that Pelosi is drugged or whatever, Trump is you know, Trump, at the least untrustworthy if not utterly conniving, and there is indeed an air about a civil war - but I think that's rhetoric. I think that, because offline IRL nobody is talking about this like that, none of the apolitical media is either, I don't think anything bar some outrage and demonstrations will happen. Worst something is there might be a politically-motivated shooting. But, thankfully, several such people have already been intercepted by the FBI; these people pushing a civil war are on the radar, and not without good reason for being under that watch.

However today I did break from the norm and discuss politics - specifically the impeachment hearings, with a professor; this is one of the few times I think people might break norm to talk about such things. Nobody I know is plotting for the south to rise again, if you get me. Nobody cares, they watch The Mandalorian and root for Clemson football. If the president is going to be impeached/removed it will not be in some utterly bogus way, and I don't even think Republicans will try to acquit or dismiss the trial in some bogus way if they thought it might credibly lead to a civil war. These people are all partisan idiots but none of them are ready to give Russia an excuse to lead the UN security council rolling up in here to "keep the peace"

You don't have to believe it but I'm telling you what I know. Perhaps Beasty/an admin can chime in.

NSAman wrote: »

Unfortunately, I am not in Ireland but in the USA. Hearing what is being said offline, makes me worry about this country.

I hope for this country's sake it is just demonstrations, sadly I think it could be far worse, depending on how far the dems go.

Don't forget practically every house in the US has arms, that in itself is worrying for me.

I'm also in the US, but nobody no gaggles of worrisome gossipers in Clemson are worried about a civil war.

There's a distinction to be made between bots, trolls, state sponsored social media manipulation campaigns, shills and regular people.

We're all aware of the people here who post constantly in favour of a country or a political party. It's common enough with shinners and I've seen some die-hard fine gaelers come and go. They might be working for those parties or they might just be members but their posts make it obvious that they're just spouting the party line.

There's also the handful of people who pop up in threads about Crimea, MH17 or the Skrypal poisoning who repeat the many "alternative" narratives that you get on RT or Sputnik. I would say that none of these are working for the state but instead are "informed" by Russian propaganda, often simply because they are ethnically Russian themselves. The skrypal thread is a good example of this where most of the inconsistent "theories" from Russian state media made an appearance, sometimes laundered through Craig Murray or other dodgy bloggers but the people posting were just people living here who get their "news" from Russia. These are just people, like the shinners and fine gaelers. Not necessarily shills.

Bots are another thing entirely. Anyone can hire these to boost follower counts or to boost exposure and this is commonly done by celebrities and political parties and even governments. These are typically automated but you need human intervention (shills) along the way too for things like coming up with a script or a narrative or creating slightly more realistic profile or for arguing online. The accounts are often created around the same time and share a common theme. These accounts amplify each other with retweets and likes among themselves and and in modern parlance are described as a network or more colloquially as a "botnet". The term predates twitter and I'd prefer a different word but here we are.


With the IRA, the one mentioned in the Mueller report, he was describing a state controlled botnet which was comprised of bot networks pretending to be yanks promoting russian propaganda and conspiracy theories. This was directed at American voters as well as at the presidential candidate himself. The beauty of it was that this was amplified by the victims themselves (see ten_gop for example). It was relatively cheap to do given the massive reach that it had. They could basically promote some made up story on twitter and then have human victims take over. In other words, ten_gop to people like ian56789 to ian's followers and so on.

tl;dr these automated, coordinated campaigns exist and we know they exist and they have an effect. Denying that at this stage is silly.

mcmoustache wrote: »

Let me guess. This is going to be a well known bullsh!tter. I'm betting Craig Murray, Russia Today, Infowars, Jimmy Dore, Sean Hannity or that guy who stopped being crazy for a bit and then went crazy again. His name escapes me.

Please say it's Craig Murray though and I'll explain how often he's full of sh!t. If not, could you please provide a gist of the theory because nobody wants to click on some long video just because you aren't capable of articulating a coherent point by yourself.

DING DING DING we have a winner