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NCT discontinue lift inspections (now with places with working lifts)

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Comments

  • #122
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    KrakityJones wrote: »
    Completely agree.
    Me : Hi I'd like you to check to see if my car is roadworthy please
    NCT : I can check a few bits for you .
    *nct check over the car*
    Me : So all done? Is it safe to drive?
    NCT : No idea, can't check most of the vital stuff, can't say if it's roadworthy sorry
    Me: Soo I just...drive away then?
    NCT : Yup. Sure come back in a few months. Bye bye, drive safe now.

    There is utterly no point to doing the test as it stands as it is not fit for purpose so just cancel all tests until such time that they are able to do them. They had 24 hour/late testing a couple years back when they were snowed under - bring that back in when the lifts are fixed to clear the backlog.

    Exactly.


  • #123
    dkd21
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dkd21


    Every bulletin board or news site is strewn with emotional huff and guff comments about this topic . It looks to me they are trying to reduce the chances of a backlog (double the full test numbers) in the coming month(s) by allowing what possible parts of the full test to be carried out . Up North there is uproar about the complete cancellations of tests and they are looking into a backlog situation in the next coming months which will bring major complications... Seems as though you just cannot please the general public in instances like this and people throw logic out the window and become emotional wrecks.. I guess its part of this day and age


  • #124
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I'd personally suggest that it isn't sufficient. There could be defects on the car, only identified by reviewing it underneath. If it's not on the lift they aren't even measuring the thread on the tires.

    Thread on the tires is measured before going up or when it is up, depends on the tester.

    They do not have to use the lift to measure it so not sure what's your point.

    When the cars were tested on the lift it was money rocket blah blah, now the cars can't be fully tested (for two days so far) and everyone is worried about their safety and safety of the kids.

    Death traps everywhere lol.


  • #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    It’s the insurance and law regarding driving that is concerning.

    The t&cs on insurance state that you must have a valid nct. So what happens if your nct is up sometime next month and you were booked in today to have nct done, the lift is still ongoing and you are involved in some kind of motor accident the day after your old nct has expired?

    The insurance company would be within their rights not to cover you based on the t&cs you agreed to.

    When it comes to the rules for driving on road. As much as it would be nice for the guards to turn a blind eye as the issue isn’t ithe vehicle owners making, the law is the law. With all the stuff over penalty points can the Garda be seen to be turning a blind eye anymore?

    Edit: I’m not due an nct till June. I’m just curious and wouldn’t trust an insurance company to be nice :D


  • #126
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭kirving


    dkd21 wrote: »
    Seems as though you just cannot please the general public in instances like this and people throw logic out the window and become emotional wrecks.. I guess its part of this day and age


    I'm not going to lose sleep over it (since my NCT isn't due), but in typical fashion, we hear waffle from the director of the company doing it, instead of a clear and definitive message from the government stating how it will be managed.

    A simple government statement to say,

    "noone will be prosecuted for an invalid NCT during this period, and for however long it takes to clear the backlog. All insurance is still valid during this time. However, we recommend as always that all motorists check that the vehicle is roadworthy in the meantime. If you are in doubt, check with your mechanic",

    would show some leadership from the government and clear up the situation.

    To me, it's completely unacceptable that this happened in the first place, as is the disruption to the public. They have a contract worth hundreds of millions, and they can't spend a few hours every year to do fundamental safety checks on a lift that's in constant use?!

    I work with automotive production equipment every day. Our maintenance, calibration and safety costs are insane, but that's the cost of doing business, not something that can be skimped on.


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  • #127
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    When it comes to the rules for driving on road. As much as it would be nice for the guards to turn a blind eye as the issue isn’t ithe vehicle owners making, the law is the law. With all the stuff over penalty points can the Garda be seen to be turning a blind eye anymore?

    I'd say so long as your car doesn't look like a complete bag of rust guards will turn a blind eye. But as you say insurance will not be so nice.

    It amazing how outraged people get though. This issue is through no fault of the NCT there is a fault in some equipment they use which could result in harm to their workers so they are rightly suspending use of that equipment. This issue only arose yesterday so they can't have a solution in place yet.

    Yes it is a pain if people have to go back a second time but people getting up in arms saying they will have to take time of work is bulls**t, NCT centers are open long hours 7 days a week, nobody needs to take time off work.
    It is a reasonable enough suggestion to ensure the backlog doesn't get to great which people will give out about aswell.


  • #128
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,060 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I'd say so long as your car doesn't look like a complete bag of rust guards will turn a blind eye. But as you say insurance will not be so nice.

    It amazing how outraged people get though. This issue is through no fault of the NCT there is a fault in some equipment they use which could result in harm to their workers so they are rightly suspending use of that equipment. This issue only arose yesterday so they can't have a solution in place yet.

    Yes it is a pain if people have to go back a second time but people getting up in arms saying they will have to take time of work is bulls**t, NCT centers are open long hours 7 days a week, nobody needs to take time off work.
    It is a reasonable enough suggestion to ensure the backlog doesn't get to great which people will give out about aswell.


    You seem to be missing the point about this pre inspection report that the NCT appear to be trying to make compulsory.


  • #129
    dkd21
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dkd21


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I'm not going to lose sleep over it (since my NCT isn't due), but in typical fashion, we hear waffle from the director of the company doing it, instead of a clear and definitive message from the government stating how it will be managed.

    A simple government statement to say,

    "noone will be prosecuted for an invalid NCT during this period, and for however long it takes to clear the backlog. All insurance is still valid during this time. However, we recommend as always that all motorists check that the vehicle is roadworthy in the meantime. If you are in doubt, check with your mechanic",

    would show some leadership from the government and clear up the situation.

    To me, it's completely unacceptable that this happened in the first place, as is the disruption to the public. They have a contract worth hundreds of millions, and they can't spend a few hours every year to do fundamental safety checks on a lift that's in constant use?!

    I work with automotive production equipment every day. Our maintenance, calibration and safety costs are insane, but that's the cost of doing business, not something that can be skimped on.

    Infairness the internal decision apparently came yesterday evening to discontinue the lift inspection so I would think it may take some while longer if the Government are to issue any sure fire statements , partially due to the nature of it and legalities involved but also the pace at which they operate..

    The equipment is I believe maintained and serviced by the supplier MAHA and it ''passes'' the yearly insurance inspection so should APPLUS not have enough confidence in that alone ? I would believe they have been let down by the supplier but unfortunately they seem to be bearing the brunt of it.

    From what I've seen the cracks are in an area where they would not be noticed in day to day use either by the operator.

    I see the ''hundreds of million'' euro contract written a lot about . They do turn a profit of several million a year but again they ain't a charity and a private company is there to make money and any other company in this area all do the same DEKRA , TUV , SGS (previous contract) etc all do the same , otherwise you would not get any of these companies to operate here .


  • #130
    Emmersonn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Emmersonn


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    You seem to be missing the point about this pre inspection report that the NCT appear to be trying to make compulsory.
    I have no problem with the pre-NCT inspection report provided that the NCT company pays in advance for it.


  • #131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    So the lift is tested once a year but the kettle in their tea room and every other electrical appliance has to be PAT tested every 6 months?


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  • #132
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    The general manager said it can take up to 3 weeks to complete the survey on the lifts.

    Maybe it won't be that bad as they don't use exactly same model as the mot centres in NI.


  • #133
    KrakityJones
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭KrakityJones


    beauf wrote: »
    You are implying that the rest of the stuff they test has no value and no safety impact.

    No I get that, obviously it's important to check the other stuff too but what's the point if there's just as much chance of something being critically wrong with the car in the bits they can't check?

    As an example - someone brings a car in, tyres/visuals/all non lift things are perfect, but the rear axle is cracked in half and about to snap. The steering rack is held together with chewing gum. They get a half an NCT cert that states the first lot of stuff is fine.

    If anything they're going to then drive out in that car with a false sense of security as "hey great it passed on everything else so it must be grand". I know obviously it should be checked/serviced other than the nct but there are a frightening amount of people that use the NCT as their only car checkup.

    The point I'm making is that overall it's pointless going to the NCT right now as the whole objective is to certify that the car is roadworthy (from their point of view). They cannot do that at the moment.


  • #134
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Liveline RTE Radio 1 at 1.45 covering this issue.


  • #135
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    elperello wrote: »
    Liveline RTE Radio 1 at 1.45 covering this issue.

    Oh Joooeeee, I'll be off the rooooaaad. My children will suffer. Who can I sue.

    Hopefully Moncrief has something decent to listen to.


  • #136
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,046 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    elperello wrote: »
    Liveline RTE Radio 1 at 1.45 covering this issue.

    Joe - What colour are the lifts?


  • #137
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    reach for the stars wrote: »
    Are they going to compensate people for the time , fuel and trouble of having to attend twice because of their faulty lifts.

    How much do they compensate you for the time, fuel and trouble of having to attend yearly?


  • #138
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    elperello wrote: »
    Liveline RTE Radio 1 at 1.45 covering this issue.

    Tirrible Joe.
    Why is it terrible?
    Dunno Joe, but everyone else is moaning, so thought it was the done thing?


  • #139
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    wonski wrote: »
    The general manager said it can take up to 3 weeks to complete the survey on the lifts.

    Maybe it won't be that bad as they don't use exactly same model as the mot centres in NI.

    IF that 3 weeks is all NCT lifts done.

    Then shouldn't we see lifts coming back into service gradually??????.

    As they are cleared or repaired.


  • #140
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    dkd21 wrote: »
    Infairness the internal decision apparently came yesterday evening to discontinue the lift inspection so I would think it may take some while longer if the Government are to issue any sure fire statements , partially due to the nature of it and legalities involved but also the pace at which they operate..

    The equipment is I believe maintained and serviced by the supplier MAHA and it ''passes'' the yearly insurance inspection so should APPLUS not have enough confidence in that alone ? I would believe they have been let down by the supplier but unfortunately they seem to be bearing the brunt of it.

    From what I've seen the cracks are in an area where they would not be noticed in day to day use either by the operator.

    I see the ''hundreds of million'' euro contract written a lot about . They do turn a profit of several million a year but again they ain't a charity and a private company is there to make money and any other company in this area all do the same DEKRA , TUV , SGS (previous contract) etc all do the same , otherwise you would not get any of these companies to operate here .

    In the meantime the representative of a private company is on the radio telling us what AGS will do on the roadside.

    Applus have a contract with the suppliers of the lifts. If they have a problem they need to take it up with them not pass the buck to their own customers.

    Agree that they are entitled as any company to make a profit.


  • #141
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭kirving


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    This issue is through no fault of the NCT there is a fault in some equipment they use which could result in harm to their workers so they are rightly suspending use of that equipment. This issue only arose yesterday so they can't have a solution in place yet.

    I'm responsible if my car is in a dangerous condition, even if this is due to a manufacturing defect. We have legally required checks every few years to ensure compliance, and to ensure it doesn't get to a dangerous state.

    It absolutely is the fault of NCTS. They didn't bother to do what appear to be basic safety checks on safety critical equipment.


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  • #142
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I'm responsible if my car is in a dangerous condition, even if this is due to a manufacturing defect. We have legally required checks every few years to ensure compliance, and to ensure it doesn't get to a dangerous state.

    It absolutely is the fault of NCTS. They didn't bother to do what appear to be basic safety checks on safety critical equipment.

    How do you detect a hairline crack in steel before it appears??


  • #143
    dkd21
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dkd21


    elperello wrote: »
    In the meantime the representative of a private company is on the radio telling us what AGS will do on the roadside.

    Applus have a contract with the suppliers of the lifts. If they have a problem they need to take it up with them not pass the buck to their own customers.

    Agree that they are entitled as any company to make a profit.

    I have not heard the interview yet , I must take a listen .

    I don't believe myself that they have passed the buck onto the vehicle owner , as there is no direct additional costs incurred because of this. Ok people may have to travel again to the centre but they do open all days of the week and outside business hours. Also the vehicle owner does not have to present the vehicle , others may .

    It is a very uncommon situation to have happened so I think people should be reasonable here


  • #144
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I'm responsible if my car is in a dangerous condition, even if this is due to a manufacturing defect. We have legally required checks every few years to ensure compliance, and to ensure it doesn't get to a dangerous state.

    It absolutely is the fault of NCTS. They didn't bother to do what appear to be basic safety checks on safety critical equipment.

    My understanding is that there are yearly checks carried out on the equipment by the equipment manufacturer. That being the case and so long as the equipment is being used correctly and within its limits how can NCT be at fault.


  • #145
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    dkd21 wrote: »
    I have not heard the interview yet , I must take a listen .

    I don't believe myself that they have passed the buck onto the vehicle owner , as there is no direct additional costs incurred because of this. Ok people may have to travel again to the centre but they do open all days of the week and outside business hours. Also the vehicle owner does not have to present the vehicle , others may .

    It is a very uncommon situation to have happened so I think people should be reasonable here

    There is a level of inconvenience imposed on their customers.
    Some people in rural areas have a considerable distance to travel to a test centre.

    I agree all involved in this uncommon situation should be reasonable.
    If I was inconvenienced I would consider a voucher for a discount on a future test reasonable.


  • #146
    sligojoek
    Registered Users Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    Has anyone from the Garda press office been on?


  • #147
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    sligojoek wrote: »
    Has anyone from the Garda press office been on?

    I didn't hear anyone.
    Nothing on their website or twitter either.


  • #148
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    How do you detect a hairline crack in steel before it appears??

    Xrays, eddy current. Theres a entire industry for it.


  • #149
    dkd21
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dkd21


    elperello wrote: »
    There is a level of inconvenience imposed on their customers.
    Some people in rural areas have a considerable distance to travel to a test centre.

    I agree all involved in this uncommon situation should be reasonable.
    If I was inconvenienced I would consider a voucher for a discount on a future test reasonable.

    And that is without doubt particularly for those rural areas


  • #150
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭kirving


    dkd21 wrote: »
    Infairness the internal decision apparently came yesterday evening to discontinue the lift inspection so I would think it may take some while longer if the Government are to issue any sure fire statements , partially due to the nature of it and legalities involved but also the pace at which they operate..

    ....

    I see the ''hundreds of million'' euro contract written a lot about . They do turn a profit of several million a year but again they ain't a charity and a private company is there to make money and any other company in this area all do the same DEKRA , TUV , SGS (previous contract) etc all do the same , otherwise you would not get any of these companies to operate here .

    The government could issue a pragmatic statement, and mop up the legalities later. Legal red tape is no excuse IMO.

    Agreed, the total value of the contract is a little misleading, but the point is really that it's big business, not some garage. Seems like cutting corners to me.
    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    How do you detect a hairline crack in steel before it appears??

    There are dozens of variations of non destructive testing that could be done, from ultrasonic to UV dye. It's not unreasonable to expect it to be standard on piece of equipment which lifts and then shakes cars over someone's head.

    Fatigue cracking isn't some new concept, and takes years in most cases to develop. Testing has been around a long time and is commonplace in many industries.


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  • #151
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I think the only practical temporary solution is for a limited duration NCT certificate anxd disc to be issued for vehicles that pass the parts of the test that do not require the use of a lift (e .g. three months, to be extended if the lift issue is not resolved within the next month or two).

    This would address the issues of
    insurance validity where a policy contains a condition of having a valid NCT certificate for the insured vehicle
    legal requirement to display a valid NCT disc on a car used in public or face a fine and penalty points

    Nod and a wink assurances from various government bodies or private companies that sure it's all grand are not good enough when contracts and the road traffic legislation are black and white.

    Whether the NCTS system can handle issuing temporary limited duration certificates and discs and the knock on effect for retest requirements including only a partial retest after more than 28 days and the knock on effect on a car's next scheduled periodic test is something that needs to be looked at.


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