Cardinal Sin Committed - No Oil!!

iqmdublin · 17-01-2020 11:53am

walked it home last week! just been away for a few days since.
seems the plan is to take it apart myself and get old school mechanics to give a diagnosis

The Tetrarch · 17-01-2020 10:45pm

Why not give it to a mechanic first?

Years ago my brother decided to change the oil on his Honda CD175.
One drop came out. He "topped it up" and it ran well.
After a few days we insisted he change the oil again and this time change the oil filter.

iqmdublin · 17-01-2020 11:02pm

initial diagnosis was from a mechanic to the effect of - its wrecked, change the engine. That after listening to it trying to turn over and there was definitely a grinding/clunky noise.
got an old school mechanic to listen to it at home (the oul fella), and immediately his response was - 'you're taking it apart, its making a knocking noise'.....

mechanics I've all rang are running away from anything like this and lecturing me about the need to throw the bike away and buy another one.
and the only one actually up for the repair job is quoting anywhere up to 1,200 to get it back right.
thinking, with the oul fella and another old school local mechanic (who takes apart outboard motor engines and car engines for fun...), I should be able to get a fix on whats wrong, sort it, and slap it back together.

Worst case scenario, I'll have tried!

There honestly wasn't any mechanic I spoke to who was in any was enthusiastic about even looking at it!

The Tetrarch · 18-01-2020 6:13pm

In a way I envy you.
You might not get it back in good shape but you will learn a lot about engines.

iqmdublin · 21-01-2020 1:32am

I know this might sound odd coming from the eejit who didn't fill up the oil in the first place, but I'm intending to get it back 98% - 100% !!
Speaking to the local old school mechanic, he's given me places to go to get certain jobs done by pro's who know what they're doing.

It just depends on how much damage there is there.

I see the bill going up to the same price as it would be to put that Lifan Engine in it, but at the end of the day, its been kept original and I'll clean and tart up all the parts as I'm going and taking it apart.

Don't be envious, gonna be a long job!

Clearing out the shed at the moment to make space for it...! : /

CJhaughey · 21-01-2020 10:04am

Take the engine out and make a stand for it, then you will be able to work at a sensible height and in comfort.
You don't need the whole bike in the shed, just the engine.
Engine stands are simple to make and make working on a bigger engine much easier.

The Tetrarch · 22-01-2020 2:57pm

I bought Classic Bike magazine this morning (issue #481 February 2020).
It has a four page article in the Classic Workshop section (page 102) about a specialist company I Cleenz Machines.
It is well worth reading: vapour blasting; grit blasting; ultra-sonic washing.
https://www.icmhome.org.uk/

iqmdublin · 28-01-2020 10:42pm

So!!

First of all, I've lost respect for all the mechanics who wouldn't even touch this job.
All saying the same thing, oh its a lot of work to get the engine out and apart etc etc
It took me (someone who's never done this before) no time at all to take the engine out of the frame, up on a table, top end apart etc and to get the oul fella to have a look and diagnose the problem.

The top end is fine, the problem is in one cylinder, the piston has give in it, so it needs a bottom end rebuild if I was to go down that road.
This is expensive and the job isnt guaranteed obviously, so prettymuch everyone agrees that its not a great option

Still lots of other options as regards getting another engine or a bottom end even, but my point is, diagnosing the problem doesn't take much time or skill, and I'm amazed that mechanics wouldn't go near it. Should take less than 2 hours to do what I did to someone with experience

zubair · 28-01-2020 11:27pm

iqmdublin wrote: »

Still lots of other options as regards getting another engine or a bottom end even, but my point is, diagnosing the problem doesn't take much time or skill, and I'm amazed that mechanics wouldn't go near it. Should take less than 2 hours to do what I did to someone with experience

zubair wrote: »

The bottom end has probably gone on your bike. Call a few shops to see what can be done. I had an engine swap done for €600 years ago when a motor blew on an old bike.

You're right it doesn't take long to diagnose it, I did it without even looking at the bike. The dealer is going to give you the best option for your money and work they can stand over. While a dealer would diagnose it much quicker, you'd be down 100 bucks already for labour and that hasn't gotten you any nearer fixing it. If the bottom end is gone I'd try and find a new motor for it. I think that's what the dealers told you too.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Everyone loves a project.

iqmdublin · 29-01-2020 12:33am

zubair wrote: »

You're right it doesn't take long to diagnose it, I did it without even looking at the bike. The dealer is going to give you the best option for your money and work they can stand over. While a dealer would diagnose it much quicker, you'd be down 100 bucks already for labour and that hasn't gotten you any nearer fixing it. If the bottom end is gone I'd try and find a new motor for it. I think that's what the dealers told you too.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Everyone loves a project.

If it was just 100 to diagnose, I would have done that!
No one would touch it! One guy in Rathgar was talking about 8 hours labour to take the engine apart.....!!
I just wanted to find out was is salvageable; I’d heard of stories of people not needing to do much repair work at all for similar things, and got out of it for 200/300.

I think people now are far too quick to say - ‘get a new bike’, ‘get a new engine’...! Without even giving a repair diagnosis a try!
For all everyone knew it could have been minor top end work needed.

Same thing happened last year with my car, mechanic wrote it off cause it needed a new turbo etc etc. Turns out he was wrong, turbo repair place looked at it and gave it the thumbs up. And car is still running great for a fraction of what he quoted it would take

Happened to me with a guitar this year as well, 3 places wrote it off because they weren’t able to find the problem (dead sound on the high E on the 2nd to 5th fret),
Old school guy in Rathfarnham looked at it and reglued the frets, got it back sounding perfect!

Had a few experiences like this, so I’m just not so quick to write something off, that’s all!

Thanks for the advice though, will have a ponder what to do and might put in an engine from another bike!

iqmdublin · 29-01-2020 12:41am

zubair wrote: »

While a dealer would diagnose it much quicker, you'd be down 100 bucks already for labour and that hasn't gotten you any nearer fixing it.

Just on this point, was quoted 150 to just remove an engine, not even take the top end apart.

So I’ve removed it already, prepping it for whatever it next, and also diagnosed the problem which lets me know exactly where I stand with the old engine, I would see that as a few steps nearer to fixing it!

CJhaughey · 29-01-2020 9:47am

A good secondhand crank might be a decent call, is there any piston damage/scuffing etc?
Amazing there is no topend damage, what is the cam running in bearings or on plain metal?

iqmdublin · 03-02-2020 8:45pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

A good secondhand crank might be a decent call, is there any piston damage/scuffing etc?
Amazing there is no topend damage, what is the cam running in bearings or on plain metal?

asked the oulfella (he's only the use of one arm after a stroke, so hasn't gone at it himself properly), he did a few little tests himself and without taking it apart said his guess would be plain metal, but it looked like it was all in good shape.

only one end of the big end is gone (if that makes sense) and seems to be surprising him too!

brought it to another mechanic today to get an opinion and the opinion was he didn't even want to look or help me diagnose things to get some idea of price! typical! had it in the boot of the car and all.

gonna go to the other old school mechanic locally and see what he has to say....

Another question actually, would anyone be able to point me in the direction of a cheapish paint sprayer?

Got quoted 200 and 250 by two different places, just for the tank

seems a lot no?

Interceptor · 04-02-2020 12:49pm

€200-€250 for a tank spray is about right - I'm sure you could get cheaper but it will look shiite. Have you rang every breaker in the country to see if you can source a replacement engine for the bike? Fluting around with engine rebuilds will only result in an unreliable result.

lalababa · 04-02-2020 11:37pm

I'd be interested in knowing where the bike breakers are especially MunsterðŸ™‚ðŸ™‚

H_Lime · 05-02-2020 6:57am

lalababa wrote: »

I'd be interested in knowing where the bike breakers are especially Munster&#55357;&#56898;&#55357;&#56898;

Pt down ringaskiddy direction.

lalababa · 05-02-2020 10:44am

H_Lime wrote: »

Pt down ringaskiddy direction.

Was there years ago, do they have much stuff, cause I couldn't even get passable Suzuki indicators!

iqmdublin · 18-02-2020 12:17am

Quick update:

1) Got the Lifan 250 replica engine, and exhaust.

2) Ordering a new chain and sprockets, cleaning up the bike etc (maybe spraying the tank)

3) Ordering a gasket set and putting the Yamaha casings on the new engine (900km on it only)

Gonna strip the old engine with a friend and maybe fix it up in time to get it running condition again (as it only had 29,000km on it), or if its really not worth doing, will strip it anyway, have a good look and get to understand engines a bit better.

And that seems to get me back on with things fairly cheap.

Cityspares was offering €100 for the whole bike as scrap, which is silly because even the tank on ebay would get €100, plus a newly covered seat etc.
And when I'm replacing it, will aim for similar I think, lots of top condition virago 250's/535's in england.

Thanks for the help/advise from yiz all anyhow!

The Tetrarch · 18-02-2020 6:17pm

iqmdublin wrote: »

Cityspares was offering €100 for the whole bike as scrap, which is silly

Not to them. :cool:
I read an article in a motorbike mag recently saying to make a bike from new spares would cost three to four times the cost of the bike new.
Years ago I worked in a company that bought new parts people had on their shelves and didn't want (not motorcycles). Our boss typically offered "10 cents on the dollar" or 1/10 of list price. After a bit of haggling we probably paid about 15% of list price, and then sold them over a year or two for about four times our cost or more.

galwaytt · 21-02-2020 10:39am

iqmdublin wrote: »

Quick update:

1) Got the Lifan 250 replica engine, and exhaust.

2) Ordering a new chain and sprockets, cleaning up the bike etc (maybe spraying the tank)

3) Ordering a gasket set and putting the Yamaha casings on the new engine (900km on it only)

Gonna strip the old engine with a friend and maybe fix it up in time to get it running condition again (as it only had 29,000km on it), or if its really not worth doing, will strip it anyway, have a good look and get to understand engines a bit better.

And that seems to get me back on with things fairly cheap.

Cityspares was offering €100 for the whole bike as scrap, which is silly because even the tank on ebay would get €100, plus a newly covered seat etc.
And when I'm replacing it, will aim for similar I think, lots of top condition virago 250's/535's in england.

Thanks for the help/advise from yiz all anyhow!

Sounds like a good way out, to not drag it out too long as well: how much did the Lifan engine cost you ?

Cardinal Sin Committed - No Oil!!

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