How to get published

pickarooney · 22-06-2010 8:27am #1

Many of us have either written an undiscovered masterpiece or are in the process of producing the next great work of Irish fiction. The question that usually arises next is what to with the hundred of pages you've lovingly put together over the years in order to be able to share your magnum opus with the world.

Publishing industry analyst Eoin Purcell has kindly agreed to come onto boards and answer all the questions you might have on getting your work published, from an industry insider point of view.

I'll let Eoin tell you a little about himself and then put him in the hot seat.

Huge thanks to Darragh, and of course Eoin, for making this possible.

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 9:01am

Hello folks,

Hope I can help with your queries.

To give you a sense of where I am coming from I started in publishing in 2005 at Nonsuch Ireland (now the History Press Ireland). I was lucky enough to be one of three graduates hired to set up and run the Irish imprint of a larger UK based publisher. it was very exciting and gave me something of a baptism of fire in publishing. We brought the list from 3 books in the first few months to 32 in the year I left the company, 2007.

I joined Mercier Press in April 2007 and worked with them until August 2009. There I commissioned dozens of books across many many genres, from fiction and children's to business, history and sport.

Now I work for myself as a publishing consultant and a publisher (on a very small scale) in my own right. I run Irish Publishing News a news and features website about Irish publishing.

So, ask away, I hope to check in as often as possible but don't be too worried if it takes a day or so sometimes for a final answer!

Eoin

cobsie · 22-06-2010 9:18am

Hi Eoin,

Thanks for coming on the boards to chat.

I have two quick questions: Do editors actually read the slush pile?

and

Many publishing houses suggest submissions are accompanied by a synopsis or outline - how detailed should that get? Is this where the real 'pitch' for the work should be?

Thanks a mil.

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 9:53am

Cosbie,

See the answers below. I've tried to answer by following the process of submission, review rejection/acceptance.

Submissions
It really depends on what publisher you are submitting to whether or not they read the slushpile. ALWAYS check the submissions guidelines for the publisher and follow them. They are there for a reason, probably to do with the in-house systems and resources. No matter how unique you believe your submission to be, the publisher will not take kindly to a submission that ignores freely given advice on how to submit.

Especially for larger publishers in the UK and Ireland, direct submissions are losing out to agent submitted manuscripts. Publishing slots are limited and the submission rate so high that publishers are narrowing channels to trusted agents to avoid overload and enable them to reduce headcount.

When they do have slushpiles, they are often read by more junior staff and so if a manuscript takes a reader's fancy, it can take longer to get approved and have less weight behind it. Still, some books do make it out of slushpiles at large publishers, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Smaller publishers and some imprints of larger publishers in the UK and Ireland, will still accept submissions directly. I have found the following to be true in my time, but then the houses I worked for, published more non-fiction than fiction:

- For fiction the chances are lower that you will be plucked from the slush pile because the volume is so high and the publishing slots so restricted.
- For non-fiction because the volume is lower have a better success rate.

Synopses
Which brings me to the synopsis. Follow the submission guidelines. IF they don't have any call the office and ask and then follow that. Make sure they accept your genre as well otherwise your energy is wasted.

I often didn't read synopses, feeling that writers wasted too much effort in them and not enough on the opening lines of their submission. HOWEVER I stress that was a personal perspective and most publishers will want a one-page clear and concise summary of your work.

What Happens At The Reader level
When working through slushpiles I was ruthless and though most editors will fib and say they gave a manuscript time the reality is they don't have it to give.

I often read the first page and if it wasn't up to scratch I would skip ahead and read some more a few pages in hoping that the writer had buried the good stuff, they rarely had. Max time for a rejected submission that failed to grab 10 minutes. After that I would send the manuscript back with a short note. it is rare that an editor has the time to respond individually to a submission unless it came close to publishing.

If it did grab me, I would read more of the text and decide
1) Could we SELL it (we are there to make money after all)?
2) Could I convince the publishing committee that we SHOULD publish it?
3) How MUCH would it cost to produce?
4) Would it get MEDIA attention?
5) What's the AUTHORS story?
6) Have we sold to similar markets before?
7) Is this worth a SLOT on my program?

Then if it answered those questions I would run a Profit and Loss projection, talk with the author, bring the idea to committee, get it approved, negotiate a contract and agree delivery and publication dates. All the time thinking about sales material, possible covers and sales promotion.

Eoin

pickarooney · 22-06-2010 10:32am

1. This one is probably a piece-of-sting question but roughly how many copies of a work fiction would you project you'd need to sell in order to make commissioning a manuscript worthwhile?

2. What's the best way to find an agent that will have both time to read your submisison and the influence to get it read by a publisher?

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:05am

Good question.

I guess there are two answers (maybe even three).

1) Unsupported Fiction
by that I mean fiction that is not supported by an Arts Council grant. Some publishers are funded every year and have both program (the books) and core costs (staff/admin/etc) covered. Other (like those I worked for) only get a block grant to fund books. That is then assigned to certain titles. If a title is clearly commercial then arts council funding wouldn't be assign.

When I say clearly commercial I'd posit that projected sales would need to be in excess of 3000 units to justify publication without funding. That may sound low but it s few enough titles in Ireland that sell that well certainly fewer than 1000.

2) Supported Fiction
While the grant or funding would support the cost of production, sales would need to be enough to justify the time spent and provide some kind of return on investment and if an arts council work sold over 1500 units (again no mean feat) then you'd be happy with its performance. Sometimes of course they will do much better than that, but rarely.

3) Other reasons
You might publish a book for sentiment, for pr, because it is good and warrants publication, but rarely enough and generally if those things are true, a book will have some commercial appeal to it.

Thats the sales side. For a longer explanation of how the Irish market operates, try the series I wrote a whiel ago on Success In Irish publishing;
http://irishpublishingnews.com/2010/01/04/publishing-success-in-ireland-part-one/

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:10am

In terms of finding an agent the best way is to track down one that works a lot in your genre. That's easily done by reading the rights pages of magazines like The Bookseller and Publishers Weekly or websites like Publishers Marketplace. Then follow their submissions guidelines and hope they like your material.

It's also a good idea to find a few writers and agents who work in your genre and follow their blogs or twitter feeds, research the genre and keep up to speed with trends and news. Don't necessarily tailor your work to those trends but know about the industry.

In short, take seriously the task of finding an agent, especially if you write fiction.

Eoin

pickarooney · 22-06-2010 11:14am

Does it make sense for an Irish writer to approach an Irish agent/publisher?
If a writer has grand notions of being the next Stephenie Meyer, should she do what she can to get a local publishing deal and try get an international syndication (not sure that word applies to books!) if successful or go straight to a UK or US publisher?

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:19am

Most Irish Agents have significant contacts in the UK and US so going with one of them would not necessarily hamper your career. Commercial Women's Fiction writers for instance have been well served by Irish agents or UK based Irish agents.

However for certain genres I'd urge an ambitious author to look further afield too.

This is especially true for genres like Young Adult, Science Fiction, Fantasy and Romance.

As I said before, research is the key. Find someone you know you could work with and make sure when you approach them you do so the right way. A lot of the publishing industry outside of Ireland has embraced Twitter (full of hot air us publishing folk) and that's a great way to track conversations among agents, publishers and writers!

But not the only way either.

Eoin

pickarooney · 22-06-2010 11:25am

A fairly straightforward question (I think), but one that comes up time and again:

What, if any, is the recommended word count for a first novel submission and should a writer send in an entire manuscript or just some selected chapters?

pathway33 · 22-06-2010 11:27am

Hi Eoin,

I received a reply to my submission which stated 'it was unsuitable for our current publishing programme....the work may well be suitable for another publisher'

Is this a standard reply or do they really think it's suitable for another publisher? Maybe they were just letting me down gently

Thanks,

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:32am

There is no standard wordcount. But agents and publishers sometimes indicate guidelines. try and stick close to those. If you write for a genre, find out the average for books of that kind. Shoot for that.

The best guide is to follow the submissions policy by publisher. If they don't have one, but say they accept submissions, call and check.

If they do ask for three chapters, make it 1,2 and 3. Editors don't want 7, 10 and 23. How on earth could they judge a book that way. It just says you don't have confidence in 1,2 and 3! if YOU don't have confidence in 1,2 and 3, rewite them until you do!

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:33am

It sounds like a standard reply, but sometimes that may well be the case!

For instance if you sent fiction to a non-fiction publisher or teenage fiction to a children's publisher!

It is important to be sure about who you are submitting material to and what you are submitting to them!

pathway33 · 22-06-2010 11:36am

Eoinp wrote: »

It sounds like a standard reply, but sometimes that may well be the case!

For instance if you sent fiction to a non-fiction publisher or teenage fiction to a children's publisher!

It is important to be sure about who you are submitting material to and what you are submitting to them!

It was a fiction publisher and I submitted fiction....so it's looking pretty good for me right

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:42am

On the one hand I'd caution against taking rejection too personally. There are lots of writers and very few publishing slots.

If you do get rejected (and remember many, many people, even now famous authors have been before you), take some time to read the text yourself. Ask yourself if the submission was up to scratch. If it wasn't then your bad, work to fix it. If you think it was, submit again to another publisher or agent and see what comes of it.

If rejection is ongoing and multiple , it might be time to set that work aside and try another novel.

Or, it may be time to get outside help from an unbiased source (your family, friends and lovers will totally lie to you about the quality of your work. Even if they don't lie, they won't be able to see whats wrong because they aren't professional editors or publishers or agents). Try a local writing group maybe, or hire a professional editor to read and suggest problems, make sure you tell them to tell you if it stinks. Better to know and work from there than for them to lie to you and you waste your effort.

Eoin

cobsie · 22-06-2010 11:44am

I write short stories. I hear conflicting things about the state of the art form: some pundits say they are too difficult to find an audience for, so few collections are published.

Others say that short stories are resurgent, because people have less time to read, with competing demands on their attention, so stories are becoming more popular.

Any thoughts on either of those views? Is magazine submission still the best way publish stories?

pickarooney · 22-06-2010 11:46am

Have you any idea of the rates professional editors charge and is it a good idea to run your manuscript by an editor before looking for an agent?

dmaxontour · 22-06-2010 11:49am

Hi,

This may be way off your area, but how would the approach with a film script differ? Do the same publishers and agents deal with scripts and novels? Where and how do you find them?

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 11:58am

On the one hand
Short stories are making a comeback both in print and online. There is some talk that short stories are better suited to shortening time spent reading and the increasingly mobile consumption of media.

On the other
Print is still the lions share of revenue for most publishers and short story collections rarely sell well. This almost automatically (in Ireland) puts them in the Supported book category.

How to get published
Magazine submissions are definitely still a good way forward as are competitions. That said, I think especially for short story writers blogging and sharing your material is a good way to try and build audience and following. It takes time (as anything worthwhile almost always does), but the pay of can be considerable.

If you do blog I think it would be worthwhile to also experiment with places like Smashwords where you can self-publish and sell works at low prices or indeed, give them away for free.

But then, I'm a bit radical on the whole free issue!

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 12:01pm

I honestly have never dealt with movie scripts so I'll cry ignorance on that one! I think Lisa Richards do handle scripts though, but call them to check!

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 12:02pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Have you any idea of the rates professional editors charge and is it a good idea to run your manuscript by an editor before looking for an agent?

Anything from €25-70 depending on the editor and the book. In terms of the fee, if you are just trying to get a reading and an assessment the lower end of that scale is where you'd be looking.

Eoin

cobsie · 22-06-2010 12:23pm

Are there some golden rules, in terms of writing (as opposed to the process of submission) that you think you could share? What makes something stand out, in your mind?

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 12:29pm

Not sure I'm qualified to offer golden rules!

but for what it's worth I'll offer these thoughts!

Non-fiction
1)Clarity, clarity, Clarity!
2) Good structure and a sense of the narrative of a story as well as the facts.

Fiction
Much harder because it can be so subjective but
1) A good story
2) Interesting characters

The Mad Hatter · 22-06-2010 2:15pm

What are the pitfalls to look out for when you're trying to get published? I know in the music industry in the US, newly signed bands are often paid a pittance and then forced to pay all their expenses from it - is there anything like that that aspiring writers should be careful of?

Thanks a million for answering these questions, by the way.

ToasterSparks · 22-06-2010 3:50pm

Hi Eoin,

Thank you so much for answering all these questions, your advice and knowledge is much appreciated.

I've managed to get a couple of kid's short stories published in a well-known Irish weekly magazine. I'm thinking about writing a collection of short stories and trying to get them published in a book.

My question is - how hard would this be? Is there a market for younger kids' (meaning ages 5 to 10) books right now? I'm aware that many kid's books are accompanied by wonderful illustrations too, and if an illustrator is something that one would need to find?

I have the ideas, I'm just a little clueless on the publishing side of things.

22-06-2010 3:58pm

Hi Eoin.

Slightly different question, if you're ok with answering it.

I've always wanted to work in publishing, specifically in (initially) proof-reading and editing work. I'm currently self-employed in a role that requires lots of proof-reading but not in the literary arena.

Any tips or tricks for getting started?

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 4:37pm

No problem in answering, feel that having good information helps the industry as much as anything else!

Royalties
The biggest pitfall is a bad royalty rate. In Ireland no advance isn't necessarily that strange so don't be too put out if you are not offered one. Please take this with a liberal dose of salt. I'm referring to a TRADE FICTION/NONFICTION book. Academic or niche titles may well require subvention or funding from the author or institution, but in general these rates are close to average.

Average rates for royalty are between 7.5%-15% NET RECEIPTS (check that by this they mean Recommended Retail Price - Retailer Discount and NOTHING else otherwise I'd argue their NET is unfair on the author).

You will see offers anywhere around that % NET range and a good contract will have a split whereby the royalty increases somewhere in the 3-6K range and again somewhere in the 8-12K range to reward the author for a big selling title.

Obviously the key issue for net is what discount the book gets sold at!

If you are offered a GROSS RECEIPTS rate it will generally be lower in % terms, often as low as 5% but also may have a discount clause of for instance saying something like when discounts exceed 50% the royalty will be 4/5 of the prevailing rate (5% GROSS * 4/5 = 4% GROSS) and where royalties exceed 55% the royalty will be 3/5 of the prevailing rate (5% Gross * 3/5 = 3% GROSS)

Again in a good deal I'd expect to see offers that have a split whereby the royalty increases somewhere in the 3-6K range and again somewhere in the 8-12K range to reward the author for a big selling title.

The major issue here is that most markets will be over 50% especially in this day and age so you have to watch out for those clauses. if you have a significant deal on offer, call an agent, they'll take you on board then (lol) and will earn their 10-15% of your advance/royalty.

Other pitfalls
Watch foreign rights clauses. Be sure you want a publisher to have all rights. You may wish to retain language rights if you by any chance have foreign publishing links, or maybe even US or European English rights for some reason. Think everything through. Then again, it may have no relevance to you!

Keep an eye on ebook rights. Nowadays 25% is the minimum you should be getting. if they won't match that, threaten to withhold and self publish the ebook version, the markets small in Ireland right now, but not further afield.

Be sure you know the reversion clauses well. IE How the book reverts to you if they fail to keep it in print. You should also check how IN PRINT is define so that PRINT ON DEMAND or EBOOK's are not the only arbiters.

Finally you should watch out for tricky clauses on payment dates. Because of it is structured a certain way you might not see a royalty for 18 months after publication and that'd hardly be fair!

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 4:50pm

00112984 wrote: »

Hi Eoin.

Slightly different question, if you're ok with answering it.

I've always wanted to work in publishing, specifically in (initially) proof-reading and editing work. I'm currently self-employed in a role that requires lots of proof-reading but not in the literary arena.

Any tips or tricks for getting started?

Yes,

This is easier than you'd think.

The first thing to say is, if you are serious it might be worthwhile getting a professional accreditation and writing a proofreading cv. Then get in touch with the irish publishers offering your services!

Outsourcing is a pretty big part of the industry here and it will only grow as companies lay off full time staff!

Eoin

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 4:57pm

ToasterSparks wrote: »

Hi Eoin,

Thank you so much for answering all these questions, your advice and knowledge is much appreciated.

I've managed to get a couple of kid's short stories published in a well-known Irish weekly magazine. I'm thinking about writing a collection of short stories and trying to get them published in a book.

My question is - how hard would this be? Is there a market for younger kids' (meaning ages 5 to 10) books right now? I'm aware that many kid's books are accompanied by wonderful illustrations too, and if an illustrator is something that one would need to find?

I have the ideas, I'm just a little clueless on the publishing side of things.

First off 5-10 is far too broad and cuts across a very segmented market.
See here (http://www.obrien.ie/category.cfm?categoryID=23) for an idea of how O'Brien Press, one of Ireland's largest publishers for children split their list and here (http://littleisland.ie/) for a sense of what Little Island (a new children's and YA imprint) does.

Not all children's books have illustrations and in general those that do will either be the work of an author/illustrator or the illustrations will be commissioned by the publisher (who will also pay for them).

One word of warning, illustrated books are expensive, sell for low prices and are very very hard to market unless you are Julia Donaldson or Oliver Jeffers. It's a tough market and most Irish publishers cannot afford to compete in the space.

My advice, write a good book, submit and let the publisher worry about the package!

Eoin

Antilles · 22-06-2010 6:21pm

How much editing goes into an average book that you have worked on before it goes to market? Does comparing one's own (non-professionally edited) work to a published novel give any real idea of how much reworking the piece needs, or is it a waste of time?

Eoinp · 22-06-2010 6:48pm

Waste of time!

Depends on the book. Some have had months of work others weeks, some just a week or so, but editing isn't the only process and the whole commissoning to publication process takes a fair whack of time regardless of the book!

That said, reading other books in similar genres is a good way of judging the overall standard of your writing!
Eoin

How to get published

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