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Denver Broncos Thread

  • 10-08-2011 2:13pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭


    Probably the only decent QB controversy so far this year pits Orton vs Tebow in a battle of who will be Denver's number one. A very strange situation with Tebow being in charge of pre lockout workouts with every indication that Orton would be traded away to Miami once a CBA was signed.

    Didn't take long for that trade to break down and suddenly Orton went from unwanted to Number 1.

    Now obviously each guy has his own strengths and weaknesses. But what is the general opinion of people on this board about the whole situation? What camp do people stand in?

    Personally I support Orton, Denver (now offence to any fans :p ) is quite a poor team overall. Brandon Lloyd their star WR made a breakout season WITH Orton throwing him the ball not Tebow. If Tebow had of started last season would Llyod have made the Pro Bowl? It's not like Denver's receiving corp's is that great and it doesn't help when your running game is non existent when your star RB is injured for most of the year.

    This is a team that is falling apart due to it's crap rushing game and a woeful defence that can't get to the QB, IMO it is not down to QB that Denver is struggling.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    I'm going with Orton too. Tebow can sit and continue to learn, it won't do him any harm. The likes of Rodgers, Cassel etc. had a good few years learning behind a proven QB in Favre and Brady. Tebow is even more raw than these guys and still needs a lot of learning in my opinion.

    Orton is a proven starter in the NFL. He'll give your receivers the best chance of catching balls and thus the best chance of you winning games. I'm still not fully sure that Tebow will make it as an NFL QB but the more learning he can do behind a good Quarterback is gonna increase his chances exponentially.

    Denver with Orton have a chance of playoffs in a weak division. Denver with Tebow will probably be picking in the top 5 next year. Then what are they going to do? They're going to rush out and draft a quarterback and they're no better off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    I dislike all the focus on the QB. Most important position yes but Orton was one their best players last season but the team had a losing season and so the QB gets blamed
    I read lots of teams forums and some of their fans are way too harsh on Orton, almost hysterical

    Right at this moment if I were John Fox and it's Gameweek One I'd have Orton as starter, best QB on the team

    However he has one year left on his deal so you either lock him up or you trade him. If he plays this year and Broncos miss the playoffs then you're back to where you are now and still don't know enough about Tebow.

    If I was Miami I certainly think he's worth a third and you may get him for a fourth. I don't know why the deal fell through but I think it may still go ahead

    Regarding their running game and defence, no better man then John Fox to work on this and the signings of two DT's and Von Miller and McGahee will plug their main holes
    Dumbervill back too.

    Broncos will have a good season and a decent shot at the playoffs


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭Juan Pablo


    Orton is a solid starting QB and was too valuable to trade for Denver vs what they were going to get from Miami. I can see him being the No1 for the year, which will upset those in Denver who want Tebow time. Short section on Sports Centre last night regarding this, felt that Tebow isn't there yet. With Orton starting, the like of Brandon Llyods stock has risen from a fantasy perspective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    mikemac wrote: »
    I dislike all the focus on the QB. Most important position yes but Orton was one their best players last season but the team had a losing season and so the QB gets blamed
    I read lots of teams forums and some of their fans are way too harsh on Orton, almost hysterical

    Right at this moment if I were John Fox and it's Gameweek One I'd have Orton as starter, best QB on the team

    However he has one year left on his deal so you either lock him up or you trade him. If he plays this year and Broncos miss the playoffs then you're back to where you are now and still don't know enough about Tebow.

    If I was Miami I certainly think he's worth a third and you may get him for a fourth. I don't know why the deal fell through but I think it may still go ahead

    Regarding their running game and defence, no better man then John Fox to work on this and the signings of two DT's and Von Miller and McGahee will plug their main holes
    Dumbervill back too.

    Broncos will have a good season and a decent shot at the playoffs

    Exactly if you look at Denvers stats for last season you'll immediately see the problem lies with the Defence and the Running Game. Their passing stats were some of the best in the League for crying out loud! Think it's just easy to blame a QB when you have a cult following for someone like Tebow sitting behind Orton.

    Honestly Tebow to me is a perfect fit for Miami. Miami had it's greatest success running the Wild Cat and here is a QB who can do that by default while giving you a okay passing game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Denver's passing game (and Orton's by reasoning) was largely inflated due to the presence of Josh McDaniels. He makes average quarterbacks look good, and good quarterbacks look even better. For me, Kyle Orton is an average QB. I'd be shocked if he put up anywhere near the same numbers as last year if he starts this year.

    This is about more than the better player though, and considering everything, I agree with what spiralism said in the free agents/trades thread - Tebow must start. If Orton starts and does well, you have a situation at the end of the season where Orton will likely leave anyway, and the Broncos may not be in a position to pick one of the big 3 QBs in the draft. If he does poorly, then you still have an untested Tebow on the bench and then you've another QB controversy - go with Tebow from 2012 or draft one of the big 3? It makes sense to go with Tebow now. That way, if he does well, congrats - you have your franchise QB. If not, then you draft one of Luck, Jones or Barkley.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 41 AlanPat


    Denver's problems run so much deeper than QB, until we can stop a team on defence, it wont make a difference who is behind centre.
    Having said that I'm a Tebow fan and would like to see him start, nothing against Orton, but the team is a work in progress for the next few years.
    I don't see the team getting anywhere near playoff football this season.
    Orton isn't the answer long term, he's in the final year of his contract, will be gone after this season. Find out if Tebow is the future, if he is then great, if not, then it's back to the draft.

    All McD had to do was come in and sort out the defence, but no, his ego had to bring the whole organisation to it's knees. Thanks. (End Rant).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Orton is better but I'd go with Tebow. You drafted him number 1, time to find out if he can cut it. If he can't then you'll be in prime position to draft Luck next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    Tebow might steal a few goal line touchdowns or grab a few first downs with a QB sneak but i dont rate his throwing ability from what i've seen (not very much admittedly) but I honestly think he's not good enough for a starting slot ahead of Orton.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,075 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Orton is a far better QB than Tebow will ever be.

    You don't need to be a Denver insider to realise that Tebow must not have been making the right noises before camp and in practice thus far for him not to be named starter. If he was demonstrating any sort of decent progression he would be in there. On Football Today they implied that Tebow does not exactly have the confidence of the players too.

    Tebow is being discussed because he was a god at the college level. His skills do not transfer well, he shouldn't have been drafted in the first round, and he will never be a starting QB in the NFL.

    Yeah, maybe Denver should throw him in anyway to get ahead in the Luck sweepstakes, but at the same time if he is looking way off the pace in practice every day, you can't blame them for playing the markedly better player.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,075 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Rick Reilly being straight up about the whole thing:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6848493

    Nice kid, great athlete, blah, blah. Useless QB.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,448 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I watched all of Tebow's starts last season and I think he definitely deserves his shot at the starting job. Even in the game against the Chargers where he didn't play that well he still inspired all those around him to perform to their very best.

    Orton is pretty ordinary with a career QB rating of 79. He has been better under McDaniels but he is still only in the mid 80s during that time, he is awful when pressured. Tebow only got three games last season but in that time he lifted the home crowd, inspired his teammates and played well for the most part.

    Now I'm a huge Tebow fan but I'm not one to keep saying a player deserves more opportunities if he hasn't shown anything but Tebow has and he could be a great one.

    Any of these so called 'experts' who say differently are idiots in my book. Until he gets a legitimate shot you can't say that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    The only decent QB controversy? Don't know about that, John Beck vs Rex Grossman has the potential to rival Jimmy vs Timmy's cripple fight in South Park.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    eagle eye wrote: »

    Any of these so called 'experts' who say differently are idiots in my book. Until he gets a legitimate shot you can't say that.

    What is a legitimate shot in your book?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,448 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    What is a legitimate shot in your book?
    When he is told he is the starter and its up to himself to keep it. He got the last 3 games last year and based on them I think he certainly deserves that shot now. If you remember Orton played horribly when his OL got worse, Tebow stepped in with that same OL and did pretty well and a lot better than Orton.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    eagle eye wrote: »
    When he is told he is the starter and its up to himself to keep it. He got the last 3 games last year and based on them I think he certainly deserves that shot now. If you remember Orton played horribly when his OL got worse, Tebow stepped in with that same OL and did pretty well and a lot better than Orton.

    But you admitted it yourself that Orton only looked good because he was in McDaniels system, now obviously McDaniels was fired when Tebow started but that doesn't mean that the play book was suddenly ripped up and a new one made for 4 games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,448 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Stev_o wrote: »
    But you admitted it yourself that Orton only looked good because he was in McDaniels system, now obviously McDaniels was fired when Tebow started but that doesn't mean that the play book was suddenly ripped up and a new one made for 4 games.
    I'm saying that when it collapsed under Orton that Tebow stepped in and there was a huge improvement immediately. Not just Tebow but you could see the reaction of the fans to him and the players too. That time when they came back from 17-0 down at halftime to the Texans. He goes running up after scoring the TD to take the lead and celebrates with the D who are going back on the field after the kickoff. They come up with an interception, you gotta give him credit there for livening things up for those guys. Did his actions inspire them? We don't know for sure but I thought at the time that if this was my teammate I'd want to go out and finish the game for him right there and then they did just that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    eagle eye wrote: »
    When he is told he is the starter and its up to himself to keep it. He got the last 3 games last year and based on them I think he certainly deserves that shot now. If you remember Orton played horribly when his OL got worse, Tebow stepped in with that same OL and did pretty well and a lot better than Orton.

    Played well? Firstly He was average at best. Secondly he looked better than Orton because he had the athletic ability to get away from the pocket but this didn't help his passing game. So the O-line argument doesn't fly.

    Thirdly, Take away his running ability and no one would rate him. The only team he put up solid numbers on were the Texans and lets face their secondary is one of the worst in the NFL. In fact his QB rating was only helped by the game he played mid season were he completed 1/1 for 3 yds and a TD giving him a 100% passer rating and a solid QB rating 118 i think.

    He is an average passer of the football at best and unless he learns how to use his feet better in the pocket and learn to throw a football better he will always be average and will be worse than Orton.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,075 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    EE, do some reading. The consensus from observers is that he has looked really awful in practice thus far, and Orton is miles ahead of him. Infact, there is a good chance that he is third on the depth chart behind Quinn on opening day.

    You got to earn a shot. If he is regressing in camp, he doesn't deserve to start. He might sell a ton of jerseys, and he'll always have a following no matter what because of what he achieved in College - but he is not an NFL standard QB.

    For reference, ridiculously dominant running college QBs often don't pan out at the next level. Particularly when they don't gain any exposure to a pro style offense.

    Tebow is struggling with a 3 step drop, and can't throw real well. All the heart and grit and perfect sound-bytes in the world ain't going to overcome those problems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,075 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    The only decent QB controversy? Don't know about that, John Beck vs Rex Grossman has the potential to rival Jimmy vs Timmy's cripple fight in South Park.

    cq23R.jpg

    Sexy Rexy fighting fit!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    Tom_Brady wrote: »
    The only decent QB controversy? Don't know about that, John Beck vs Rex Grossman has the potential to rival Jimmy vs Timmy's cripple fight in South Park.

    John Beck's finest moment.....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    I'm of the opinion that Orton is quite a skilled passer and can play to a high level. However i dont know if i rate him as a leader or when the chips are down. Therefore, hes a good/great passer but an average QB.

    Having said that, the criticism Orton has come under in the last 9 months or so seems to have really pissed him off if interviews are anything to go by, this could light a fire under him and push him to prove his doubters wrong at all costs.

    Tebow cant pass anywhere near as well as him it would seem but is fantastic when the chips are down and a phenomenal leader... a lot will come out in his preseason reps, its what pushed him from third to 2nd string last year, i'd bet he plays very well in his time given and gives Fox and Elway food for thought.

    Also, Orton has never finished a season without picking up an injury of some sort, I'd be confident that Tebow gets his shot some way or another. Sure who's to say Orton doesn't get flattened by Ware tonight and get hurt, these things can change very quickly.

    Huge Tebow fan, but if Orton justifies his starting slot through his performances then fair play to him and i have his back


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    It just smacks of directionless management - if Tebow's so bad, why did they actively flirt with trading Orton only a week ago? Surely Tebow can't have turned an entire front office against him with a few sub-par practices. The safe option is Orton, the option that could re-ignite the Broncos as a franchise is Tebow.

    It'd be a shame for the position of quarter-back itself if Tebow never gets a real shot because whatever you say about him he's mold-breaking and he has the potential to change how quarter-backs are evaluated in the future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Syferus wrote: »

    It'll be a shame for the position of quarter-back itself if Tebow never gets a real shot because whatever you say about him he's mold-breaking and he has the potential to change how quarter-backs are evaluated in the future.

    What? Why would it be a shame to the position of QB. Plenty of QBs with high potential coming out of college never got their shot. All of a sudden because its Tim Tebow people are crying over him getting his "chance" or "shot". Right now he is struggling in camp. He struggled at times last season. He is an average passer with a long wind up and cant do basic drop backs for a QB.

    To put it simply if Tebow hadn't the same athletic ability or this motivation and character people talk about he wouldn't be a NFL QB. People are basing his shot on things you wouldn't normally associate with QB. Sure a QB needs to be a leader but he also needs to be guess what? A fricking QB and a pro one at that.

    As for Denver they will eventually offload Orton and go with Tebow. If they don't Tebow will find a team because there are plenty of team out there stupid enough to think he will win them a bowl.

    He will never win a bowl, He will never go to the Hall of Fame and if Denver want to bank on Tebow eventually good for them and the AFC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    What? Why would it be a shame to the position of QB. Plenty of QBs with high potential coming out of college never got their shot. All of a sudden because its Tim Tebow people are crying over him getting his "chance" or "shot". Right now he is struggling in camp. He struggled at times last season. He is an average passer with a long wind up and cant do basic drop backs for a QB.

    To put it simply if Tebow hadn't the same athletic ability or this motivation and character people talk about he wouldn't be a NFL QB. People are basing his shot on things you wouldn't normally associate with QB. Sure a QB needs to be a leader but he also needs to be guess what? A fricking QB and a pro one at that.

    As for Denver they will eventually offload Orton and go with Tebow. If they don't Tebow will find a team because there are plenty of team out there stupid enough to think he will win them a bowl.

    He will never win a bowl, He will never go to the Hall of Fame and if Denver want to bank on Tebow eventually good for them and the AFC.

    For fans, and for sports in general, change is usually a good thing. Just like the league itself has mutated from a run-first to a pass-first league players that are outside of the norm can do the same for their positions if successful. A league with more QBs with Tebow's phsyicality and atheticism is hardly going to make for a less exciting prospect - I'm not saying Tebow has nothing to work on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Syferus wrote: »
    For fans, and for sports in general, change is usually a good thing. Just like the league itself has mutated from a run-first to a pass-first league players that are outside of the norm can do the same for their positions if successful. A league with more QBs with Tebow's phsyicality and atheticism is hardly going to make for a less exciting prospect.

    Change? Vick has been doing it for years now. But the difference with Vick and Tebow is that Vicks arm was somewhat pro ready as was his motion and footwork. Vick's downfall is throwing deep accurately and not depending on his feet, although last year he was doing it well.

    But this has nothing to do with change. This has to do with whether or not Tebow can play as a QB in the NFL and be good at it.

    And you are helping with my argument in what you wrote in bold now here is the BUT to that. Tebow is an average passer.

    As for the bit in Italics see Michael Vick, no one said he wasnt exciting either but concerns were whether or not an athletic QB would stand strong in the pocket and throw the football. It took Vick a stint in Jail and Andy Reid to realise how to do it but again Vick already had the ingredients to do it. Tebow doesn't. He lacks the basics to run a pro offense and he is struggling in camp right now.

    People are looking at the hype that was Tim Tebow in college and I said it before and I will say it again college football is miles away from the NFL and trying to carry that hype into the Pros is nonsense.

    As for getting his shot someone needs to explain this one to me what they mean. He started 3 games last season. He got a shot. And guess what he was average and is doing badly in camp right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    This is a good article by Lombardi and I have to agree his time in Denver is done.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82160481/article/tebow-will-fail-in-denver-because-no-one-has-vested-interest?module=HP11_cp
    Sponsorship is vital in many sports.

    In golf, unless a young player is sponsored -- i.e. has someone covering his expenses while he trains to become a pro -- he has little chance of making it to the PGA Tour on his own. Same in boxing. Someone has to sponsor the potential fighter, paying his way while he trains for the real money fight.

    In the world of the NFL, sponsorship is just as critical.

    Take the curious case of Tim Tebow in Denver. I believe he has a place in the NFL, but that can only happen when he has the sponsorship of an entire organization. Right now, Tebow does not have that. Why? Let's take a step back in time to remind ourselves how we got here.

    This time last year, Tebow was the bright shining star representing the future of the Broncos. Leading up to the 2010 NFL Draft, Tebow was a lightning rod. Every team analyzed him and whether you believed he would be a first-round pick or not, everyone had a passionate opinion. As an organization, Denver seemed unified in its love for Tebow, trading up to take him 25th overall, higher than most people expected. At Tebow's introductory press conference, current general manager Brian Xanders was full of smiles, praising the work of Tebow and explaining why he would be a perfect fit for the Broncos. Then-head coach Josh McDaniels also was in full support of Tebow, sharing his vision of what offense would maximize his skill set.

    Teaching Tebow the system in Year 1 was critical, as well as working on his mechanics and his ability to make accurate throws. No one claimed it would be easy, and no one thought Tebow could be an instant starter. But with his highly acclaimed work habits and competitive spirit, Broncos brass believed it would be just a matter of time before Tebow emerged as Denver's football future.

    The critical mistake the Broncos made was not understanding the total commitment they were making as an organization to Tebow. Drafting Tebow was not like drafting any other quarterback. Everyone, from the owner on down, should have been aware of the totality of the pick.

    That wasn't the case, though. Seven months after picking Tebow, the Broncos fired the man who drafted him, McDaniels, and then others in the organization came forward to say they never liked the pick. Firing McDaniels is clearly the owner's right, but constant changes in the coaching staff means constant changes with the players. When McDaniels walked out of the building, so did Tebow's sponsorship. Any chance Tebow would become the next star quarterback in Denver was gone.

    The Broncos wanted to make their fan base happy, and former Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway wanted to become part of the organization. Turning the football operation over to Elway accomplished both. Elway is now making all the decisions needed to guide the fortunes of the franchise. With Xanders remaining in his same job, the Broncos tried to pick up the pieces from a horrible season.

    Elway was not even on the job one day when the Tebow bailout started. When asked about whether he viewed Tebow as the future of the Broncos, he honestly answered that he was not his kind of quarterback. But later he retracted that statement, expressing warm support for Tebow. Elway has every right to build this team in his vision, his style and his understanding of what it will take to win a Super Bowl. His lack of commitment to Tebow is not a criticism, but rather a reflection of how little understanding the Broncos had when they allowed McDaniels to make the pick.

    Instead of finding a potential young offensive head coach who could see a vision for Tebow, Elway chose an established NFL head coach, John Fox, to bring stability and leadership to the organization. Don't blame Fox for not jumping on the Tebow train, either, because it was not his pick. Fox retained Mike McCoy as the offensive coordinator, which, in theory, would be good for Tebow but in reality does not appear that way. McCoy was not a part of the process that led to drafting Tebow and has no vested interest in the pick.

    Without total team sponsorship, the Tebow pick won't work in Denver. It won't work because no one has a vested interest in making it work. It won't work because Fox wants to win now and worry about the future later. No one remains who will lay claim to agreeing with the pick. The only guy who did was fired in December.

    Now, Tebow is fighting for his back-up job with Brady Quinn. He's clearly not in competition with starter Kyle Orton, who the front office put on the trade block before camp started. However, Orton now is firmly in place and has since been told he won't be traded. Does anyone in Denver know what they really want to do?

    Back in 1987, when working for the 49ers, coach Bill Walsh traded for Steve Young, a journeyman quarterback with the Buccaneers. Sending a mid-round pick and some of Eddie DeBartolo's cash, Walsh saw something in Young that warranted his sponsorship. Most of the league laughed, including some in his own organization. But Walsh had a vision, a plan, and the owner's full support to make the trade, as well as the time to determine if his vision was correct.

    What happened to Young is what has to happen to Tebow. He will need to get traded to a coach willing to sponsor him and an owner willing to give the coach time. It won't happen in Denver, because there is no one who wants to be burdened with the pick -- including the ones in the room when the pick was made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,075 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Syferus wrote: »
    It'd be a shame for the position of quarter-back itself if Tebow never gets a real shot because whatever you say about him he's mold-breaking and he has the potential to change how quarter-backs are evaluated in the future.

    I'm sorry, but this post smacks of an ignorance of the wider history of the sport. Tebow is not mould breaking. He's a fantastic athlete, with all the intangibles - probably born to be a professional athlete. But he is not going to revolutionize the QB position in the NFL, because he can't play a pro style offense.

    At Florida, Tebow led a roster that had a significant talent edge on both sides of the ball against the majority of their schedule. His athleticism allowed him to get it done with his feet - but in the NFL, the worst franchises have defenses packed with stars at the college level. His game simply does not cut it.

    Moreover, someone like Tebow failing and not being good enough is not new. There have been countless dominant running QBs playing in non pro style offenses at the college level over the years who couldn't get it done at the next level.

    Personally, I think Tebow is good enough to get on a roster - but probably in a Brad Smith utility type role. For me, Denver's mistake is not failing to make him starting QB. It's failing to think outside the box and develop some funky **** to throw into the offensive mix a few times a game that utilises Tebow's specific skillset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but this post smacks of an ignorance of the wider history of the sport. Tebow is not mould breaking. He's a fantastic athlete, with all the intangibles - probably born to be a professional athlete. But he is not going to revolutionize the QB position in the NFL, because he can't play a pro style offense.

    At Florida, Tebow led a roster that had a significant talent edge on both sides of the ball against the majority of their schedule. His athleticism allowed him to get it done with his feet - but in the NFL, the worst franchises have defenses packed with stars at the college level. His game simply does not cut it.

    Moreover, someone like Tebow failing and not being good enough is not new. There have been countless dominant running QBs playing in non pro style offenses at the college level over the years who couldn't get it done at the next level.

    Personally, I think Tebow is good enough to get on a roster - but probably in a Brad Smith utility type role. For me, Denver's mistake is not failing to make him starting QB. It's failing to think outside the box and develop some funky **** to throw into the offensive mix a few times a game that utilises Tebow's specific skillset.

    Come on now. I never said he's a singular aberration, indeed it should be obvious to most the similarities in his style of play and Falcons-era Vick, while Steve (and Vince) Young springs to mind in terms of a dual-threat quarter-back.

    Tebow is a tight end-sized QB, though, and it's hard for anyone to make the case that if Tebow does succeed - coupled with Vick continuing his form with the Eagles and Newton delivering a hybrid of the two at Carolina - that it will contribute to different ideas as to what the most effective type of QB is. If there's room for a Peyton Manning, a Ben Roethlisberger, a Drew Brees and a Michael Vick in the league the idea of Tebow playing QB isn't much of a stretch. If you disagree that's your choice, but until he's given the chance to develop and grow as a pro then no one can really discount him or anyone coming up in his mold.

    I saw that article on NFL.com and it makes alot of sense. If Denver don't see him as the future they need to trade him immediately to a team that does want him because he has to be a project for a team for him to be of real value to them. Washington springs to mind as a team that could do with a young QB to develop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,075 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Tebow is a tight end-sized QB, though, and it's hard for anyone to make the case that if Tebow does succeed - coupled with Vick continuing his form with the Eagles and Newton delivering a hybrid of the two at Carolina - that it will contribute to different ideas as to what the most effective type of QB is. If there's room for a Peyton Manning, a Ben Roethlisberger, a Drew Brees and a Michael Vick in the league the idea of Tebow playing QB isn't much of a stretch. If you disagree that's your choice, but until he's given the chance to develop and grow as a pro then no one can really discount him or anyone coming up in his mold.

    HE. CANNOT. THROW.

    As for the rest, remember this dude? How about this guy, he was huge for the position. This beast could get it done with his feet before a horrific injury, and this guy ran for nearly 3k yards in essentially five seasons.

    Vick will start for a genuine contender this year backed up by Vince Young. Seriously man, this idea that 'the next great running QB will revolutionize the position' is dead wrong. The NFL has had numerous run happy QBs, it is aware of them, and they can succeed. But all of the above names (apart from Stewart I guess) could all THROW THE ****ING FOOTBALL. They could exist with 3 step drops, run pro sets efficiently, etc.

    The NFL will never deny players that are good enough their shot. It is a true meritocracy in that respect - everyone wants to win and they'll play whoever they think can help them to achieve that end (and gamble with loads of players who 'might' in the process). But Tebow just doesn't have the skills.

    Of course, when players like Tebow fail there will be no shortage of college fanboys there who just don't wish to understand why.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    HE. CANNOT. THROW.

    As for the rest, remember this dude? How about this guy, he was huge for the position. This beast could get it done with his feet before a horrific injury, and this guy ran for nearly 3k yards in essentially five seasons.

    Vick will start for a genuine contender this year backed up by Vince Young. Seriously man, this idea that 'the next great running QB will revolutionize the position' is dead wrong. The NFL has had numerous run happy QBs, it is aware of them, and they can succeed. But all of the above names (apart from Stewart I guess) could all THROW THE ****ING FOOTBALL. They could exist with 3 step drops, run pro sets efficiently, etc.

    The NFL will never deny players that are good enough their shot. It is a true meritocracy in that respect - everyone wants to win and they'll play whoever they think can help them to achieve that end (and gamble with loads of players who 'might' in the process). But Tebow just doesn't have the skills.

    Of course, when players like Tebow fail there will be no shortage of college fanboys there who just don't wish to understand why.

    Look, I'm not going to get into a shouting match over a quarter-back - we disagree, it's as simple as that.


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