Dog Research

Tim Robbins · 19-09-2020 8:37pm #1

Hi,
Ok as per mod rules I am not looking for a source to buy a dog, I am looking for information.

I had a cavalier growing up and we were very close to him. He was well looked after, regularly walked and slept indoors usually in someone's room. He was bought from a reputable breeder who had the family tree back a few generations and all the paperwork. The one thing that was very tough was his health wasn't great. This was 25-30 years ago, so maybe some of problems have been bred out of the breed now? But it was the usual, eye's heart etc. from about age 7 or so.

Anyway, now I am thinking of getting another dog and I see these cross breeds are getting very popular. Why is this? Is it to try to get healthier dogs for example a cavapoo seems like it could be healthier? Or is it because they are cheaper or because they won't shed as much? Just wondering as I am out of the loop with dogs.

And what about other breeds to the Cavalier? That might give you the companionship and not have the same heart breaking health issues?

Things that are important:
* Dog would be an indoors dog. As in, they sleep inside and are allowed upstairs. Our house is a 3 bed semi and we have a decent back garden. Sorry this is how I grew up. I'd listen to music and the dog was in the house and we'd chat.
* Dog walking: we'd be looking at 30 mins per day. We have no-one in the family who goes for four hour walks because they love walking. So we want realistic targets here. It is better to aim for a dog that needs 30 minutes a day which is achievable than a dog that needs 90 mins a day walking which is not going to be achievable over a long period of time. So this rules out Cocker Spaniel for example.
* Child friendly. Prior to the Cavalier when I was young, we had a mongrel. Probably close to a Jack Russell. But, sadly, she bit lots of people so unfortunately we had to put her to sleep. We have kids now, so getting on with young children is a must.
* Grooming. I see now that some dogs need to be brushed every day. Again, realistic targets, the walking is achievable and more important. So would prefer a dog that doesn't need lots of grooming. Minimal is fine.
* Dog Shelter: I have height of respect for people who go this way. However, for me - I am happier going for a breed where I now what I am getting. The dog has to be walked every day and that's 30 mins *minimum*, if you can't commit to beyond that you should not sign up. That's where I am coming from. Obviously there will be days where you may be out for 3 hours with the dog. But, it has to be minimum 30 mins a day.
* Puppy farms: This is a big no no for me. From what I am reading loads of these cross breeds are coming from dodgy breeders this is something I can't deal with.

Any advice appreciate?

Gloucester · 19-09-2020 9:03pm

As someone who has a cavalier I know that their temperament and everything about them makes them such adorable pets for a family.
We were blessed that our cavalier, who's now 8, has only the beginnings of a heart murmur, no medication for it yet but has a bit of arthritis needing medicine that's about 20 Euro only every 2 months or so. He also gets a supplement that 50 Euro for 3 months supply (Arthri-Aid). We got him from a small family breeder in louth who thankfully had lovely healthy strong looking Cavs. We always hear remarks about how strong and healthy he looks - everyone's become so used to the teeny tiny sickly cavaliers. They can be quite needy and require someone at home a fair bit with them. He's a lapdog but he loves company and we have someone here with him nearly all day everyday.

I'd definitely look at the likes of <snip> Rescue Ireland on Facebook - in recent days they were looking for a home for a Blenheim cavalier. They might be able to match you with a suitable dog.
We've a Cocker Spaniel in the wider family and he's happy with a 30-45 minute walk each day and some days (weather dependent

) he won't walk too far at all. He's been healthy enough too. Greyhounds are a breed you could consider - they don't actually require a huge amount of walking every day and love lazing around the house - there's normally plenty of them looking for homes too.
Best of luck with your search - you can't beat having a little set of paws running around the house!!

Darc19 · 20-09-2020 12:38pm

I'd look at a bichon/Maltese cross, or Maltichons.

Seems to answer most/all your requirements.

em_cat · 20-09-2020 1:13pm

OP, it’s good that you are putting a lot of thought into getting a dog. Try to remember that most dogs behave the way do because of the input into training or lack there of. I know a lot of JRT’s that are fantastic family pets and a lot of cavalier’s that are placid yet neurotic however I also know a good few Maltese mixes that are aggressive and possessive, this doesn’t mean all are the same though. Nine of ten times is because of humans and very very rarely is genetic.

Also please be very careful about designer cross breeds and people selling them claiming things like hypoallergenic (marketing term), if you come across breeders that sell various breeds then walk away, walk away from someone who had pups ready to go, a good breeder will have a wait list and will interview you to see if your a good fit.

[Deleted User] · 20-09-2020 1:27pm

Cavaliers have such sweet temperaments, but alas the heart valve issue is extremely commonplace. If you want a generally healthy breed (with longevity) that is similar in size the Papillon is a good choice, and often highly trainable. There have been very good bloodlines of these in Ireland in the past, so sticking with IKC breeders with the long pedigrees is the way to go. I used to know some of the old breeders back in the 1970s who produced dogs that reached ages 18 and even up to 22. If these bloodlines are still in existence they are excellent. However a Papillon can be wary of strangers.

Another healthy small breed is the Tibetan Spaniel, which should last to about 15 years, and not be a regular visitor to the vet. They are very gentle in temperament.

Tim Robbins · 20-09-2020 2:49pm

Darc19 wrote: »

I'd look at a bichon/Maltese cross, or Maltichons.

Seems to answer most/all your requirements.

and just wondering why is that better than just a Maltese or a Bichon?

I know this sounds stupid but one issue I have with cross breeds, in my initial research is it is very hard to get a reputable breeder. And again this sounds stupid, but why is someone breeding the mix? Why not breed one or the other? What is motivating them?

Again sorry of this sounds stupid but I have to learn...

[Deleted User] · 20-09-2020 4:17pm

Here is a reputable source of information on breeders of the Papillon. Generally Kennel Club breeders are pure hobbyists, taking pride in producing good, well-cared for dogs, and not to make a quick buck. The breeders tend to be regular users of veterinary services and all do it for the love of dogs. In fact many breeders will be very reluctant to sell their progeny to any unsuitable potential owners.

https://www.ikc.ie/dog-ownership/types-of-dog/breeds/breed-details/

https://www.ikc.ie/dog-ownership/types-of-dog/breeds/breed-details/

DBB · 20-09-2020 4:38pm

Might I just clarify something there Catmaniac?
The IKC does not discern between reputable breeders, and people who breed for profit. It is really important that prospective owners realise that any puppy farmer or back yard breeder can get their pups IKC registered.
In other words, just because a litter of pups is advertised as IKC registered, it does not automatically follow that they were ethically bred, or health tests done, or any of the stuff you'd like to have had done with your pup (and its parents) prior to purchase.
What IS a more reliable route is to contact the breed society for whatever breed you're interested in. As a general rule, it's through the specific breed societies that you're going to find the reputable breeders, because they usually do have some level of quality control that the IKC doesn't have built in.
Reputable breeders may also be found via working clubs and groups too, as it's not always all about the show ring!

[Deleted User] · 20-09-2020 4:55pm

DBB wrote: »

Might I just clarify something there Catmaniac?
The IKC does not discern between reputable breeders, and people who breed for profit. It is really important that prospective owners realise that any puppy farmer or back yard breeder can get their pups IKC registered.
In other words, just because a litter of pups is advertised as IKC registered, it does not automatically follow that they were ethically bred, or health tests done, or any of the stuff you'd like to have had done with your pup (and its parents) prior to purchase.
What IS a more reliable route is to contact the breed society for whatever breed you're interested in. As a general rule, it's through the specific breed societies that you're going to find the reputable breeders, because they usually do have some level of quality control that the IKC doesn't have built in.
Reputable breeders may also be found via working clubs and groups too, as it's not always all about the show ring!

Yes absolutely... that's why I posted the links, they have the breed society contact details on them. What I mean about IKC registered breeders is really more those who are affiliated with breed society and are pure hobby breeders who attend the championship shows, are active in their societies etc. Actually if somebody is particularly interested in a breed one can join the breed society, attend their meetings, training classes & socials(in Covid free days). In this way you actually get to see and interact with the breeding dogs, owners, get to know them. A reputable breeder will be delighted to sell their pups to people they know and trust too. When I was a teenager I was a registered "breeder", it was a hobby and taught me a huge amount about dogs. Used to see newsreader Charles Mitchel at the dog shows where he showed and judged.

Darc19 · 20-09-2020 5:28pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

and just wondering why is that better than just a Maltese or a Bichon?

I know this sounds stupid but one issue I have with cross breeds, in my initial research is it is very hard to get a reputable breeder. And again this sounds stupid, but why is someone breeding the mix? Why not breed one or the other? What is motivating them?

Again sorry of this sounds stupid but I have to learn...

I think it's that they are both similar and crossbreeding them gives a good size. Also a Maltese would be seen as "cuter looking" whereas a bichon would be seen as more intelligent by many, so the combination can be very attractive.

A full bichon would also be excellent, however a Maltese can be overly yappy.

DBB · 20-09-2020 6:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes absolutely... that's why I posted the links, they have the breed society contact details on them. What I mean about IKC registered breeders is really more those who are affiliated with breed society and are pure hobby breeders who attend the championship shows, are active in their societies etc. Actually if somebody is particularly interested in a breed one can join the breed society, attend their meetings, training classes & socials(in Covid free days). In this way you actually get to see and interact with the breeding dogs, owners, get to know them. A reputable breeder will be delighted to sell their pups to people they know and trust too. When I was a teenager I was a registered "breeder", it was a hobby and taught me a huge amount about dogs. Used to see newsreader Charles Mitchel at the dog shows where he showed and judged.

I was going to say you're showing your age now, but then, so am I, when I ask you what breed was Charles Mitchel involved with? He must have had one of the most recognisable voices in Ireland at one time

peasant · 20-09-2020 8:20pm

em_cat wrote: »

OP, it’s good that you are putting a lot of thought into getting a dog. Try to remember that most dogs behave the way do because of the input into training or lack there of. I know a lot of JRT’s that are fantastic family pets and a lot of cavalier’s that are placid yet neurotic however I also know a good few Maltese mixes that are aggressive and possessive, this doesn’t mean all are the same though. Nine of ten times is because of humans and very very rarely is genetic.

This ...very much so.
Despite all the bumpf that breeders and clubs spout about their breeds, behaviour and character/personality are very much dependent on the individual dog and the way that they were raised and not the breed.

As to your requirements:

- minimal grooming: get a short haired dog, they are pretty much self cleaning
- limited exercise: avoid working type dogs, they get bored and misbehave
- child friendly: make sure your kids are dog friendly and the dog will reciprocate
- indoor dog: pretty much every dog (with the exception of perhaps flock guardians) can be an indoor dog...as long as long as they are allowed to be a dog indoors.

Despite your misgivings about shelters, my suggestion would be to get a nice, young, shorthaired rescue dog of the required size. Possibly of unknown parentage ..that way you needn't worry about advertised breed characteristics and can concentrate on raising it right

Darc19 · 20-09-2020 9:07pm

Good article in the irish times last week https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/in-the-market-for-a-dog-here-s-what-it-s-likely-to-cost-1.4352408

It also mentions petbond.ie which has been set up by vets along with kennel club and animal shelters

Cherry Blossom · 20-09-2020 9:20pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

and just wondering why is that better than just a Maltese or a Bichon?

I know this sounds stupid but one issue I have with cross breeds, in my initial research is it is very hard to get a reputable breeder. And again this sounds stupid, but why is someone breeding the mix? Why not breed one or the other? What is motivating them?

Again sorry of this sounds stupid but I have to learn...

These are not stupid questions at all and if everyone who was considering a designer dog asked them none would be sold at all. The fact is the vast majority of these dogs are bred in puppy mills and the remainder are bred by back yard breeders. A small number may end up in rescue but demand for small dogs is high. You mentioned you want a low maintenance coat. These crosses are typically very high maintenance coat wise with most requiring professional grooming every six weeks to keep their coat manageable. I think the suggestion of a papillon is a good one for you. My next dog will be small and short haired and the papilliion is a breed I’m considering.

zoe 3619 · 20-09-2020 9:42pm

A greyhound might suit you?
Loads in rescues and you know exactly what you're getting.
Family freindly,smooth coated and very easy to excercise.

[Deleted User] · 20-09-2020 10:00pm

DBB wrote: »

I was going to say you're showing your age now, but then, so am I, when I ask you what breed was Charles Mitchel involved with? He must have had one of the most recognisable voices in Ireland at one time

He was famous for his Bassett Hounds, always had a welcoming smile at the dog shows, always greeted myself & my Mum even though we were in the toy breeds section.

alroley · 20-09-2020 10:05pm

Darc19 wrote: »

I think it's that they are both similar and crossbreeding them gives a good size. Also a Maltese would be seen as "cuter looking" whereas a bichon would be seen as more intelligent by many, so the combination can be very attractive.

A full bichon would also be excellent, however a Maltese can be overly yappy.

Maltese are a wonderful breed and do not need to be mixed with anything else :mad:

em_cat · 20-09-2020 10:09pm

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

These are not stupid questions at all and if everyone who was considering a designer dog asked them none would be sold at all. The fact is the vast majority of these dogs are bred in puppy mills and the remainder are bred by back yard breeders. A small number may end up in rescue but demand for small dogs is high. You mentioned you want a low maintenance coat. These crosses are typically very high maintenance coat wise with most requiring professional grooming every six weeks to keep their coat manageable. I think the suggestion of a papillon is a good one for you. My next dog will be small and short haired and the papilliion is a breed I’m considering.

Ha, and we are looking at another Sheltie in the next couple of years

[Deleted User] · 20-09-2020 10:17pm

This video (if you can ignore the voice!) gives a quick overview of the Papillon, which the author quite aptly describes as like a miniature Border Collie.

https://youtu.be/ZzUImmOlE_s

Darc19 · 20-09-2020 10:25pm

alroley wrote: »

Maltese are a wonderful breed and do not need to be mixed with anything else :mad:

They are indeed, but pure Maltese are expensive, and they are quite yappy. I have a almost pure Maltese - it's a rescue, so just guessing it's a Maltese + Maltese cross parentage.

Choc Chip · 21-09-2020 7:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This video (if you can ignore the voice!) gives a quick overview of the Papillon, which the author quite aptly describes as like a miniature Border Collie.

https://youtu.be/ZzUImmOlE_s

I'm wondering why so many people are recommending papillons.... the op wants the dog to be happy with a 30minute walk a day. I'm not too familiar with them, but i've always got the impression that they were a fairly sporty small dog...?

alroley · 21-09-2020 9:50pm

Darc19 wrote: »

They are indeed, but pure Maltese are expensive, and they are quite yappy. I have a almost pure Maltese - it's a rescue, so just guessing it's a Maltese + Maltese cross parentage.

All dogs are expensive now.

I have a maltese and he is the best - I would get another for sure!

em_cat · 21-09-2020 9:56pm

Choc Chip wrote: »

I'm wondering why so many people are recommending papillons.... the op wants the dog to be happy with a 30minute walk a day. I'm not too familiar with them, but i've always got the impression that they were a fairly sporty small dog...?

TBH, I’m not sure any dog breed would be classed as a 30 minute walked dog

I’ve a friend who has 3 papillons, all three do agility & tricks galore, they are incredibly intelligent little things afaik.

anewme · 21-12-2020 8:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Here is a reputable source of information on breeders of the Papillon. Generally Kennel Club breeders are pure hobbyists, taking pride in producing good, well-cared for dogs, and not to make a quick buck. The breeders tend to be regular users of veterinary services and all do it for the love of dogs. In fact many breeders will be very reluctant to sell their progeny to any unsuitable potential owners.

https://www.ikc.ie/dog-ownership/types-of-dog/breeds/breed-details/

https://www.ikc.ie/dog-ownership/types-of-dog/breeds/breed-details/

Hi, those links are for Afghan hound?

The little Papillion dog sounds like a breed that might suit me. I had no idea they needed a fair bit of exercise.

firefish · 24-12-2020 4:51pm

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

These are not stupid questions at all and if everyone who was considering a designer dog asked them none would be sold at all. The fact is the vast majority of these dogs are bred in puppy mills and the remainder are bred by back yard breeders. A small number may end up in rescue but demand for small dogs is high. You mentioned you want a low maintenance coat. These crosses are typically very high maintenance coat wise with most requiring professional grooming every six weeks to keep their coat manageable. I think the suggestion of a papillon is a good one for you. My next dog will be small and short haired and the papilliion is a breed I’m considering.

Cherry Blossom, is there a reason you wouldn’t go for a sheltie again? I have seen a sheltie puppy I really like, but wondering if shelties are v high maintenance and too skittish for living in a noisy house full of children in the city! The ubiquitous cockapoos/cavapoos sound like a better bet if it wasn’t for not being able to find a reputable breeder!

Cherry Blossom · 24-12-2020 5:01pm

Its just that I’ve had a westie and Sheltie and both require a bit of grooming and neither have ever liked being brushed. The common denominator has been me. I get my Sheltie clipped because he’s prone to yeast infections and it’s hard to wash and dry him properly in full coat. I absolutely love the breed but there are so many wonderful breeds and life is so short but I’d like to own different breeds. Purely from a maintenance point of view I think my next dog will be short haired, maybe a smooth coated chihuahua, a mini pin or a plain old jrt or indeed a papillon, there are still so many to choose from.

Cherry Blossom · 24-12-2020 5:40pm

Just to add if your thinking of getting one. My sheltie is verrry clingy, insists on sitting on top of me all the time. This clingyness has increased as he’s got older. As a pup he wouldn’t sit still for two minutes but still stayed very close. He accompanies me to the bathroom, to get something in the fridge, he supervises dish washing, is always ready to go with me in the car. I call him my little shadow. It can get annoying he never really bothered about my mum who lived here most of his life, attaching themselves to one person in the house is a bit of a breed trait I think.

firefish · 24-12-2020 8:20pm

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Just to add if your thinking of getting one. My sheltie is verrry clingy, insists on sitting on top of me all the time. This clingyness has increased as he’s got older. As a pup he wouldn’t sit still for two minutes but still stayed very close. He accompanies me to the bathroom, to get something in the fridge, he supervises dish washing, is always ready to go with me in the car. I call him my little shadow. It can get annoying he never really bothered about my mum who lived here most of his life, attaching themselves to one person in the house is a bit of a breed trait I think.

Oh, I think that might be a problem. The dog is to be a family dog so if he only likes one person that mightn’t be much fun for the children. The more I think about it the more this puppy probably isn’t for me, despite being from a very good breeder and a beauty!

Cherry Blossom · 24-12-2020 8:31pm

When I got him my niece lived with me and she tried to take him to a few charity dog shows. He wasn’t happy at all being in the ring and me being outside it and he try to run out to me if she wasn’t paying attention. We tried maybe half a dozen times but I had to be in the ring with them walking beside them for him to be calm and unstressed.

Cows Go µ · 24-12-2020 8:43pm

firefish wrote: »

Oh, I think that might be a problem. The dog is to be a family dog so if he only likes one person that mightn’t be much fun for the children. The more I think about it the more this puppy probably isn’t for me, despite being from a very good breeder and a beauty!

I have 2 shelties, one who has adopted my boyfriend since he moved in and on who is very much my dog. I do think that the following thing is very common (though I've had it in other breeds too) but they are both happy to play and have cuddles with either of us. Or anyone who comes to the house. It only started with the younger one when she went into heat for the first time and she needed comfort, since then she likes to sit touching me and following me around.

Since I got a sheltie I wouldn't have any other breed. They are so clever and energetic, not to mention extremely pretty. I do think they need a lot of work when they are babies to get them well socialised and stop them from being skittish. But when the work is done, they are remarkable. My younger dog is always ready to play but is also happy to sit with me watching TV. I do agility with her and I've never seen a dog so willing to work. The other is much quieter, she likes tricks and looking after people - she likes to sit on me when I'm stressed to help me feel better.

I think the level of grooming depends on the dog. Mine barely get groomed, just if they are shedding and that only happens once or twice a year (normally after a heat which is every 10 months for one and the other is neutered so it seems to be spring and autumn but it varies). Or if they are super mucky, most of the time it just flakes off but sometimes they need help. Mine don't like grooming but put up with it. I don't like grooming though. My parents dogs love it but then my mum loves grooming.

firefish · 24-12-2020 11:47pm

Cows Go µ wrote: »

I have 2 shelties, one who has adopted my boyfriend since he moved in and on who is very much my dog. I do think that the following thing is very common (though I've had it in other breeds too) but they are both happy to play and have cuddles with either of us. Or anyone who comes to the house. It only started with the younger one when she went into heat for the first time and she needed comfort, since then she likes to sit touching me and following me around.

Since I got a sheltie I wouldn't have any other breed. They are so clever and energetic, not to mention extremely pretty. I do think they need a lot of work when they are babies to get them well socialised and stop them from being skittish. But when the work is done, they are remarkable. My younger dog is always ready to play but is also happy to sit with me watching TV. I do agility with her and I've never seen a dog so willing to work. The other is much quieter, she likes tricks and looking after people - she likes to sit on me when I'm stressed to help me feel better.

I think the level of grooming depends on the dog. Mine barely get groomed, just if they are shedding and that only happens once or twice a year (normally after a heat which is every 10 months for one and the other is neutered so it seems to be spring and autumn but it varies). Or if they are super mucky, most of the time it just flakes off but sometimes they need help. Mine don't like grooming but put up with it. I don't like grooming though. My parents dogs love it but then my mum loves grooming.

It’s funny how different dogs can be! I really love What I hear about shelties, but with children it may be that an “easier” dog would be better. Maybe a poodle?

Dog Research

Comments