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Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

13567…339

Comments

  • #62
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    JimmyVik wrote:
    It looks to me like the problem is going to be that the government buy up or lease all property for social housing in the next few years, leaving very little for normal buyers, but costing the tax payer a fortune. So not only basically the normal buyer is now bidding against the council, who are increasing prices and to add insult to injury using the normal buyers own money (taxes) to do this. Pretty soon you wont be able to own a house unless you are given it by the council. Because there will be nothing left for you.

    That appears to be the plan. There is an article in the Irish Times today saying as much, will post later. Wealth funds are lining up to avail of those 750k leases on 2 bed apartments with the state responsible for maintenance

    I think the one positive from Government policy is that no country will ever have to invade us as what country would risk their own citizens life's when our Government will bow to anyone coming flashing a bit of printed money

    Shocking stuff

    I would advise any Ftb to approach/contact their local government TD to explain this nonsense and why they are using your taxpayers money to make your life more difficult and enriching foreign property funds


  • #63
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Hubertj wrote:
    I don’t agree with not being able to let a full house or apartment at least some of the time. Many families would be unable to afford vacations if hotels were the only option.


    If its your principle private residence, there is no issue with that.

    There are over 60, 000 houses legally classed as holiday homes in Ireland plus the plethora of hotels built during the course of the last boom/bust cycle
    Plus student accomodation that is available for tourists during peak season. There is no shortage of holiday lets

    Implement the laws of the land and make residential property solely for residential purposes. Stop wasting money buying property that is not abiding by those conditions


  • #64
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,598 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Villa05 wrote: »
    There are over 60, 000 houses legally classed as holiday homes in Ireland plus the plethora of hotels built during the course of the last boom/bust cycle
    Plus student accomodation that is available for tourists during peak season. There is no shortage of holiday lets

    I think the building of housing should be prioritised over the building of hotels. And I think that short term lets should be regulated.

    But there absolutely is a shortage of holiday lets and definitely a shortage of hotel space. I think if the government legislation (90 day limit) was actually enforceable / enforced it would be a fine compromise.


  • #65
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    Villa05 wrote: »
    If its your principle private residence, there is no issue with that.

    There are over 60, 000 houses legally classed as holiday homes in Ireland plus the plethora of hotels built during the course of the last boom/bust cycle
    Plus student accomodation that is available for tourists during peak season. There is no shortage of holiday lets

    Implement the laws of the land and make residential property solely for residential purposes. Stop wasting money buying property that is not abiding by those conditions

    how many holiday homes are in Dublin?


  • #66
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Hubertj wrote: »
    how many holiday homes are in Dublin?


    Whats more important? Housing for people working there or people there for a couple of nights


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  • #67
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/social-housing-expected-to-attract-considerable-private-investment-1.4303260?localLinksEnabled=false

    In a new report, published on Monday, the real estate group said there had been “increased demand” over the past six months, with investors “keen to acquire residential units and schemes let to local authorities on long-term leases”
    ........The increased demand from investors in the sector is attributed to the “long-term secure income stream” guaranteed from a local authority or an Approved Housing Body.

    “Investors get the benefit of long-term secure income with little or no day-to-day management, repair or maintenance responsibility, while the local authority or AHB gets access to housing to enable them to reduce their housing lists,” the report said


  • #68
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    From the same article


    Separately, office take-up in Dublin during the second quarter reached only 9,885sq m, which was the lowest quarterly take-up ever recorded in the capital, according to another report from CBRE.
    It noted that many transactions were cancelled or put on hold as a result of the Covid-19 lockdown.


  • #69
    Roberto_gas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Couple of firends bought houses as they got calls where they were outbid ! Possibly someone pulled out due to COVID and they were able to buy the houses...in general lots of new properties coming up in south dublin which was never the case...Bids are still over asking for few.

    Supply is where i think there is some impact...none on prices ! The wait continues


  • #70
    boma_12
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭boma_12


    definitely 2008 all over again -with business as usual attitude in Ire, but it will hit big time --- the first wave of redundancies started in UK -Ire will follow , by October mortgage holidays will be over and furlough will end, what does that mean? Next step => end of October second wave corona virus and lockdown, more business will fly ,more redundancies and martial law in US.. The FED,banks,NAMA will be buying these distressed businesses for peanuts, all in progress as designed..


  • #71
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    WFH gaining in popularity only 1 in 6 want to revert to a 5 day in office work week


    24% want to WFH 2 to 3 days a week
    20% want to WFH 1 to 2 days a week
    20% want to WFH 3 to 4 days a week




    AIB Survey


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  • #72
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭wassie


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I think the building of housing should be prioritised over the building of hotels. And I think that short term lets should be regulated.

    But there absolutely is a shortage of holiday lets and definitely a shortage of hotel space. I think if the government legislation (90 day limit) was actually enforceable / enforced it would be a fine compromise.

    Whilst I agree that housing should be prioritised, its worth remembering that hotel & short term accommodation, especially around Dublin region, is critical for economic activity during the working week for business travellers and construction workers.


  • #73
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Villa05 wrote: »
    WFH gaining in popularity only 1 in 6 want to revert to a 5 day in office work week


    24% want to WFH 2 to 3 days a week
    20% want to WFH 1 to 2 days a week
    20% want to WFH 3 to 4 days a week




    AIB Survey
    Not surprising at all.
    The old 5 day presenteeism office week is dead.


  • #74
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Villa05 wrote: »
    If its your principle private residence, there is no issue with that.

    There are over 60, 000 houses legally classed as holiday homes in Ireland plus the plethora of hotels built during the course of the last boom/bust cycle
    Plus student accomodation that is available for tourists during peak season. There is no shortage of holiday lets

    Implement the laws of the land and make residential property solely for residential purposes. Stop wasting money buying property that is not abiding by those conditions

    So just to clarify (and please note, I do not own two homes):

    If I choose to save my money over a number of years and buy or build a second home as a holiday home, where I will be contributing to the local employment & local economy as opposed to pissing it away on holidays abroad, I should not be allowed to do so?


  • #75
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Naos wrote: »
    So just to clarify (and please note, I do not own two homes):

    If I choose to save my money over a number of years and buy or build a second home as a holiday home, where I will be contributing to the local employment & local economy as opposed to pissing it away on holidays abroad, I should not be allowed to do so?

    After the initial build, during which your builders will buy a few pints and roles in the local pubs and shops, you will contribute little or nothing to the local economy. You will make it harder for locals to obtain housing as you have taken a site. You will spend very little money in your holiday area, as you will be mostly self catering and quite likely bringing in your supplies from outside the area. Unoccupied holiday homes in resort areas are a blight. They contribute very little to the local economy and cause a lot of problems.


  • #76
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    After the initial build, during which your builders will buy a few pints and roles in the local pubs and shops, you will contribute little or nothing to the local economy. You will make it harder for locals to obtain housing as you have taken a site. You will spend very little money in your holiday area, as you will be mostly self catering and quite likely bringing in your supplies from outside the area. Unoccupied holiday homes in resort areas are a blight. They contribute very little to the local economy and cause a lot of problems.

    As is that persons right, if someone wants the site let them buy it themselves. Who are you to tell anyone how to spend their money its hard enough to earn it. If this person wants to build a holiday home so when they have down time they can relax in their own space why should they not be allowed to


  • #77
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    fliball123 wrote: »
    As is that persons right, if someone wants the site let them buy it themselves. Who are you to tell anyone how to spend their money its hard enough to earn it. If this person wants to build a holiday home so when they have down time they can relax in their own space why should they not be allowed to

    Public policy. Is one house not enough for you?


  • #78
    LasersGoPewPew
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭LasersGoPewPew


    The government is allowing investment funds to buy up 95% of 3644 new apartments. Developers are only happy to offload in bulk because it saves them hassle and keeps cash flow going and profits flowing, but this prevents 3462 people from owning a home. This is increasing competition among first time buyers and keeps prices inflated by limiting supply, this is part of the reason why we're not seeing drops in desirable areas. The government needs to be lobbied to limit how many apartments or new developments can be purchased by investment funds, they are contributing to this crisis.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/just-8-000-houses-built-last-year-offered-for-sale-on-open-market-says-cif-1.4177876%3fmode=amp


  • #79
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    LasersGoPewPew wrote: »
    The government is allowing investment funds to buy up 95% of 3644 new apartments. Developers are only happy to offload in bulk because it saves them hassle and keeps cash flow going and profits flowing, but this prevents 3462 people from owning a home. This is increasing competition among first time buyers and keeps prices inflated by limiting supply, this is part of the reason why we're not seeing drops in desirable areas. The government needs to be lobbied to limit how many apartments or new developments can be purchased by investment funds, they are contributing to this crisis.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/just-8-000-houses-built-last-year-offered-for-sale-on-open-market-says-cif-1.4177876%3fmode=amp

    A lot of those apartments would never be built at all if it wasn't for the investment funds. Builders can't afford to spec build for individual buyers any more.


  • #80
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Quick Question. Looking at a property in Dublin that was sold in 2010 and comparing it against once that is closing sale now.

    From the CSO PPI, it says from March 2010, the index is at 91.8 in Dublin. It is now at 123.9. Does that mean a property that sold in Dublin for 200k in March 2010 should be (129.9-91.8 = 32.1%) should be approximately 200*1.321 = 264k?


  • #81
    LasersGoPewPew
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭LasersGoPewPew


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    A lot of those apartments would never be built at all if it wasn't for the investment funds. Builders can't afford to spec build for individual buyers any more.

    I don't see why the two majority state owned banks can't fund these developments. With Irelands favourable credit rating and the low cost of borrowing these in the past few years the government could float some bonds, inject this capital into the state owned banks and direct it to fund property developers who are building big developments. The properties sell, developers get their profits, banks get paid, and the state reclaims their investment via dividend, VAT and other charges like property tax.


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  • #82
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    MattS1 wrote: »
    Quick Question. Looking at a property in Dublin that was sold in 2010 and comparing it against once that is closing sale now.

    From the CSO PPI, it says from March 2010, the index is at 91.8 in Dublin. It is now at 123.9. Does that mean a property that sold in Dublin for 200k in March 2010 should be (129.9-91.8 = 32.1%) should be approximately 200*1.321 = 264k?

    No it over 40%increase 129.9/91.8=1.415 or a 41.5%increase in price. Hose that was 200k would be technically worth 283k. However this is an inexact science. It would be dependent on quality of house then and now good residential then via a ln ex rental now or a distressed property as old by auction via family home now

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #83
    Knex*
    Registered Users Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    Yeah, I don't necessarily think allowing REITS etc. to fund the new build apartments is the issue. More that we don't punish them for then hoarding empty homes and trying to manipulate the market.

    The argument in favour of offloading the risk to investment funds to finance the construction isn't a terrible one. We just don't follow up with the necessary taxes or laws to balance it out.


  • #84
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Public policy. Is one house not enough for you?

    Listen you keep your business to yourself what you have and dont have and i will do the same, the head on you, you cant buy something you want. I suppose I will only be allowed have one kid to save money on children's allowance, or will we all just get rid of the car and walk to save the planet.

    If someone has worked their hole off to get ahead they should be allowed spend that money on what ever they like

    Why don't you just go full commi and everyone earns the same and gets the same no matter what.


  • #85
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    After the initial build, during which your builders will buy a few pints and roles in the local pubs and shops, you will contribute little or nothing to the local economy. You will make it harder for locals to obtain housing as you have taken a site. You will spend very little money in your holiday area, as you will be mostly self catering and quite likely bringing in your supplies from outside the area. Unoccupied holiday homes in resort areas are a blight. They contribute very little to the local economy and cause a lot of problems.

    So it's better if I spend my money abroad than in my own country?

    What If I do contribute to the local economy when I'm down there? What if I drink in the pubs, I eat in the restaurants, I buy ice-cream near the beach, I buy food in the local shops..?


  • #86
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,206 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Not surprising at all.
    The old 5 day presenteeism office week is dead.

    If it is (which I personally don't believe it is) there'll be just as many downsides as upsides. People should be careful what they wish for.


  • #87
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,651 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    A lot of those apartments would never be built at all if it wasn't for the investment funds. Builders can't afford to spec build for individual buyers any more.

    That is largely untrue. The investment funds that bought over 90% of the newbuild apartments in 2019 did not put up the funds to have them built. They bought them after completion.


  • #88
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,651 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Whats more important? Housing for people working there or people there for a couple of nights

    Possibly the latter, in terms of contribution to the economy, if occupancy was 85%, say.


  • #89
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Naos wrote:
    If I choose to save my money over a number of years and buy or build a second home as a holiday home, where I will be contributing to the local employment & local economy as opposed to pissing it away on holidays abroad, I should not be allowed to do so?


    No issue if that is declared in the planning permission


  • #90
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭Villa05


    cnocbui wrote:
    Possibly the latter, in terms of contribution to the economy, if occupancy was 85%, say.


    If that is the case, would it not make sense for the private market to build accomodation for that purpose rather than pulling stock from existing residential stock.


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  • #91
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,651 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Villa05 wrote: »
    If that is the case, would it not make sense for the private market to build accomodation for that purpose rather than pulling stock from existing residential stock.

    Isn't that exactly what a house on AirBnb is?


This discussion has been closed.
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