How to get published

pickarooney · 23-06-2010 10:49am

You could tell after a couple of pages, or less in some cases, if a book is just not publishable, but how much of a book would you generally read before you're convinced that this will be a seller?

Jellybaby1 · 23-06-2010 8:49pm

I need clarification on the definition of ‘unpublished’. I notice that magazines request that any short stories sent in must be previously unpublished. One of my stories although it was never published in a book or magazine, was in fact accepted and included in a small paper booklet of stories, photocopied and distributed in a local area by a small community group some years ago. Would this be deemed to have been published?

Eoinp · 24-06-2010 1:19am

Tougher answer that one!

I'd say for non-fiction if the topic was one I had been thinking about or if it was an area we knew well and had published on before, so long as the text was decent and the facts right you could tell fairly easily and quickly.

For fiction it is harder because a single scene can break a narrative for you and throw your thinking. For me to be sure on fiction I need to finish the text and think it over!

Eoinp · 24-06-2010 1:20am

Technically that is published but if the the magazine is international I think you'd get away with it! However maybe it's worth writing something new anyway!

Jellybaby1 · 24-06-2010 12:42pm

Thanks for that, and you're probably right, but it was a pretty good story even if I do say so myself, and my creative writing teacher still talks about it 10 years later she was so impressed. At one stage I thought it could have been expanded into a TV series. I'm annoyed I gave it away now! A lesson learned!

Eoinp · 24-06-2010 1:14pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Thanks for that, and you're probably right, but it was a pretty good story even if I do say so myself, and my creative writing teacher still talks about it 10 years later she was so impressed. At one stage I thought it could have been expanded into a TV series. I'm annoyed I gave it away now! A lesson learned!

It could still be so developed. You've hardly given away those rights. In fact you've given away very little except the right to print it on a once off.

All the best,
Eoin

Jellybaby1 · 25-06-2010 12:51am

Thanks again for your input. It needs more thought, will do.

MonkeySocks24 · 25-06-2010 1:59am

Hi Eoin,

This may be a silly question but going to ask it anyway. Would it be ok to submit three chapters to a publisher even if you don't have the book completed? So, I can have an idea if it is actually any good? I finished a book and sent it into publishers but they replied saying the book was 'too dark' but they hope I find a happy home for it, they said some nice things about the book but probably to soften the blow. I scraped that book and started writing a different one. Ive lost confidence in the first book because it was rejected.

Lady Tottington · 26-06-2010 9:31am

Hi Eoin -this is a fascinating thread, thanks v much for your insight

If my book (teen fiction) has been rejected by a few publishers, would I be burning bridges with the publishing world if I posted it online for free?

If my book isn't fashionable now, it may be fashionable in a few years time (look at all those vampire books!). I don't want to rule myself out of contention for publication.

Flushdraw · 28-06-2010 11:22am

Eoinp wrote: »

First off 5-10 is far too broad and cuts across a very segmented market.
See here (http://www.obrien.ie/category.cfm?categoryID=23) for an idea of how O'Brien Press, one of Ireland's largest publishers for children split their list and here (http://littleisland.ie/) for a sense of what Little Island (a new children's and YA imprint) does.

Not all children's books have illustrations and in general those that do will either be the work of an author/illustrator or the illustrations will be commissioned by the publisher (who will also pay for them).

One word of warning, illustrated books are expensive, sell for low prices and are very very hard to market unless you are Julia Donaldson or Oliver Jeffers. It's a tough market and most Irish publishers cannot afford to compete in the space.

My advice, write a good book, submit and let the publisher worry about the package!

Eoin

Hi Eoin,

I've a similar idea. I've been telling the kids bedtime stories for the past 2 years. All the stories base themselves around a particular character who's the focal point of every story. The kids tell their school friends and i told the stories to about 7-8 of them on a couple of occassions when the kids had friends over and they loved it.

I'd like to have a go at getting some of these stories published but i'd like to patent/copyright the the central character. He has a couple of friends who help him in the stories, and the kids have said they'd love to have cuddly toys of these, so i'd beginning to think that their could be something at the end of this.

What's the best way to protect my work, or do i just need to send the stories to a couple of childrens publishers and see what happens?

Thanks for doing this thread.

Tony

Eoinp · 29-06-2010 9:15am

First of all, sorry for the delayed response.

I'd caution against this if it is fiction for two reasons:
1) if they like it they'll want the whole thing and you will piss them off by not having it
2) frankly, submitting an unfinished manuscript probably means it's not ready for submission

Eoin

Eoinp · 29-06-2010 9:19am

Now that is a question.

1) Only do so if you don't ind that this work will never get published in a traditional manner again. It may well, but it is unlikely. If you aren' cool with that then don't

2) If you do put it online, you won't kill your chances per say, but make sure the site looks good. In fact it might serve (so long as it's good) as a calling card or portfolio.

3) Only make it free with a strategy. Why are you making it free, what do you hope to achieve? Would just a sample achieve your ends? Would you be better using something like smashwords or your own site? Might the book work well if you hand sold it to schools or slowly but surely built up an audience. If you follow this path, you are the publisher and need to think through strategy, goals, tactics and plans, simply puttings something online for free is a waste of time.

Eoin

Eoinp · 29-06-2010 9:25am

Flushdraw wrote: »

Hi Eoin,

I've a similar idea. I've been telling the kids bedtime stories for the past 2 years. All the stories base themselves around a particular character who's the focal point of every story. The kids tell their school friends and i told the stories to about 7-8 of them on a couple of occassions when the kids had friends over and they loved it.

I'd like to have a go at getting some of these stories published but i'd like to patent/copyright the the central character. He has a couple of friends who help him in the stories, and the kids have said they'd love to have cuddly toys of these, so i'd beginning to think that their could be something at the end of this.

What's the best way to protect my work, or do i just need to send the stories to a couple of childrens publishers and see what happens?

Thanks for doing this thread.

Tony

Tony,

The best way to protect your work is to write it.

Once it's written make sure you have a digital and hardcopy version and back the digital copy up. Document your submissions to publishers or agents and submit selective to publishers or agents capable of delivering in a project of scale. Though keep in mind that more than likely, even if the concept is good, any initial launch will be modest (publishers, even big ones, like small bets or SURE THINGS).

If you are dealing with reputable publishers and agents your work will not be misused and even if it is you will have a trail of documentary evidence backing up your position.

But as I say, write the work first, worry about protection afterwards!

Eoin

Eoinp · 29-06-2010 9:30am

One final point which I neglected to mention on this though is that when it comes to contract stage, if you really believe that there is potential on the merchandise and sub rights side of things, either make sure they publisher pays a bigger advance or that you get the lions share of royalties (check that the advance AND royalties go mostly to you). Try and insert a renegotiation clause or a term limit on the deal if you are happy short term but fear long term you will be burned! I'd be thinking if the property is as impressive as you think that an agent is an unavoidable necessity for you during that stage.

On the other hand, remember that it is VERY hard to break a new series of characters or any scale or impact, don't be TOO precious about the deal if one comes your way.

Eoin

Ruthie-Roux · 29-06-2010 12:01pm

Hi Eoin,

I am in the process of writing a novel and was originally planning to submit the synopsis and three chapters to an irish publishing house and /or seek a literary agent to act on my behalf.
My questions are:
1--Since my genre is sci-fi/horror , I feel that I may have a better chance by approaching a UK or US publisher. HOWEVER, I am aware that as a first time novelist, my work would have a better chance if it was presented by a literary agent. So, should I look for an irish agent to pitch my work to US publishing houses or should I seek a US agent to do so? Would an Irish literary agent typically pitch a manuscript to foreign publishing houses?

2-Is there any limit to the number of publishers I can approach? Just say for example, I aqquired a literary agent who successfully secured a book deal for me--could I also deal with separate publishers indepently and enter into another/multiple book deals/publishing arrangments with various publishers? IE- one in Ireland, two in UK, one in US? (Not that I ever expect to be so lucky...just wondering about submitting to different publishers at once)

Thanks in advance for your patience and time with my questions,
Ruth

Eoinp · 29-06-2010 3:23pm

Good question.

Given that your are writing a genre that is rarely if ever published by Irish publishers, I think you should approach either a UK/US agent or a UK/US Publisher.

Secondly given the way the Sci-Fi genre has developed an agent is really the best route to publication.

Think about your genre and the niche you fil in it. Find the top three or four agents and approach them one by one. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't work, but I'd wait until they reply before sending multiple submissions.

IF you do send multiples, make sure to alert the agent to that fact in your cover letter and if by chance you are taken on by another agent, do let anyone with your material know.

You're freedom to approach other publishers would be limited by whatever terms you agreed with the agent. My feeling is that the agent would not like the situation you have described as it would mean you were offering different work to publishers while they were trying to represent you and it would make them look unprofessional. Also, your agent is likely to get you a better deal.

In terms of submitting more than one book to different publishers (with or without an agent) this seems like a bad idea to me. Concentrate on the first deal and take it from there. Getting published is only 1/3 of the battle. Writing the book is the first third, and selling it is the last! Having multiple books on sale at once (unless you are James Patterson and have effectively unlimited budgets) is a recipe for diaster for a new author.

Denerick · 29-06-2010 8:26pm

Hi Eoin,

How do you evaluate a literary novel? And would you ever be prepared to take 'a punt' on someone? For example, William Goldings 'Lord of the Flies' initially only sold 3,000 copies and then took off a few years later to become one of the worlds top selling novels...

Eoinp · 29-06-2010 10:41pm

To be fair Literary Fiction is not my strong suit, but I think the process would be similar to any commission, you have to take a punt of some kind. Every decision to publish is a calculated risk, some minor, some larger a very few major.

Publishing Literary Fiction is a bigger risk than publishing non-fiction in defined genres. Selling 3000 copies is actually a damn fine outcome in many markets (not least our own).

So the short answer is it's all taking a punt. (though if its an established author literary fiction less so).

blue.jester · 30-06-2010 3:46pm

Hi Eoin,

Been reading some of your replies with great interest, this is just what was needed in Ireland to be honest. Most of what you find on the web seems to indicate that only books on farming or for schools get published here :-)

One question I have myself. I've finished a manuscript that would be classed as comedy fantasy. Are there any publishers in Ireland that would even consider looking at something like that, or do I need to start looking at UK/US based ones?

Thanks in advance.

Robbyn · 30-06-2010 10:53pm

My question has already been asked and I was delighted with the reply. thanks a lot for your help

It's really appreciated.

Eoinp · 30-06-2010 10:54pm

Tough call,

The thing to consider when looking at who to approach with a book of that nature you have to think risk versus reward for a publisher.

In a market of 4-million potential buyers the pool of readers for any niche is fairly limited. That makes publishing for a small niche like say comic-fantasy an even bigger risk than say books for farmers and schools*.

What's more any publisher willing to take it on in Ireland has little or no experience publishing that kind of book in Ireland so how could you trust them to do a good job. For certain genres that's fine (say more commercial fiction or fiction that sits well with their main list) but comic-fantasy, sci-fi and some other niches are much more specialised and would be better published by an imprint or house with extensive experience in the space. For those genres, if you can get an agent or publisher in the UK or US, I would!

That's assuming there isn't an agent who does a lot of business in the sci-fi and comic fantasy in Ireland, to my knowledge there is not.
Eoin

*Educational publishing is by the by one of ur strongest native publishing sectors. Irish companies do very well in this space.

Eoinp · 30-06-2010 10:55pm

No problem, glad to be of help!

blue.jester · 01-07-2010 9:04am

Thanks for that Eoin, now I know what my plan of action needs to be.

damselnat · 06-07-2010 10:16am

Hi guys, I've had a quick search around here and I couldn't find any threads on this, so I thought I'd start one; the writer's very favourite thing in the world, the one part of the book we just cannot wait to get started on - the synopsis (yes I'm being sarcastic!).
Basically I'm looking for any advice, particularly from anyone who is in any way at with or familiar with such things. I've got to that wonderful stage, having finished the novel, done several drafts, and am ready to send it off. But I'm getting stuck on the old ****** of a synopsis. There are so many conflicting rules around, about how long it should be, how much you can leave in or out, what to definitely include and what to never include, the difference between an outline and a synopsis...the list goes on. So what are agents/publishers looking for in a synopsis, and what are the sure fire tips for writing a good, eye catching, enthralling synopsis that will pique their interest in seeing the full MS, and what can one do to bump up a synopsis that seems to be flagging (and even, perhaps, write one that is a pleasure to both read and write? :eek:)
Any help/advice greatly appreciated!!

pickarooney · 06-07-2010 12:03pm

I'm not sure if this is something you can answer Eoin, but I'm wondering about using a couple of lines of a song's lyrics in a book. Is there a certain amount you can get away with before having to ask for the rights to reproduce them? Is it better to just make up my own lyrics to be on the safe side?

Eoinp · 06-07-2010 12:13pm

The requirement for synopsis and outlines changes by agent/publisher so my advice is as follows:

1) Research you genre and find the right agent or publisher for you.
2) Choose your agent/publisher making sure they accept the type of manuscript you've written.
3) Write a synopsis or outline to their guidelines (if they don't have any, ask them before sending).
4) Submit as per guidelines.

General points
A synopsis should be concise, if it's more than two pages (and I'd argue one, it's too long). If you've been able to rewrite and edit down the manuscript itself, you must have a tight idea of the script so try writing back jacket copy description that you think would work for a reader, that should entice the agent/publisher.

Generally there are a number of agents out there writing about what takes them in terms of synopsis and cover letters, send some time thinking through those posts. Sometimes they contradict and that's okay, you can decided which points resonate with you.

An outline is generally something more useful for a non-fiction title and would involve a chapter breakdown with paragraph length description of paragraphs.

Eoinp · 06-07-2010 12:44pm

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is something you can answer Eoin, but I'm wondering about using a couple of lines of a song's lyrics in a book. Is there a certain amount you can get away with before having to ask for the rights to reproduce them? Is it better to just make up my own lyrics to be on the safe side?

There is an allowance for using small amounts of a work without permission. Off the top of my head I can't recall. It depends on the size of the song/poem.

In any case most publishers will be reasonable about such things so contact them and ask permission if you get to the stage of publication, prior to publication, there's no need to worry about it too much.

Eoin

dawvee · 06-07-2010 3:40pm

Eoinp wrote: »

a chapter breakdown with paragraph length description of paragraphs.

I know it's not what you meant, but I just got a laugh out of the idea of an 'outline' that consisted of chapter breakdowns with paragraph-length descriptions of each paragraph; It's like a book, just rephrased.

Eoinp · 07-07-2010 12:55pm

dawvee wrote: »

I know it's not what you meant, but I just got a laugh out of the idea of an 'outline' that consisted of chapter breakdowns with paragraph-length descriptions of each paragraph; It's like a book, just rephrased.

yes that ought to have read with paragraph length breakdowns of chapters! Sorry, was in a rush!

steveoracle · 08-07-2010 10:13am

I recommend writing the first three chapters of your book and a summary. Then submit to publishers. If you're unsuccessful then you don't need to waste the time finishing the book, if you are successful then you'll be motivated to get it finished. You can even let publishers know you done this.

S

How to get published

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