Becoming a secondary school teacher

Treppen · 29-06-2020 4:40pm

Notorious wrote: »

Just thought I'd post some advice (also words of warning) as a teacher to IT sector employees thinking of moving into teaching. I notice a few posters have suggested it here.

I completed a postgrad in Software Development as I have been teaching coding to further ed students for the last five years. I also teach second level in two other subjects and I thought I'd officially add another string to my bow, especially since coding is being integrated into the LC program.

Long story short, the teaching council have consistently told me that they're not registering teachers as Comp Sci teachers at the moment. Recently they haven't been replying to my emails, and I last spoke to someone in the teaching council in December. I keep being told that the TC haven't set the criteria for registering as a Comp Sci teacher, even though they told me before I began the postgrad that a course with 120 credits would enable me to register.

Some schools are running the Comp Sci programme with LC students so it baffles me as to how a teacher can't register with the subject.

Yet another reason to abolish the Teaching Council.

BTW there was a pilot course in UCD specifically tied into the CS LC so that would have been kosher. It was about 5 years ago!

I'll try and dig out the modules if I can as I presume the TC have to align to that.

TC are into pedagogy modules and assignments/case studies based on ongoing school teaching so there might always be that hoop to jump through. LIT and Letterkenny IT have post-grad diplomas geared towards secondary so there could be some hope of doing partial modules if the TC start their usual refusals.

mtoutlemonde · 29-06-2020 4:42pm

Notorious wrote: »

Just thought I'd post some advice (also words of warning) as a teacher to IT sector employees thinking of moving into teaching. I notice a few posters have suggested it here.

I completed a postgrad in Software Development as I have been teaching coding to further ed students for the last five years. I also teach second level in two other subjects and I thought I'd officially add another string to my bow, especially since coding is being integrated into the LC program.

Long story short, the teaching council have consistently told me that they're not registering teachers as Comp Sci teachers at the moment. Recently they haven't been replying to my emails, and I last spoke to someone in the teaching council in December. I keep being told that the TC haven't set the criteria for registering as a Comp Sci teacher, even though they told me before I began the postgrad that a course with 120 credits would enable me to register.

Some schools are running the Comp Sci programme with LC students so it baffles me as to how a teacher can't register with the subject.

Yeah I'm in the same boat but I did additional study for other subjects. I rang a long time ago and it ended up with me giving up as I would have been better off talking to the dog. I will try again as I think it is important that computer science is now a subject and this should be updated for teachers involved. I don't think in all honesty, there would be many teachers affected. The Teaching Council will probably want to assess your qualifications for a fee though.

Yes just to reiterate, unless you have the required number of credits with additional study, the only engineering degree which entitles you to teach maths is the Bachelor of Engineering. If you don't have at least one subject excluding Computer Science, I wouldn't bother forking out for a PME where you will be years on the subbing circuit.

r93kaey5p2izun · 29-06-2020 5:01pm

stiofan85 wrote: »

Yeah, I've a few pieces of paper.

Didn't realise that about engineering, I'll look into it. Thanks

Well if those pieces of paper are Level 8 degrees or Hdips then hopefully you will be all set. If they're Level 7 they won't count and if Level 9 Masters then you could struggle to get the content recognised, believe it or not!

Just be very certain you will be qualified for the subjects. Particularly if you are an engineer just be aware that there are very few Eng degrees recognised for anything except Applied Maths. And during the last recession there were a lot of dismayed engineers forking out a lot of money adding on credits to satisfy the TC.

Treppen · 29-06-2020 5:06pm

I think the department are not pushed about a massive role out of CS. They'll stay on message and keep media happy by taking about its current roll out with the pilot schools for the next decade or so.

Took them about 40 years to look at maths teaching qualification requirements. And even then the course has been shelved.

Who knows though, some minister might run with it.
Creating another minority subject is a nightmare for timetables and contracts though. It'll go the way of Applied Maths for a lot of schools, lunchtime and after hours.

Mardy Bum · 29-06-2020 5:07pm

stiofan85 wrote: »

Yeah, I've a few pieces of paper.

Didn't realise that about engineering, I'll look into it. Thanks

You have to complete specific modules as well for each subject. Having a level 8 degree is not even enough.

stiofan85 · 29-06-2020 6:19pm

Thanks all. Hearing you loud and clear: check with the teacher's council. Will get on it.

I was just looking at my credits there and I've a far stronger case for computer science, but less than I thought for physics. I'm just a bit done with programming at this point. TBH I'd be happy teaching maths and applied maths. It's the main draw for me with teaching.

Cheers for all the input. Well warned

Notorious · 29-06-2020 6:26pm

Treppen wrote: »

Yet another reason to abolish the Teaching Council.

BTW there was a pilot course in UCD specifically tied into the CS LC so that would have been kosher. It was about 5 years ago!

The course I did was actually recommended to me by my ETB - they wanted to get some teachers geared up. The most frustrating part is that the TC won't even engage in a conversation with me.

mtoutlemonde · 29-06-2020 6:44pm

stiofan85 wrote: »

Thanks all. Hearing you loud and clear: check with the teacher's council. Will get on it.

I was just looking at my credits there and I've a far stronger case for computer science, but less than I thought for physics. I'm just a bit done with programming at this point. TBH I'd be happy teaching maths and applied maths. It's the main draw for me with teaching.

Cheers for all the input. Well warned

I was told when I was doing my degree that I would register for ICT, maths, physics and my language but that was pre Teaching Council. That wasn't the case upon graduation. I'm very close to maths probably like yourself but when I looked into doing it - it was expensive and not worth it for me as it was my language subject that I wanted to teach. That was a number of years ago before any Irish universities decided to offer programmes for people in my situation. You would want definite confirmation that you can register for maths. You can register under category 3 and see how you get on.

Dickie10 · 29-06-2020 9:55pm

OP just be sure you actually like being around teenagers, the teaching of your subject is a good chunk of the job, but you would need to be able to fill numerous roles as secondary teacher. From part social worker to secretary, to pyschologist. You also may need to get stuck into extra curricular activities and be willing to do learning support etc to fill up your hours. You really need to be a people person.

Treppen · 30-06-2020 9:29am

stiofan85 wrote: »

Thanks all. Hearing you loud and clear: check with the teacher's council. Will get on it.

I was just looking at my credits there and I've a far stronger case for computer science, but less than I thought for physics. I'm just a bit done with programming at this point. TBH I'd be happy teaching maths and applied maths. It's the main draw for me with teaching.

Cheers for all the input. Well warned

That's your opinion though, be very careful. The teaching council haven't even recognised the course in UCD which was run specifically for the pilot school teachers a few years ago.
Although in saying that LIT and Letterkenny IT are now running teacher post-grad courses which I think they've tried to keep exactly to the same modules which the pilot course had, so maybe compare and contrast with your own modules there as well. Those colleges probably are taking a bet that when the pilot course gets the stamp then the TC must also give the others the stamp.

Laprincesse · 05-07-2020 8:40pm

Hi all, looking for some advice. Considering PME in post primary. Have read lots (here) about people struggling for jobs - is this true? I am not in a position to pay for the course and risk being unemployed afterwards...my subjects would be ML and SPHE... TIA

History Queen · 05-07-2020 8:56pm

Laprincesse wrote: »

Hi all, looking for some advice. Considering PME in post primary. Have read lots (here) about people struggling for jobs - is this true? I am not in a position to pay for the course and risk being unemployed afterwards...my subjects would be ML and SPHE... TIA

What is ML? Is it a language? If so, which one? SPHE is ofen used as a "filler subject" on people's timetables so wouldn't be great for securing a job.

Without knowing your other subject in general, you can be lucky and get a full time contract straight out of college but that is rare, very much so. Generally you're looking at a few years of casual subbing/short term contracts and not being paid during Easter/Christmas/Summer etc.

Laprincesse · 05-07-2020 9:06pm

@History Queen - Thanks for the reply. Yes, Modern Languages. Specifically French and German but willing to teach (and qualify in) more if needs be. To do the PME I have to have the 2nd so the college recommended SPHE.

Reading on these threads, it appears to be difficult but speaking to family in the sector, they think my subjects are great and I shouldn't have a problem getting work at all... mixed messages

History Queen · 05-07-2020 9:10pm

Laprincesse wrote: »

@History Queen - Thanks for the reply. Yes, Modern Languages. Specifically French and German but willing to teach (and qualify in) more if needs be. To do the PME I have to have the 2nd so the college recommended SPHE.

Reading on these threads, it appears to be difficult but speaking to family in the sector, they think my subjects are great and I shouldn't have a problem getting work at all... mixed messages

Your family are correct in that French and German are in demand subjects. I would expect someone like you to do well with getting work HOWEVER that could still include covering maternity leaves/sick leaves etc until you get two consecutive years of your own hours in a school leading to a CID (closest thing to permanency) or you could walk in to a contract of your own straight out of college and end up staying there. Impossible to predict.

Edit: location also plays a role, what part of the country roughly would you be looking for work? How flexible on location would you be?

Laprincesse · 05-07-2020 9:16pm

The impossibility of the prediction is what gets me :-( Alot of money, time & effort without a guaranteed reward!

I'm in the East and no, not really too flexible with location.

History Queen · 05-07-2020 9:21pm

Laprincesse wrote: »

The impossibility of the prediction is what gets me :-( Alot of money, time & effort without a guaranteed reward!

I'm in the East and no, not really too flexible with location.

If you're commutable to Dublin that's a lot of schools. If you look (particularly towards the end of July/all of August this year) at educationposts.ie you'll see where the jobsare currently being advertised and get some sense of demand.

Best of luck with your decision.

Laprincesse · 05-07-2020 9:36pm

Thank you. Looking at the moment, the ads appear to favour Dublin South/Centre. North would suit me more.

One more question for you. Is there any truth in the idea that a younger graduate would get more offers than a mature student? This has been said to me - that being a mature student may make it harder for me to get a job..

History Queen · 05-07-2020 9:48pm

Laprincesse wrote: »

Thank you. Looking at the moment, the ads appear to favour Dublin South/Centre. North would suit me more.

One more question for you. Is there any truth in the idea that a younger graduate would get more offers than a mature student? This has been said to me - that being a mature student may make it harder for me to get a job..

I honestly couldn't tell you. In my own school mature graduates and younger graduates have been hired in recent years. Roughly 2/3 younger to 1/3mature. But, to be fair, there are probably more new graduates than mature going for every job so I wouldn't say that's a reflection on the attitude towards the age profile of the candidates if that makes sense?

Laprincesse · 05-07-2020 9:54pm

Ok, it does make sense - thank you :-)

mirrorwall14 · 06-07-2020 12:13am

Laprincesse wrote: »

@History Queen - Thanks for the reply. Yes, Modern Languages. Specifically French and German but willing to teach (and qualify in) more if needs be. To do the PME I have to have the 2nd so the college recommended SPHE.

Reading on these threads, it appears to be difficult but speaking to family in the sector, they think my subjects are great and I shouldn't have a problem getting work at all... mixed messages

Have you got a degree with both french and German as degree level subjects? Just checking because you may need to check that doing only one pedagogy counting for both french and German (with SPHE as your second) may not count for the teaching council. They can be exceptionally picky about what they register as your subjects

Dickie10 · 06-07-2020 10:27pm

Teaching has become very casualised as a profession in the last few years. Its almost like USA now where you need a second job or sideline niche along with it. Some people already have the sideline or niche industry or business and choose teaching to go with it. Its a tough career to choose if your planning the 2.4 children , house and dog. Becoming more of a lifestyle choice now. There are not many jobs where you spend 5 years in University to be delighted to land a part time job.

Becoming a secondary school teacher

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