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School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    What Im not impressed about is that no plan will be finalised until late July. Exactly how principals are meant to do a timetable is beyond me. The Department have not covered themselves in glory, since all of this begun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Polka_Dot


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    What Im not impressed about is that no plan will be finalised until late July. Exactly how principals are meant to do a timetable is beyond me. The Department have not covered themselves in glory, since all of this begun.

    The situation is constantly evolving. IMO, even a finalised plan in late July may not be ideal come September.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    It doesn't matter how the situation is evolving. There are certain knowns in this situation.I am reading they appear to only be "getting into the nitty gritty " of reopening now.Now??They have had since March 12th to do this.I would give a month or so grace due to the confusion of the first few weeks, but realistically they have had the guts of 4 months to "start talking" about this. Talking should be WAY beyond just starting now.

    They don't know what the situation will be like come September, sure, but there are certain things they have known for at least 4 if not 8 weeks that will have to be built into reopening arrangements.Discussions could -should - have started much earlier.They are scrambling from start to finish on this, and it is a total and complete shambles for the teachers, parents and children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭morebabies


    What annoyed me watching the Oireachtas Committee meeting today about the reopening was that as far as I could tell, they just kept repeating the same thing "we are aiming for a full reopening of schools in September". All the "But what about if.." questions were met with the same mantra, it's like there is no Plan B.

    But even the dogs on the street know we're probably looking at a big resurgence of cases in autumn /winter. As the above poster said, they now have had a lot of time to plan for different scenarios, and yet...apparently haven't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Random sample


    Aengus o snodaigh asked some good questions, but waffled on so much afterwards that o foghlu didn’t remember them by the time he got a chance to answer.

    I’m scared for September after listening to that. There doesn’t seem to be a plan at all.

    One td asked if there would be extra teachers available for schools who have spare rooms, so they could spread the students out. Do these schools exist?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    morebabies wrote: »
    What annoyed me watching the Oireachtas Committee meeting today about the reopening was that as far as I could tell, they just kept repeating the same thing "we are aiming for a full reopening of schools in September".
    I had the exact same reaction. My home county AIMS to bring the McCarthy cup home every year, but 61 years later we're empty handed.

    Saying you want to open isn't very helpful at all. Tell us how you want it done, tell us how much money, where will the extra teachers come from etc.

    It struck me that they were placating the media and parents in the hope they wouldn't wonder what the alternative was, were their Aim not realised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,701 ✭✭✭amacca



    I’m scared for September after listening to that. There doesn’t seem to be a plan at all.

    One td asked if there would be extra teachers available for schools who have spare rooms, so they could spread the students out. Do these schools exist?

    Not in my experience....most of them seemed to need extra room and were forced into renting temporary prefabs (possibly at much more expensive rates than an actual building would have been)

    Im sure there are some but I'm presuming schools with loads of extra room are in the minority.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    To be honest they should be throwing money at Education to help solve this.
    If we get to a point where we can have pubs open, but not schools, there will be serious unrest among people.We have had enough of this, children have been treated disgracefully by the Government since March.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Obviously opening schools is important .
    The plan will just allow money for extra cleaners and substitution.
    However if you want to hire extra teachers the ads would want to be rolling out soon. Is there still a problem with teacher recruitment? Im out of touch . Can teachers still go abroad to better places ?
    What about teacher sick leave? How long must I wait for a covid test now etc
    The ' voluntary' nature of secondary schools mean they department will wash their hands of a lot of responsibility!


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,129 ✭✭✭✭km79


    When you look at ULs proposed “plan “ for third level students it is hard to balance that up against a full return for primary and secondary students


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    The sick leave issue will become a wider societal one too...if I keep my child home if they are showing signs of being unwell, (which actually I would normally, because I don't think it is fair to expect a sick child to sit in school), then really I should be at home too on the off-chance that I could be infectious if the child is.My own employer would be ok with home working and flexibility but many won't, even after everything that has happened

    I have not got any faith in our new Government, if I am honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Random sample


    amacca wrote: »
    Not in my experience....most of them seemed to need extra room and were forced into renting temporary prefabs (possibly at much more expensive rates than an actual building would have been)

    Im sure there are some but I'm presuming schools with loads of extra room are in the minority.

    I didn’t want to come straight out and call him deluded. I presume there’s one school in his constituency in this situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭scrubs33


    Was talking to one of our staff reps on the BoM yesterday and the feeling from the Principal is that the sports hall will not be made available for socially distanced non sports classes which got me thinking. How will kids who have PE especially first thing in the morning manage? Arrive in sports gear grand but will there be a place to change given that current GAA guidelines say players go straight home after a game. I hope the powers that be on a national level have every scenario covered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    What Im not impressed about is that no plan will be finalised until late July. Exactly how principals are meant to do a timetable is beyond me. The Department have not covered themselves in glory, since all of this begun.


    I would be with Polka Dot on this one. Infection figures are likely to increase in the coming weeks and things will need to be assessed nearer to the time. The prevailing advice on distancing will have such an impact on classrooms that timetables will be ad hoc last minute jobs I'd say given the different physical configurations of schools. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they were still a subject of very active discussion when we resume.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭Rosita


    scrubs33 wrote: »
    Was talking to one of our staff reps on the BoM yesterday and the feeling from the Principal is that the sports hall will not be made available for socially distanced non sports classes which got me thinking. How will kids who have PE especially first thing in the morning manage? Arrive in sports gear grand but will there be a place to change given that current GAA guidelines say players go straight home after a game.

    I would say school protocol rather than GAA guidelines will inform these decisions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/08/victorias-year-11-and-12-to-return-to-school-despite-covid-19-cluster-at-al-taqwa-college?fbclid=IwAR0UeJO0nazP5ZBkwCMMjBlU5eLRl-1Fq0yeA4wCausijkFHpfa1RjPRvt4

    Concerning. Student to student transmission between older teens in Australian school resulting in big cluster in school and community.

    Did anyone read Norma's interview published in the Sindo today? I see she is being heavily criticised across the board based on it. Evasive apparently, but I haven't read it myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,129 ✭✭✭✭km79


    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/08/victorias-year-11-and-12-to-return-to-school-despite-covid-19-cluster-at-al-taqwa-college?fbclid=IwAR0UeJO0nazP5ZBkwCMMjBlU5eLRl-1Fq0yeA4wCausijkFHpfa1RjPRvt4

    Concerning. Student to student transmission between older teens in Australian school resulting in big cluster in school and community.

    Did anyone read Norma's interview published in the Sindo today? I see she is being heavily criticised across the board based on it. Evasive apparently, but I haven't read it myself.

    Everything I’ve seen and heard from her backs up my initial fears that she is a parochial politician who is now way way way out of her depth
    The gist of the interview is “I am too busy to answer your difficult questions “


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    km79 wrote: »
    Everything I’ve seen and heard from her backs up my initial fears that she is a parochial politician who is now way way way out of her depth
    The gist of the interview is “I am too busy to answer your difficult questions “

    she took poor advice. She should have read up on her briefs and then spoke. However writing her off after what two weeks is too premature.
    We have enough politicians who say sweet **** all extensively as it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    km79 wrote: »
    Everything I’ve seen and heard from her backs up my initial fears that she is a parochial politician who is now way way way out of her depth
    The gist of the interview is “I am too busy to answer your difficult questions “

    I look forward to throwing that line at an inspector next time they are in my class. 'Sorry chief, I'm too busy to answer your questions '


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Just had a read of that interview and it was such a pointless exercise that you could not judge a prospective Minister for Education on it.

    Right now, in July 2020, when the standout issue is how schools will resume in the autumn it scarcely merits mention. Instead the journalist is trying to corner her on questions about sex, gender, abortion, and as weirdly as any other - how much was the voluntary contribution in her school. In what way is the voluntary contribution in her school of national importance? And if her saying she doesn't know what it was is an issue...…......……………..well, I don't know what it is in my school either. But I'm sure a phone call or email would garner that info fairly quickly. Whether that nugget of information would make me a better potential Minister for Education is another matter.

    It looks to me like an interview set up as an ambush. I'd be surprised if the Minister has anything else of significance on her plate right now other than schools resuming but it is hardy mentioned.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Rosita wrote: »
    Just had a read of that interview and it was such a pointless exercise that you could not judge a prospective Minister for Education on it.

    Right now, in July 2020, when the standout issue is how schools will resume in the autumn is scarcely merits mention. Instead the journalist is trying to corner her on questions about sex, gender, abortion, and as weirdly as any other - how much was the voluntary contribution in her school. In what way is the voluntary contribution in her school of national importance? And if her saying she doesn't know what it was is an issue...…......……………..well, I don't know what it is in my school either. But I'm sure a phone call or email would garner that info fairly quickly. Whether that nugget of information would make me a better potential Minister for Education is another matter.

    It looks to me like an interview set up as an ambush. I'd be surprised if the Minister has anything else of significance on her plate right now other than schools resuming but it is hardy mentioned.

    She just should not have done it unless she had something new to say . She didn't. Is transgender such a huge issue with everything else going on? Why is it that media types and politicians think it's so important right now ? It seems these types drag it up at every opportunity. Meanwhile chronicically underfunded schools continue which affect ALL students. It deserves a full interview on its own.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    I look forward to throwing that line at an inspector next time they are in my class. 'Sorry chief, I'm too busy to answer your questions '

    I look forward to the conversation about the lack of group work next year :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    I have to admit to being incredibly frustrated at this rage, god help management they must be climbing the walls. It’s now mid July and we still don’t know how it will work going back in September.

    I want to use this time to plan but I can’t. Too many question as yet unanswered, are we part online, are we teaching full syllabi, are subjects being reduced, are we doing pods at Second level (affects subject choices), will school choir be allowed, how do I plan the school show or do we need to replace that with something else this year. It’s annoying me no end


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,129 ✭✭✭✭km79


    I have to admit to being incredibly frustrated at this rage, god help management they must be climbing the walls. It’s now mid July and we still don’t know how it will work going back in September.

    I want to use this time to plan but I can’t. Too many question as yet unanswered, are we part online, are we teaching full syllabi, are subjects being reduced, are we doing pods at Second level (affects subject choices), will school choir be allowed, how do I plan the school show or do we need to replace that with something else this year. It’s annoying me no end

    Agreed
    I would say you can forget about the school show tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    The Norma interview was not only embarrassing with regards to what she would do with education but concerning with her take on reproductive rights.

    I'm not expecting her to have all the answers, but she didn't even understand the questions on Sunday. For a teacher who's fresh out of the classroom and understands the answers that we want, that's bad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I have to admit to being incredibly frustrated at this rage, god help management they must be climbing the walls. It’s now mid July and we still don’t know how it will work going back in September.

    I want to use this time to plan but I can’t. Too many question as yet unanswered, are we part online, are we teaching full syllabi, are subjects being reduced, are we doing pods at Second level (affects subject choices), will school choir be allowed, how do I plan the school show or do we need to replace that with something else this year. It’s annoying me no end

    My sympathy goes out to those who still expect professionalism from the Department. You won't get it. Id decide what you want to do. Extra curricular is not mandatory. I gave up on that years ago after the crash and our treatment.
    As for planning I'd do it as much as you can . You are experienced so you can adjust.
    Sorry I'm in a cynical mood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    The Norma interview was not only embarrassing with regards to what she would do with education but concerning with her take on reproductive rights.

    I'm not expecting her to have all the answers, but she didn't even understand the questions on Sunday. For a teacher who's fresh out of the classroom and understands the answers that we want, that's bad.

    Reproductive Rights ?Why was she asked about that. What am I missing? Exactly what does that have to do with her portfolio? She is entitled to her views. Are you talking about abortion legislation. That will be reviewed and every TD should have their conscience respected. Abortion is now available. Unlike many other health services.
    . The 8th amendment is gone but some people are on a permanent victory lap. Not saying you are but that's the vibe I get.(In general)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    The Norma interview was not only embarrassing with regards to what she would do with education but concerning with her take on reproductive rights.

    I'm not expecting her to have all the answers, but she didn't even understand the questions on Sunday. For a teacher who's fresh out of the classroom and understands the answers that we want, that's bad.

    She is a councillor since 1991. She must have a real drive for public service and a great sense of duty to her community. It is nothing to do with her being a member of a political dynasty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Reproductive Rights ?Why was she asked about that. What am I missing? Exactly what does that have to do with her portfolio? She is entitled to her views. Are you talking about abortion legislation. That will be reviewed and every TD should have their conscience respected. Abortion is now available. Unlike many other health services.
    . The 8th amendment is gone but some people are on a permanent victory lap. Not saying you are but that's the vibe I get.

    SPHE is a subject in school and has been under attack from right wing nuts since its introduction. It is currently under sustained attack from zealots.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    My sympathy goes out to those who still expect professionalism from the Department. You won't get it. Id decide what you want to do. Extra curricular is not mandatory. I gave up on that years ago after the crash and our treatment.
    As for planning I'd do it as much as you can . You are experienced so you can adjust.
    Sorry I'm in a cynical mood.

    School choir is extra curricular and yeah I can see that not happening but School show is built into the TY timetable now. Current plan in my head is to flip the year and do all the intro to LC music, music technology etc first and assume show will be later.


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