Repeating Senior Infants

Kebab · 10-03-2021 4:46pm #1

Hi all

My daughter started school at 4 years 4 months. At the time, we didn't realise it was quite young to start school. She is now in Senior Infants. Since she started, I have worried a lot about how she is getting on, how she is relating to the other kids, how she is progressing with her reading/writing etc. Having spent so much time homeschooling her, the reading/writing is obviously not her strong point, her concentration/focus (with me anyway and her teacher has confirmed, in class sometimes too) is not great, however, she is good at maths, presenting in class and is a confident, happy, friendly little girl. She has made friends and acc to her teacher, overall is getting on fine.

I am probably hyper aware of her being one of the youngest in her class and have read a lot online about how kids should be 5+ starting school, which is all underlining my worry about having started her too young. We have approached her school who are being very flexible and will allow her to stay back if we decide she should.

My gut says it would really benefit her. My husband however, thinks entirely differently. He thinks she is getting on fine, is happy, confident, friendly and he is really worried that holding her back would affect her confidence badly. Whereas he is purely looking at the situation now, I am looking at the fact that she will be 12 and 4 months starting First Year and I just think an extra year would really stand to her, esp in senior school

Has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

thanks

sadie1502 · 10-03-2021 4:50pm

Kebab wrote: »

Hi all

My daughter started school at 4 years 4 months. At the time, we didn't realise it was quite young to start school. She is now in Senior Infants. Since she started, I have worried a lot about how she is getting on, how she is relating to the other kids, how she is progressing with her reading/writing etc. Having spent so much time homeschooling her, the reading/writing is obviously not her strong point, her concentration/focus (with me anyway and her teacher has confirmed, in class sometimes too) is not great, however, she is good at maths, presenting in class and is a confident, happy, friendly little girl. She has made friends and acc to her teacher, overall is getting on fine.

I am probably hyper aware of her being one of the youngest in her class and have read a lot online about how kids should be 5+ starting school, which is all underlining my worry about having started her too young. We have approached her school who are being very flexible and will allow her to stay back if we decide she should.

My gut says it would really benefit her. My husband however, thinks entirely differently. He thinks she is getting on fine, is happy, confident, friendly and he is really worried that holding her back would affect her confidence badly. Whereas he is purely looking at the situation now, I am looking at the fact that she will be 12 and 4 months starting First Year and I just think an extra year would really stand to her, esp in senior school

Has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

thanks

My son was the same now in 5th year and wish I kept him back in primary. I would definitely agree with you even just for maturity I should have held him back. As a result he will be just 17 doing the leaving so too young and immature. Nothing to do with his school work just for his own personal growth stands to them if they are a little bit older.

Oink · 10-03-2021 4:54pm

Her teacher is being supportive, which is great. But what do they think? Do they have a recommendation?

goingagain · 10-03-2021 4:56pm

I would keep her back. I like you would be thinking of secondary school , when the kissing boys and drinking starts. I’d rather she’d be the oldest in her peer group than the youngest.

egan2020 · 10-03-2021 5:02pm

Kebab wrote: »

Hi all

My daughter started school at 4 years 4 months. At the time, we didn't realise it was quite young to start school. She is now in Senior Infants. Since she started, I have worried a lot about how she is getting on, how she is relating to the other kids, how she is progressing with her reading/writing etc. Having spent so much time homeschooling her, the reading/writing is obviously not her strong point, her concentration/focus (with me anyway and her teacher has confirmed, in class sometimes too) is not great, however, she is good at maths, presenting in class and is a confident, happy, friendly little girl. She has made friends and acc to her teacher, overall is getting on fine.

I am probably hyper aware of her being one of the youngest in her class and have read a lot online about how kids should be 5+ starting school, which is all underlining my worry about having started her too young. We have approached her school who are being very flexible and will allow her to stay back if we decide she should.

My gut says it would really benefit her. My husband however, thinks entirely differently. He thinks she is getting on fine, is happy, confident, friendly and he is really worried that holding her back would affect her confidence badly. Whereas he is purely looking at the situation now, I am looking at the fact that she will be 12 and 4 months starting First Year and I just think an extra year would really stand to her, esp in senior school

Has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

thanks

My daughter was also 4 years and 4 months when she started a few years back. She was a few months into Junior Infants when her teacher called me and said that while she was doing good with all with the school work she thought she might not be mature enough otherwise, e.g. focus, concentration. I took the advice of the teacher and let her finish Junior Infants and she repeated the following year. It did wonders for her. She became the teacher's "helper" for new Junior Infants and was delighted with this title! She made new friends instantly with the new classmates. She is in third class now and is still friendly with her old classmates.

seamus · 10-03-2021 5:09pm

I'd go with the teacher's recommendation tbh. If the teacher thinks she's doing fine, then I'd stick with it. My concern would be that keeping her back would leave her insanely bored next year, which could make the concentration even worse.

I know ages have drifted a little, but I was the same age starting school I don't recall ever feeling like my age was a factor or that it held me back.

jrosen · 10-03-2021 5:50pm

I would double check with the school before you get your hopes up. Its not straight forward to keep a student back and really isn't easily approved.

Edit to add, the dept site itself states children should only be allowed repeat for educational reasons.

Kebab · 10-03-2021 6:18pm

Hi all, thanks so much for replying.

Oink, her teacher and the principal have said they do not currently feel she would need to stay back from an education point of view, and that obviously is what the rules are based on. Having said that, the school will allow it. Jrosen, this was confirmed recently.

Seamus I hadn't even thought of that, I feel educationally she's probably not as far on as a lot of her peers (even though the school think she's doing ok) so another year underlining what they learn in SI would help. I started at 4 too (although going on 5) as did my siblings, times definitely seem to have changed, with the ECCE scheme being 2 years thus meaning most kids seem to be 5 starting school...

Egan2020, that is really interesting thanks so much. It's hard to find anyone who's actually gone down the repeating road. I'm delighted your daughter did so well. We had such a messy first year in school with the pandemic cutting it short and her teacher being in and out a bit even before then so although we did have one parent teacher meeting, it was only after they'd been in school a couple of months...

GoingAgain and Sadie, yeah it certainly seems to be the general consensus, kids older starting school, starting senior school, starting college seems to be more beneficial.

I wish I had a crystal ball!

NutmegGirl · 10-03-2021 6:29pm

I’d def recommend her repeat
My youngest repeated j infants, was 4 years and 3 months starting (May baby)
Her Montessori teacher had recommended she wait til following year but I ignored her and shouldn’t have
Academically she was fine but socially she wasn’t, getting up wandering around room, around Xmas her j infants teacher recommended her repeating and this time we listened
Don’t regret it at all
When they’re that young they don’t notice repeating as much , they make friends so quickly and because she then was the oldest the next year she became the teacher’s helper, doing jobs etc and she enjoyed that so much she actually wanted to stay in j infants again the following year to do that job
A friend of mine who is a secondary teacher said they prefer them coming in closer to 13 not 12, you really notice the younger ones she said
And they also end up being 17/8 starting university if they go and that’s v young

A distant cousin of mine , her daughter ended up repeating 6th class, had been 4 years 1 month starting school (July baby), her parents wished they’d let her repeat when she was younger
It was v hard for her when all her friends went into 1st year without her, she was v aware of it, whereas my one doesn’t even remember repeating at this stage
Trust your gut

Millem · 10-03-2021 6:49pm

Kebab wrote: »

Hi all, thanks so much for replying.

Oink, her teacher and the principal have said they do not currently feel she would need to stay back from an education point of view, and that obviously is what the rules are based on. Having said that, the school will allow it. Jrosen, this was confirmed recently.

Seamus I hadn't even thought of that, I feel educationally she's probably not as far on as a lot of her peers (even though the school think she's doing ok) so another year underlining what they learn in SI would help. I started at 4 too (although going on 5) as did my siblings, times definitely seem to have changed, with the ECCE scheme being 2 years thus meaning most kids seem to be 5 starting school...

Egan2020, that is really interesting thanks so much. It's hard to find anyone who's actually gone down the repeating road. I'm delighted your daughter did so well. We had such a messy first year in school with the pandemic cutting it short and her teacher being in and out a bit even before then so although we did have one parent teacher meeting, it was only after they'd been in school a couple of months...

GoingAgain and Sadie, yeah it certainly seems to be the general consensus, kids older starting school, starting senior school, starting college seems to be more beneficial.

I wish I had a crystal ball!

I would definitely take the option of repeating.
Why didn’t you take the two years of the ECCE?

Coneygree · 10-03-2021 7:10pm

I'd always er on the side that if you feel like it'd benefit her to repeat, then do so.

However I will say it's been very tough on Infants, especially the current senior infants. They missed so much of their Junior Infants year and they've missed the bones of another term this year, as well as a lot of time spent each day on hand washing and so on. It'd be expected for a child's focus and concentration to be a little off.

Also, if she's struggling with her reading, I'd rather the child receive some learning support first. One year when I taught Senior Infants I'd a child who was quite young and was struggling with their phonics and reading. They got a quick blast of one to one learning support for the bones of a couple of months and they were right on par with their peers after it. At that age sometimes that's all they need is a quick bit of one to one intervention.

I'd nearly ask the school would that be possible. I know with Coivd going on and everything it's a bit of a mess but I'd see if that was possible first and then make a decision later in the year.

hots · 10-03-2021 7:14pm

See what the teacher thinks, I moved up a year and a relative started at 3 (just), it has it's positives and negatives, if you carry the spare year all the way through you can do TY or travel etc. and go into 3rd level the same age as others, or just go in young.

Kebab · 10-03-2021 7:45pm

Nutmeggirl, thanks for that. I wish now she'd repeated JI, she's made friends and had nearly 2 years with them at this stage (although of course with all the pandemic closures that's not 2 full years!). But she's very much part of the group and I am worried about taking her away from them. Having said that as you say, she is still so young and does make friends easily.

Millem, pure stupidity/ignorance/naivety. We were having our second child, I was more focused on that to be honest, and I thought as long as she made the age cut in the school that was how it worked. We could easily have done another year of ECCE. I don't regret much in my life, but I massively regret we didn't do that.

Coneygree, that sounds just like our daughter, definitely struggling with phonics and reading. I'll definitely look into that with the school, thank you.

Hots, thanks, wow you moved up a year? Are you glad you moved the year, was it hard not being in the same class you were used to?

starbaby2003 · 10-03-2021 7:52pm

Following on to what another user said, it is near impossible to repeat a year now. The child needs to show that they have exceptional needs. From their website Under the Department’s policy, children should only be allowed to repeat a year for educational reasons and in exceptional circumstances. An additional grade level should not operate through the retention of all or a substantial number of pupils at a grade level.

2.4 In such exceptional circumstances a Principal teacher, following consultation with the learning support teacher/resource teacher and class teacher and parent(s) may concludes that a pupil would benefit educationally by repeating a grade level. A record outlining the educational basis for the decision to retain a child should be kept for any pupil so retained. In addition, there should be a clear programme outlined for such a pupil that records precisely what new approach will be used for her/him and what its expected benefit will be. These records should be retained within the school and should be brought to the Inspector’s attention by the Principal when s/he visits the school. No pupil should repeat a grade more than once in a primary school.

byhookorbycrook · 11-03-2021 12:34am

Primary SET here . Star baby is correct , it’s not easy to have a child repeat a year and if she is managing academically, even harder. This is why I always advocate here that most parents won’t regret starting a child later, but plenty do regret starting them younger . Anyway, that’s no help to you now.

I think it will be even more difficult now , as I’ve heard of parents wanting a child to repeat due to remote learning and it could start a precedent within a school .The late David Carey was vehemently opposed to “ grade retention,” saying that all the research showed that there are no benefits to it and that it can actually a child socially and academically.

“The research is very clear: the effects of retention are harmful. As early as the 1930s, studies reported the negative effects of retention on academic achievement. Retention harms students academically and socially. According to retention research, 50 percent of students who repeat a grade do no better the second time, and 25 percent actually do worse (McCollum, 1999; Merrow, 2004).”

https://www.idra.org/resource-center/good-for-nothing-in-grade-retention/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2158244013486993

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mary-Smith-63/publication/234709494_Synthesis_of_Research_on_Grade_Retention/links/56d06c2808ae4d8d64a38c0e/Synthesis-of-Research-on-Grade-Retention.pdf

goingagain · 11-03-2021 12:40am

My niece repeated a junior infant year and it was the making of her IMO she had no problem making new friends and was very mature etc when it came to the leaving cert.

JustAThought · 11-03-2021 12:44am

Your child is 4 1/2. When the year ends and the next one begins she will be what - 5 1/2. The teacher says she is getting on well and good in some subjects and not as good in others. If she repeats her first year in school and hits a problem later on in her life, or needs to repeat in 6th YEAR to get points in her leaving cert them this will set her back age wise considerably amongst her peers and feasibly limit her perception of her choices. All kids have ups and downs. Covid hasn’t helped. She has her little band of friends she likes and probably dosn’t need the stigma of being held back and maybe not adjusting or not gelling with the new class. I’d let her progress with her friends aNd not hold her back. Often kids held back are viewed differently or don’t gel - you don’t want to do this to a 5 year old. You don’t want her wondering why she not allowed be in her class with her friends anymore or is going back to learn the same work with ‘new’ kids who havn’t been in a class or even learned to sit or use crayons yet. Let her progress with her friends. Chances are she will disruptive and unsettled learning the same maths and materials and become bored doing it all again and a burden on the teacher. Fair chance she will think either everyone else is a bit slow and stupid as she knows the material and has done the workbooks already and readings already, or she is la king something in comparison to her old friends who are now all in a higher class than she is and doing new and more exciting maths and material and life skills.

GAAcailin · 04-05-2021 11:43am

HI,
I have an April child (she is 10 now), I sent her to the naíonra of the school I wanted her to attend at 3 years old and within a week I knew she was too young; it was in comparison with the other kids some of which were a full year older. There weren't 2 ECCE years then and I had to pay for the preschool for the second year (and a full time minder because of the awkward hours); it was the best investment ever. While she came on a lot in the first pre-school year she was quite unhappy and the minute she stayed back she was so much happier. She was totally accepting of not going to big school after the first preschool year.

Its a massive advantage for her being one of the oldest in the class; she has never been bored as all Teachers to date have given extra work to the kids that get through the work quicker.

If you feel your daughter is too young and have the opportunity to hold her back I would jump at this - it will stand to her the whole way up. Kids at that age adapt so easily and she will make new friends straight away.

My now 10 year old thanks me for keeping her back, she is so happy in her class; I dread to think of her in 4th class now!

Good luck with your decision.

dara10 · 04-06-2021 4:41pm

If her teacher is happy with her and she is happy then leave her. Don't worry about what ages the other kids are, someone has to be the youngest. 4 years 4 months starting is not too young, I know lots that started at that age. Being the oldest is not ideal either. She would be bored doing the same work again especially if she didn't struggle the first time. There is definitely a stigma to staying back. Trust the guidance of the school on this.

Repeating Senior Infants

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