BMW R 1150 GS

Detritus70 · 02-09-2020 1:29pm #1

Yes, I am a complete fool and have privately bought myself one of those.
It's a '99, with 90000 km on the clock.
The bike is mostly in good order, but I am noticing a certain rough feel when driving along, this does not seem to come from the engine (engine runs and revs freely), it feels more gearbox/final drive like.
It's a bit as if gears are worn, don't mesh properly and seem to feel a bit rough when I'm driving along. Bit like sitting on a coffee grinder.
When I pull the clutch, driving feels a lot smoother.
If anyone had any troubleshooting hints, they would be appreciated.

CorkBlackbird · 02-09-2020 2:53pm

Detritus70 wrote: »

Yes, I am a complete fool and have privately bought myself one of those.
It's a '99, with 90000 km on the clock.
The bike is mostly in good order, but I am noticing a certain rough feel when driving along, this does not seem to come from the engine (engine runs and revs freely), it feels more gearbox/final drive like.
It's a bit as if gears are worn, don't mesh properly and seem to feel a bit rough when I'm driving along. Bit like sitting on a coffee grinder.
When I pull the clutch, driving feels a lot smoother.
If anyone had any troubleshooting hints, they would be appreciated.

Try replacing Final Drive oil and see if that smoothes out the ride.

Worst comes to the worst replacing the final drive with a used one in good condition.. plenty on eBay for less than €200

rustynutz · 02-09-2020 3:01pm

The final drive is a known weak point on BMW GS's, if it is prepare to have your wallet opened. Try the oil first as mentioned above

Detritus70 · 02-09-2020 7:06pm

Thanks, it seems the logical starting point.
This thread could go on a bit, this bike does need some TLC and I'm a sucker for neglected beauties.

rustynutz · 02-09-2020 7:10pm

Detritus70 wrote: »

Thanks, it seems the logical starting point.
This thread could go on a bit, this bike does need some TLC and I'm a sucker for neglected beauties.

If it came at the right money then it should be a fun project, I'm more into older sportsbikes myself but can definitely see the attraction with buying bikes that need work

Detritus70 · 02-09-2020 7:41pm

rustynutz wrote: »

If it came at the right money then it should be a fun project, I'm more into older sportsbikes myself but can definitely see the attraction with buying bikes that need work

Username is a giveaway.

It cost €3300, but this is in Germany, those old bikes can go for up to €7k here. Ireland may be different.

listermint · 02-09-2020 8:16pm

Do 99s with final drive issues make that much. Seems high. 7 seems really high

Detritus70 · 02-09-2020 9:00pm

listermint wrote: »

Do 99s with final drive issues make that much. Seems high. 7 seems really high

You'd be amazed how much certain brands/types of cars make in Germany.
This bike was rock bottom for that model here. Cheaper ones are pure rusty sheds. And this one's in decent shape otherwise.
Or even just old bangers.
The difference is insurance. I drive an 18 year old Fiesta (1.6) and it costs me €300 to insure. The bike costs about €150 to insure.
Tax between the two is less than €200.
Because insurances in Germany don't wage war on cars based on age and because payout for whiplash is a fraction of the payout in Ireland, insurance is affordable.
For example, payout for whiplash in Ireland is between €12000 to €15000 for non serious cases with no lasting damage.
In Germany you'd get about €600 for the same injury. Because suing for a few hundred is not financially viable, whiplash is not anywhere near as prevalent here.

Lyle Lanley · 03-09-2020 3:20am

rustynutz wrote: »

The final drive is a known weak point on BMW GS's, if it is prepare to have your wallet opened. Try the oil first as mentioned above

It's lasted over 20 years and 90k Kms. Not sure that counts as a weak point!

Detritus70 · 03-09-2020 10:08am

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

It's lasted over 20 years and 90k Kms. Not sure that counts as a weak point!

They do have the odd issue, but nothing too bad.
This is something I have planned for next year. For now the bike runs and drives, so this is just the preliminary research.
I do love my Q.
(Q in German is pronounced the same as Kuh, meaning cow. The older models where called rubber cow

)

rustynutz · 03-09-2020 3:03pm

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

It's lasted over 20 years and 90k Kms. Not sure that counts as a weak point!

How do you know it's on its first replacement? I'd bet its not

Detritus70 · 03-09-2020 9:50pm

rustynutz wrote: »

How do you know it's on its first replacement? I'd bet its not

Not according to the FSH, but the ABS unit was rebuilt.

goblin59 · 04-09-2020 11:03am

Detritus70 wrote: »

Not according to the FSH, but the ABS unit was rebuilt.

you might be better off just bypassing the ABS on those.

I know on the 2005 R1200GS they're a pain in the hole.

Dad disabled the one on his bike as it was prone to failing for no reason.
It takes the brake assisting servos with it when it fails, so alot of people chose to bypass it in order to keep the servos safe

H_Lime · 04-09-2020 12:04pm

goblin59 wrote: »

you might be better off just bypassing the ABS on those.

I know on the 2005 R1200GS they're a pain in the hole.

Dad disabled the one on his bike as it was prone to failing for no reason.
It takes the brake assisting servos with it when it fails, so alot of people chose to bypass it in order to keep the servos safe

I don't know enough to speak with any authority on it but there's crazy stories about brake failures out there re this. I'd be inclined to bypass myself.

two wheels good · 04-09-2020 5:55pm

On your 1150GS model no need to be unduly worried about final drive or ABS.
The notorious problem is servo brakes on 2003-on models due to failure mode with reduced braking. Not so on the earlier non-servo ABS.
Surprised your ABS was "rebuilt". Usually very robust. Does the service history include fluid changes?

The usual FD failure on an 1150 is the crown wheel bearing. A DIY job, ~£80 for bearing, seal, o-ring.
To check FD;
Check for play with weight partially off the wheel. Play can be paralever bearing or FD crown wheel bearing.
Remove caliper or retract pads and listen for rumble in FD bearing when turning by hand.
Change the FD oil. Look for grey colour and metal filings. Any oil leaking from seal don't ride it. Bearing probably already ripping the seal.

But I'm not saying your problem is FD. Many FDs last >80k miles. Some fail early, supposedly due to incorrect shimming.

About your question:
Not enough info to go on really. Easy to confuse an engine needing a tune-up with transmission roughness.
Start with a service, adjust tappets and throttle balance.
Also, change the brake/clutch fluids. Replace original brake hoses if they're still fitted.

Have a look on UKGSer website for all the info you'll ever need.

Detritus70 · 04-09-2020 6:05pm

Two wheels good, thank you for your very excellent advice, I certainly will look into that.
I have to look into the service history, the bike was serviced every year or every 10000 km, so everything should be on the money with fluids.
I don't know why the ABS was rebuilt, but it should not be a point of great worry.
As I said, this is not of any great hurry, the machine sounds and feels quite nice and maybe I am overly paranoid, the only point of comparison I have is a 2003 GS that I rode which seemed to feel smoother, but of course there are differences between those two bikes.
For example, mine has single spark plugs and those apparently have a tiny bit of jerkiness compared to the later twin spark plug models.

I will follow your plan, because it is logical, start with the small things and work your way up.

Lyle Lanley · 08-09-2020 12:33pm

rustynutz wrote: »

How do you know it's on its first replacement? I'd bet its not

I have a 99 that is still on its first after over 150k.

Detritus70 · 08-09-2020 8:52pm

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

I have a 99 that is still on its first after over 150k.

You're referring to a bike I trust?

cococoady · 19-09-2020 5:57pm

Bit off topic but also to do with a BMW, this time a 2010 GSA 1200. Although the bike is 10 years old there's only 30,000 km on it. However the last week the brake failure warning light has come on the the ABS is no longer working and the speedo also won't work until after about 5 mins of driving. Any ideas as to what could be causing this? I'm not very technical minded myself now.

zubair · 19-09-2020 6:15pm

cococoady wrote: »

Bit off topic but also to do with a BMW, this time a 2010 GSA 1200. Although the bike is 10 years old there's only 30,000 km on it. However the last week the brake failure warning light has come on the the ABS is no longer working and the speedo also won't work until after about 5 mins of driving. Any ideas as to what could be causing this? I'm not very technical minded myself now.

Don't think there's much to worry about. ABS sensor is linked to the speedo on many bikes. Getting the code cleared could resolve it but probably the sensor is dirty or has moved. I expect the rear sensor is the one related to the speedo. Give the sensor a wipe and make sure it's seated correctly.

cococoady · 19-09-2020 6:18pm

zubair wrote: »

Don't think there's much to worry about. ABS sensor is linked to the speedo on many bikes. Getting the code cleared could resolve it but probably the sensor is dirty or has moved. I expect the rear sensor is the one related to the speedo. Give the sensor a wipe and make sure it's seated correctly.

I'm guessing I'll need to take the back wheel off to be able to do this.

listermint · 19-09-2020 7:15pm

If your not very technical just bring it to an independent motorcycle mechanic.

Sir Galahad · 20-09-2020 9:24am

I’m now on my 10th 1150 Adventure. I ride throughout the year and use the bike as my main mode of transport. They are very dependable. I’ve had single spark and dual spark. I’ve had ABS 1 and Servo Assisted ABS. The1150’s were built at a when BMW did the product testing before releasing them to the customer and when most of the bike was not made in China. My latest 1150 is a 2005 SE with 17,000 miles on it. Where is the OP based ? A dependable mechanic the knows BMW helps.

two wheels good · 20-09-2020 9:52pm

cococoady wrote: »

I'm guessing I'll need to take the back wheel off to be able to do this.

[EDIT] Correction: The ABS sensor is behind the rear wheel. Parts fiche.
Zubair's advice is correct.
Also check for play in final drive. This can upset the sensor gap. But if it's all fine after 5mins riding this is unlikely problem- fortunately!

Also:
Normal service resuming after 5mins makes me think is the battery voltage could be low. Put the battery on charge and see if there's any improvement.
ABS not working could be brushes stuck in ABS unit. Has anyone had a look at it? I don't think it's labour-intensive; cover can be removed with ABS in-situ AFAIK.
Check that brake light switches are working correctly.

Detritus70 · 21-09-2020 6:37pm

Sir Galahad wrote: »

I’m now on my 10th 1150 Adventure. I ride throughout the year and use the bike as my main mode of transport. They are very dependable. I’ve had single spark and dual spark. I’ve had ABS 1 and Servo Assisted ABS. The1150’s were built at a when BMW did the product testing before releasing them to the customer and when most of the bike was not made in China. My latest 1150 is a 2005 SE with 17,000 miles on it. Where is the OP based ? A dependable mechanic the knows BMW helps.

I'm based in Germany. The bike's been going great, next on the list is oil change, new sparks, air filter and check out the oil in the final drive as suggested by two wheels good.
The spark plugs were a bit cruddy and cleaning them up with a wire brush has already improved the way the bike runs, it's already smoother.
The last service entry is 80000 km, it's now at 90000 and maybe that service was skipped, but I shall address this shortly.
So far no need for a mechanic, we'll see as this rolling project progresses.

two wheels good · 21-09-2020 6:44pm

I found a more convincing explanation for the speedo resuming after 5mins

If the speedo control module finds the signal from the rear sensor is faulty it will switch to using the front sensor signals after a while.
Disconnect the rear sensor from the loom. The control module should switch to the front sensor immediately, or at least more quickly.

Detritus70 · 24-09-2020 8:24am

Right, parts ordered and on their way.
Sadly I can't order oil online here, well I could, but there's no way to dispose of the old oil afterwards no recycling facility will take it. And the shop is 300km away, it's too far to drive and I can't send oil per mail.
The only way is to buy oil from a shop and they are obligated to take the old oil back. I found a BMW bike shop where I bought four litres of oil for SEVENTY(!!!!) Euro, but they will take the old oil back.
Buying oil online in Germany is a scam!
As well as oil filter, air filter, sparks and an oil filter tool.
I will also have a go at adjusting the valve play.
Then check the usual, brake discs, pads, fluid and I'm considering changing gearbox and final drive oil, but maybe not this time.
Anything I missed?

H_Lime · 24-09-2020 9:21am

Sorry I've not read all this thread but you can buy oil in Ireland, you are in Ireland? We're a bit backwards but yep we have oil.
Regarding the old oil, leave it in the new container and put it on let's say a shelf?
Edit, I read on and yer in Deutschland... Disregard the first two sentences and maybe go to a shop that sells it��

two wheels good · 24-09-2020 1:36pm

The main dealer is the last resort for service items.
Did you find a German indie parts supplier? Knecht and Mahle filters are equivalent.

The engine and gear oil is standard auto oil. e.g. 20w50 mineral. Unless it's been running on synth .
€22-25 for 5l here. Local auto factor should be able to get it.
Buy another 5L and hand over all the waste oil at the same time?

Best to do gbox and FD oil. Drain FD into a clean container to inspect the oil.
You didnt forget the oil removal tool, good! Stick a few magnets on the base of filter if you have some.

Other service jobs to consider- depending on service history;
fuel filter, care required with studs if they're rusty, new o-ring.
check alternator belt
change brake fluid. (What about disposal?)
rear bleed nipple prone to seizing and shearing but dont panic, the insert is available in s-steel
open drain plug on air-box. front left of air box.

Lots of other tasks worth doing on a 20 yr old GS. Have a look on UKGSER, or PM me.

EDIT: Fill the filter with oil before installing, Check the rubber seal on old filter hasn't stuck to engine.
(Sorry if that's already obvs)

Detritus70 · 04-10-2020 4:35pm

Well, attempt number one went absolutely nowhere.

Had the oil, filter, air filter and sparkers at the ready and then found out the sodding tool for the oil filter didn't fit.
It's a bit of a procedure, because I need to take those guard rails off (or whatchermacall those rollbars) and to do that the tank needs to be undone, but first remove the seat.
Then remove the underbody guard, try the tool, at least 5 mm too small.
Argh.
Changed the spark plugs and air filter at least.
Second attempt some time this week.
It's been a productive day (Not!), because I also tried to change the brake shoes on the missus Duster and found out I have no nut big enough to remove the brake drum.
Don't you just love it when you spend hours working and achieved absolutely nothing.
Ah well, at least the weather was nice.

Detritus70 · 05-10-2020 9:27pm

Just a side note.
You'll need a 36 mm nut to undo the center nut if you want to change the rear brake shoes of a Dacia Duster.

BMW R 1150 GS

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