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14-02-2021, 14:07   #1
jd1983
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Is COVID Undermining Real Science

One of the very few positives arising from COVID 19 is the rapid development of vaccines, particularly mRNA vaccines which has led to the possibility of cancer vaccines. This is an amazing scientific development but I get the feeling, particularly in this country that such achievements are under attack.
Two of the lead scientists involved in the Astra Zeneca vaccine are from Ireland. This vaccine is likely to save 100's of thousands of lives, reduce severe illness in others and should help (along with other vaccines) get rid of the most draconian restrictions of freedom I've experienced in my lifetime. Considering all this, you'd expect these scientists who have worked painstakingly long hours to achieve this would be lauded and celebrated in this country. However I don't see any celebrations of their achievements in the media. Instead the media, celebrity "scientists" and NPHET seem to be consistently undermining such achievements by casting doubt over their vaccines effectiveness and subtlety spreading misinformation.
If one were to randomly ask 100 Irish people if they knew the names of the two Irish Scientists involved in the Astra Zeneca vaccine, I'd be surprised if any knew who they are. However if you asked the same people if they knew Tony Holohan, Sam McConkey, Tomas Ryan etc, I bet a majority above a certain age would know who they are.
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14-02-2021, 14:08   #2
endacl
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What’s your point?
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14-02-2021, 14:11   #3
DaCor
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Not sure what your point is OP.

Are you saying that because we haven't celebrated these people that science is under attack? Thats some leap to make.

I will say this, the time for celebration is not here yet. Get the world vaccinated fast before more variants appear and then we can have a party.
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14-02-2021, 14:21   #4
jd1983
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What’s your point?
My point is if we continue to undermine actual science, then there's a concern that scientific progress will suffer. Where is the incentive to work hard and make scientific breakthroughs if it's wafflers that are spouting pseudo-science and being sensationalist that are appear to be awarded.
Furthermore, I feel there's currently a lot of censorship around opinions and this doesn't bode well for science. I feel there's no honest debate in society in Ireland regarding the pros/cons of lockdown measures. A lot of what's being referred to as 'expert opinion' in Ireland contrasts with 'expert opinion' from outside Ireland and from large governing bodies like the WHO.
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14-02-2021, 14:29   #5
DaCor
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My point is if we continue to undermine actual science, then there's a concern that scientific progress will suffer. Where is the incentive to work hard and make scientific breakthroughs if it's wafflers that are spouting pseudo-science and being sensationalist that are appear to be awarded.
You are assuming people go into the sciences for personal recognition and fame?

You are also making another leap in saying that posts on facebook are going to prevent scientific advancements...I think you put too much stock in wacko's
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14-02-2021, 14:35   #6
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A lot of what's being referred to as 'expert opinion' in Ireland contrasts with 'expert opinion' from outside Ireland and from large governing bodies like the WHO.
The WHO has no credibility, they are a mouthpiece for the CCP.
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14-02-2021, 14:41   #7
jd1983
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You are also making another leap in saying that posts on facebook are going to prevent scientific advancements...I think you put too much stock in wacko's
It looks like it's you that's making leaps, I haven't mentioned anything about facebook and I haven't even logged onto facebook in months.

I'm talking about "scientists" who are constantly on mainstream media TV and radio shows. One "scientist" in particular has made the following claims:
- Predicted 50k deaths in Ireland in an oireachtas submission to the Covid Committee in August
- Predicted 100's of children dying on prime time during a debate on school's reopening
- Stated that Covid has a fatality rate of 3% last Summer
- Constantly casting doubts on vaccines

I take no stock in ridiculous opinions like these, I can only assume you're not reading my posts properly if you think so. However, quite a lot of people are taking such opinions seriously which I believe will ultimately damage Science and this worries me. These people are rarely if ever challenged on such ludicrous positions on MSM.
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14-02-2021, 14:45   #8
jd1983
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The WHO has no credibility, they are a mouthpiece for the CCP.
I'd certainly be critical of some of their actions but they certainly have more credibility than NPHET.

I feel they're not showing much leadership but to be fair they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them either. Therefore they avoid getting political and therefore avoid criticizing individual countries responses.
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14-02-2021, 14:45   #9
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It looks like it's you that's making leaps, I haven't mentioned anything about facebook and I haven't even logged onto facebook in months.
Sigh

Facebook was used as an example based on your "it's wafflers that are spouting pseudo-science " statement, unless you want to share some links to reputable news sources that are providing a platform for said wafflers

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Originally Posted by jd1983 View Post
I'm talking about "scientists" who are constantly on mainstream media TV and radio shows. One "scientist" in particular has made the following claims:
- Predicted 50k deaths in Ireland in an oireachtas submission to the Covid Committee in August
- Predicted 100's of children dying on prime time during a debate on school's reopening
- Stated that Covid has a fatality rate of 3% last Summer
- Constantly casting doubts on vaccines

I take no stock in ridiculous opinions like these, I can only assume you're not reading my posts properly if you think so. However, quite a lot of people are taking such opinions seriously which I believe will ultimately damage Science and this worries me. These people are rarely if ever challenged on such ludicrous positions on MSM.
Is it a big secret? Why dont you share with everyone who you are talking about. Its difficult to dissect the issue without the full story. Links to back up your 4 points would be most useful
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14-02-2021, 15:02   #10
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This forum is to discuss Covid - there's a Science, Health and Environment Category to discuss wider science issues

EDIT:

Moved from Coronavirus Forum. I will leave it to local mods to re-open as they see fit

Last edited by Beasty; 14-02-2021 at 15:11.
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