Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

orourkeda1977 · 26-02-2019 1:45am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

I think Clodagh's mother / the boy's grandmother is right to ask WHAT it was that her daughter and her grandsons Died For. He said in his 5page letter that the truth was all going to come out. Those in the know are giving him exactly what HE wanted - protection from being shown up / exposed / embarrassed / found lacking somehow, shown to be less than the ideal he presented as.

Why? I dont get it.

political analyst · 26-02-2019 1:59am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

I think Clodagh's mother / the boy's grandmother is right to ask WHAT it was that her daughter and her grandsons Died For. He said in his 5page letter that the truth was all going to come out. Those in the know are giving him exactly what HE wanted - protection from being shown up / exposed / embarrassed / found lacking somehow, shown to be less than the ideal he presented as.

It's already out - he was caught "pleasuring himself" and watching porn on a computer at the school.

It's possible that data protection law prevents the authorities from releasing information about Alan Hawe without permission from his parents and brothers.

padd b1975 · 26-02-2019 2:04am

JupiterKid wrote: »

Watched this myself. Clodagh’s mother and sister were very brave and dignified in telling her story. Heartbreaking.

It sheds a little more light on this horrific and shocking murder-suicide, and I am of the opinion that Alan Hawe was a very insecure, domineering and controlling individual who callously premeditated and plotted the heinous and barbaric slaughter of his family.

Spot on in your discription of him.

My sister would have been in St. Pat's College around the same time as them, they were a couple back then in the mid nineties.
St. Pat's is a small college where everyone knows everyone else and their business.

Clodagh and himself would have been what you would call a "golden couple" on campus, at least that's what a casual observer would see.
Unfortunately even in his late teens there was obvious signs of his controlling behaviour.

A tragic case.

MintyMagnum · 26-02-2019 2:10am

political analyst wrote: »

It's already out - he was caught "pleasuring himself" and watching porn on a computer at the school.

It's possible that data protection law prevents the authorities from releasing information about Alan Hawe without permission from his parents and brothers.

What about victim protection or justice?!
These people also benefitted financially from the murders, they've been awfully quiet. Seems the mental psychosis excuse provides great cover for AH. Funny how methodical, organised, well thought out and no pun intended executed his actions were. Weapons at the ready. Couch rearranged weeks ahead of schedule, final holiday completed, last visit to granny where he appeared perfectly normal, letters written, note to not come in on the door all completed by someone who suddenly snapped? It's an insult to the mentally ill.

political analyst · 26-02-2019 2:14am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

What about victim protection or justice?!
These people also benefitted financially from the murders, they've been awfully quiet. Seems the mental psychosis excuse provides great cover for AH. Funny how methodical, organised, well thought out and no pun intended executed his actions were. Weapons at the ready. Couch rearranged weeks ahead of schedule, final holiday completed, last visit to granny where he appeared perfectly normal, letters written, note to not come in on the door all completed by someone who suddenly snapped? It's an insult to the mentally ill.

They haven't committed a crime. They were unaware that he had murder in mind. What they do with the "benefit" is a matter of conscience for them. They're not Eamon Lillis, you know!

MintyMagnum · 26-02-2019 2:20am

political analyst wrote: »

They haven't committed a crime. They were unaware that he had murder in mind. What they do with the "benefit" is a matter of conscience for them. They're not Eamon Lillis, you know!

Well if his family are the reason that her family can't get answers I just don't know what to say.

Airyfairy12 · 26-02-2019 2:34am

I didnt see the show but read about it in the Irish times, it said that he'd watched porn in school and was getting counselling because he liked to watch porn, surely this cant be a genuine reason for murdering your whole family? - not that theres any good reason to do such a thing but as excuses go, that's fairly out there. Surely theres more shame associated with being a cold blooded murderer than watching a bit of porn? I get it was inappropriate to say the least, watching porn in school, but theres no logic to this at all. Was it illegal porn? Its just so messed up, that poor family and those poor kids falling victim to a psychopath who they trusted. Its scary to think how psychopaths like him can come across so normal, he was described as a pillar of the community if I remember correctly. Its f'ed up beyond belief.

wingsof daun · 26-02-2019 2:47am

I didn't see these unfortunate women, so, I don't want to be called the devils advocate nor do I want to be insensitive to the family. I think the guy could have reformed himself if he had got the right help from the right sources. Have any of you had a serious porn (or other) addiction? Do you know the damaging effects of porn addiction? I think it is overlooked as a problem in the modern world. It is a "trap" that is not difficult to fall into, and many begin viewing this "scourge" at a very young age. I say scourge because I think this country is far too oblivious to the danger of porn addiction.

Sam Quentin · 26-02-2019 2:53am

Where do fook does anyone find time to fulfill a porn addiction nowadays.. they must be lazy bástards, doing nothing round the house... Reminds me of fitness freaks,the ones that are always at the gym or out cycling..you know the type!? :-))

shenanagans · 26-02-2019 2:54am

To suggest he had depression is an insult to people who suffer with it. He was a crazy f**ker.

It was premeditated and thought out. He was ashamed and too weak to face the consequences of his actions. To selfish to kill himself, he had to kill his family. Didn't want them living without him.

His wife sounds like she was a smart decent lady who could no doubt have moved on and been happy without him.

All documents should be made available to his wife's next of kin. Give these people answers and let them gain the closure they need to let Clodagh and her sons RIP.

I feel sorry for this things family. His parents and siblings must have gone through hell. Her family are victims but his family are too.

Andrew00 · 26-02-2019 2:54am

“In a suicide note he spoke of his shame and that “it was easier for them to die than to have to live with the truth of what he was doing”

The “truth” that hasn’t come out yet is something far more serious than having a **** on school grounds.

As another poster said, he was in the presence of children all day, do you not see where this is pointing towards? Just a thought.

bigpink · 26-02-2019 3:18am

Was it child porn or was he caught with a kid?

wingsof daun · 26-02-2019 3:20am

We should not let our emotions control our thoughts on this terrible event. It should be blatantly obvious that mental illness was the complete driving force here. I highly doubt if it was a woman who done the same thing to her family there would be the same hatred directed towards her. In this twisted modern world, a woman would get more consolation and less hatred if it were her that resorted to murder of her family. It is so easy nowadays to target men, and in America it's a racial hatred of white men that seems to be all too common.

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 3:37am

Here is a transcript of tonight's Interview!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/transcript-of-clodagh-hawe-family-interviews-1.3805969

It's also available on the RTE Player.

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/claire-byrne-live/SI0000000325?epguid=IH000367740

mazwell · 26-02-2019 3:40am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

I think Clodagh's mother / the boy's grandmother is right to ask WHAT it was that her daughter and her grandsons Died For. He said in his 5page letter that the truth was all going to come out. Those in the know are giving him exactly what HE wanted - protection from being shown up / exposed / embarrassed / found lacking somehow, shown to be less than the ideal he presented as.

He murdered his wife and three sons. He couldn't be any further from the ideal

BettePorter · 26-02-2019 3:46am

wingsof daun wrote: »

It is so easy nowadays to target men, and in America it's a racial hatred of white men that seems to be all too common.

Oh for goodness sake it doesn't matter if he's man woman or beast. He wiped out the 4 people he was meant to love most in the must brutal And vicious way . And he didn't just flip one evening watching the telly. He timed it to save himself from exposure. Mental illness my eye. You insult people with genuine mental illness with your assertions.

Dontfadeaway · 26-02-2019 3:46am

No matter what he did at school, I don't know how he could've went through with what he did. I haven't read much about it until now and reading his oldest son most likely seen what he did to his brother and put up a fight is really sad.

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 4:02am

I posted a transcript and a link to tonight's interview a few posts back.
In the interview Clodaghs mother said she became aware that Alan was watching pornography earlier in the year and he was now seeing a councillor to deal with this and school issues
She said since his death she became aware he was wearing Clodaghs underwear and she said that Clodagh in her wildest dreams would have thought of that.
Her sister also spoke about him insisting on going shopping for her Brides maids dress for Clodaghs wedding.
They said he would never hit the kids but you could feel his presence from five feet away and the boys listened to him and obeyed him.
They also spoke about the boys like Lego and baking.
The mother also spoke about the evening before and how everything felt normal and that morning.
They haven't had contact with the school since and don't know what happened there.
They don't accept that he was depressed. He was seeing a doctor for years and she didn't pick up in it.
They are looking for answers and changes.
That's just a few points.

La.de.da · 26-02-2019 4:11am

Any confidentiality re records that c*nt had should be fully wavered to give Clodaghs family access to all documents.

The description of what happened was absolutely shocking, unimaginable. They deserve answers.

tabby aspreme · 26-02-2019 4:51am

In April 2016, new Garda Vetting legislation was put in place regarding established teachers, making it compulsory for all teachers to be Vetted by December 2017, before that established teachers did not need Vetting, only new entrants to teaching. There were also changes made to the Vetting procedure, where "Soft Information" could be used to deny Vetting, as in not a criminal conviction, where Gardai had concerns the somebody could harm a child due to there activities/ interests etc.
If some of his colleagues had concerns about his behavior, such as masturbation in school, they would have been obliged to disclose those concerns to the relevant authorities, which in turn could deny him Vetting, which would have meant him losing his job.

Trump Is Right · 26-02-2019 6:42am

Mental illness like this, can be so hard to spot in your average everyday person.

Society does not want to acknowledge that we have people like Alan Hawe in our communities, silently suffering and struggling to keep themselves from going over the edge.

There is a deep outrage even at the suggestion that this was mental illness. But why is that? Whatever condition Alan Hawe was clearly suffering from, should be no direct reflection on any other unrelated mental illness... there are many different types, and thankfully most people suffering from mental illness will never do what this man sadly did.

But the longer society tries to brush these types of mental illness under the carpet as some simplistic "act of evil".... the longer it will take to find solutions and help prevent the next Alan Hawe!

Simply labelling someone as "evil" does nothing to help the situation (even if that is perhaps a natural human emotional reaction to this tragedy). This sort of line of thinking, is more suited to back in the bad old days of catholic Ireland... where we had "good" and "evil"... and everything else was dismissed as nonsense!

up for anything · 26-02-2019 8:16am

wingsof daun wrote: »

We should not let our emotions control our thoughts on this terrible event. It should be blatantly obvious that mental illness was the complete driving force here. I highly doubt if it was a woman who done the same thing to her family there would be the same hatred directed towards her. In this twisted modern world, a woman would get more consolation and less hatred if it were her that resorted to murder of her family. It is so easy nowadays to target men, and in America it's a racial hatred of white men that seems to be all too common.

You can't say that. There is no comparing like with like here. It doesn't work like that. Sounds like a Jordan Peterson trope.

There don't tend to be female family annihilators on the same scale as male and mostly when there are they are found to be suffering from postpartum psychosis. They also don't usually kill their partner or the father of their children, just the children. Men tend annihilate their entire families. Female murderers don't tend to get an easy ride of it. Look at the scissors sisters and Catherine Nevin. No one made excuses for them by anyone, male or female.

bigpink · 26-02-2019 8:30am

So are they saying this is a cover up job?

Hoboo · 26-02-2019 8:38am

Trump Is Right wrote: »

Mental illness like this, can be so hard to spot in your average everyday person.

Society does not want to acknowledge that we have people like Alan Hawe in our communities, silently suffering and struggling to keep themselves from going over the edge.

There is a deep outrage even at the suggestion that this was mental illness. But why is that? Whatever condition Alan Hawe was clearly suffering from, should be no direct reflection on any other unrelated mental illness... there are many different types, and thankfully most people suffering from mental illness will never do what this man sadly did.

But the longer society tries to brush these types of mental illness under the carpet as some simplistic "act of evil".... the longer it will take to find solutions and help prevent the next Alan Hawe!

Simply labelling someone as "evil" does nothing to help the situation (even if that is perhaps a natural human emotional reaction to this tragedy). This sort of line of thinking, is more suited to back in the bad old days of catholic Ireland... where we had "good" and "evil"... and everything else was dismissed as nonsense!

Finally an intelligent and informed post. Kudos.

Unfortunately the masses really don't understand the complexities of mental health and the diverse and vast range of illnesses, symptoms and outcomes.

How a GP is meant to simply spot depression without the patient discussing it is beyond me. He could have been going to the GP for years for anything, and pretending to be fine.

I think the family would be better served receiving counselling themselves, not sure they'll get any kind of closure otherwise.

laugh · 26-02-2019 8:40am

Maybe he already had no job to go back to, maybe he abused a child at the school and the Gardai / school won't discuss it to protect the child.

Tipsy McSwagger · 26-02-2019 8:50am

Trump Is Right wrote: »

Mental illness like this, can be so hard to spot in your average everyday person.

Society does not want to acknowledge that we have people like Alan Hawe in our communities, silently suffering and struggling to keep themselves from going over the edge.

There is a deep outrage even at the suggestion that this was mental illness. But why is that? Whatever condition Alan Hawe was clearly suffering from, should be no direct reflection on any other unrelated mental illness... there are many different types, and thankfully most people suffering from mental illness will never do what this man sadly did.

But the longer society tries to brush these types of mental illness under the carpet as some simplistic "act of evil".... the longer it will take to find solutions and help prevent the next Alan Hawe!

Simply labelling someone as "evil" does nothing to help the situation (even if that is perhaps a natural human emotional reaction to this tragedy). This sort of line of thinking, is more suited to back in the bad old days of catholic Ireland... where we had "good" and "evil"... and everything else was dismissed as nonsense!

He wasn’t mentally ill. He was a control freak who calmly went about murdering his whole family because his good name was about to be blackened because of an incident in the school he worked. His whole family were afraid of him, his wife was basically a prisoner in her own home. Labeling him mentally ill is just a deflection to excuse his actions and the horror of what he planned and carried out rather than accept the fact he was just a complete scumbag.

Zeek12 · 26-02-2019 9:03am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

The mother mentioned that he told his wife about this.

I know that the incident at the computer would have been the source of humiliation but he could have overcome that. Why would this be kept quiet for so long?

I wouldnt call it trivial but given the circumstances how can keeping it quiet be justified? At worst he would have lost his job

I just feel that there is more to this

For someone like him it would be far worse than just losing his job.

Also, the wife knew he was watching porn but I dont believe she knew the full extent - or that he was caught watching it at work.

The profile we have of him is a very controlling and egotistical bully.
And also a very strict father.

The revelation of what he was doing at school would have eroded all his authority at home. Not to mention his standing in the local community where apparently he was very involved in GAA and the church.

Given his huge control issues, the public unmasking would have been unfathomable for him.
He would no longer have moral authority or control over his family - and he clearly couldn't bear that.

Trying to use depression as an excuse is just cowardly.

NIMAN · 26-02-2019 9:27am

I just watched a piece of that, and listened to how he killed his family.

As a father, I simply cannot fathom it at all. To do that to his young boys, its not depression. It is, as his sister in law says, pure evil.

Its disturbing to think what those poor boys felt as the one man who should protect them with his life did that to them. What a terrible way to leave this world.

It was all so premeditated.

Why couldn't be just have gone and done himself in. His family were innocent in all this.

Ak84 · 26-02-2019 9:40am

Just a thought but I wonder dI'd he kill the boys because they would grow up to be better people than he could ever be?

Calhoun · 26-02-2019 9:44am

I don't understand how he did it, I wonder if there will be a documentary similar to the recent Jamie Bolger (detainment) in years to come when things aren't as raw.

I never understand people who have so much invested in their public image that a fall from grace could trigger something like this.

Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

Comments