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NZ attack already being labelled a "false flag" by conspiracy theorists

  • 16-03-2019 11:48am
    #1
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭


    I see usual conspiracy forums have lit up. Apparently he was a Mossad agent, or he was part of a ploy to get weapons banned in NZ, or a "false flag" to turn the public on white nationalists

    Every major attack or shooting in the last 15 years, it never changes. Individuals start with the notion it's a "conspiracy", assume a motive, go to group validation conspiracy sites, start collecting "anomalies" and "things that just don't make sense" about the event, that becomes evidence for whatever conspiracy


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Comments

  • #2
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    I see a lot of mental gymnastics in the near future; false flag to discredit white supremacists but still an excuse to talk about immigration.


  • #3
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Debate and open discussion can only be a good thing.
    People are entitled to question the official narrative we have been lied to before.
    That said I don't think for a second NZ was a false flag


  • #4
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Debate and open discussion can only be a good thing.
    People are entitled to question the official narrative we have been lied to before.
    That said I don't think for a second NZ was a false flag
    No one said that people can't "question" it.
    By the same token, rational people should be able to point out people who do claim that this and other mass shootings are fake are rather silly, gullible or outright disgusting.

    If those people don't like people pointing out those things, there are plenty of safe spaces out there for them.


  • #5
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Debate and open discussion can only be a good thing.
    People are entitled to question the official narrative we have been lied to before.
    That said I don't think for a second NZ was a false flag

    They’re not questioning an official narrative, it’s now the default response to label something a false flag within hours of something happening and those people being nowhere near the event.
    Prior false flags were supposed to remove out liberties, but yet they keep happening. The sooner conspiracy theorists are labelled mentally compromised or being part of a cult the better.


  • #6
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    King Mob wrote: »
    No one said that people can't "question" it.
    By the same token, rational people should be able to point out people who do claim that this and other mass shootings are fake are rather silly, gullible or outright disgusting.

    If those people don't like people pointing out those things, there are plenty of safe spaces out there for them.

    Well I might disagree with them but no need to call them silly or any other names.
    Some conpricy theories can be quite convincing.
    No need to shut down debate with insults as for the more wacky theories a lot of them are just trolling best ignored


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  • #7
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Well I might disagree with them but no need to call them silly or any other names.
    Some conpricy theories can be quite convincing.
    No need to shut down debate with insults as for the more wacky theories a lot of them are just trolling best ignored
    Well if you believe that a mass shooting is faked, then yea, you're either a bit silly or you're gullible.
    Or they are a type like Alex Jones and his ilk, who try to harass victims and the families of victims.
    Disgusting is putting it mildly.

    Again, if these insults hurt the feelings of people who buy into these silly silly theories, there's plenty of places they can go where no one will question their beliefs.

    These people aren't interested in debate. They've already decided it's a conspiracy before and in spite of any evidence.


  • #8
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    King Mob wrote: »
    Well if you believe that a mass shooting is faked, then yea, you're either a bit silly or you're gullible.
    Or they are a type like Alex Jones and his ilk, who try to harass victims and the families of victims.
    Disgusting is putting it mildly.

    Again, if these insults hurt the feelings of people who buy into these silly silly theories, there's plenty of places they can go where no one will question their beliefs.

    These people aren't interested in debate. They've already decided it's a conspiracy before and in spite of any evidence.

    My point was you seem to so fixed to your own opinion you seek out echo chambers just like the conspiracy heads do.
    It fine to question anybody's point of view but let's all be a bit kinder and more reasonable we might get somewhere.
    As for conspiracy theory the best one I've heard is Alex Jones is actually Bill Hicks lots of evidence to prove it.
    Would be gas if true


  • #9
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    It fine to question anybody's point of view but let's all be a bit kinder and more reasonable we might get somewhere.
    But why should we be kind and coddle people who believe obvious nonsense?
    Should we pretend that their theories aren't based on either general silliness or deliberate deception?
    Should we just ignore the general defending and excusing white supremacy?

    I'm fixed on my opinion on this in the same way that I'm fixed on my opinion of the existance of gravity.
    You need a lot of good evidence to change my mind.
    Youtube videos about how a national tragedy is actually a plot to discredit white supremacy is not worthy of consideration or respect.


  • #10
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,487 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You feed people too much bull**** and then they go and try to shoot up a pizza parlor with a nonexistent basement.

    But no I was not surprised to see Rush Limbaugh peddling this nonsense.


  • #11
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    As for conspiracy theory the best one I've heard is Alex Jones is actually Bill Hicks lots of evidence to prove it.
    Would be gas if true

    Is that really the best conspiracy theory youve ever heard?


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  • #12
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Debate and open discussion can only be a good thing.
    People are entitled to question the official narrative we have been lied to before.
    That said I don't think for a second NZ was a false flag

    You just highlighted here you don't believe it was a false flag. This went over there heads- normal behaviour on this forum welcome to the madness :)


  • #13
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    You just highlighted here you don't believe it was a false flag. This went over there heads- normal behaviour on this forum welcome to the madness :)

    He was being critiicised because he said that people who believe in false flags straight away and for prlonged periods of time without evidence should be even considered for a normal debate.


  • #14
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Ipso wrote: »
    He was being critiicised because he said that people who believe in false flags straight away and for prlonged periods of time without evidence should be even considered for a normal debate.

    Where I don't see this post?


  • #15
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Ipso wrote: »
    He was being critiicised because he said that people who believe in false flags straight away and for prlonged periods of time without evidence should be even considered for a normal debate.

    I never said that


  • #16
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    It fine to question anybody's point of view but let's all be a bit kinder and more reasonable we might get somewhere.


  • #17
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    The conspiracy loons were shouting false flag within an hour of the shooting. Claiming the video shows vanishing cartridges.

    Something very very wrong with these people.


  • #18
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    There was a civilian who took on the gun man, has he been accused of being part of it, yet?


  • #19
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The Nal wrote: »
    The conspiracy loons were shouting false flag within an hour of the shooting. Claiming the video shows vanishing cartridges.

    Something very very wrong with these people.

    It was the same with the Boston bombing, Sandy Hook, Aurora shooting, Charlie Hebdo, Paris attacks, Belgian attacks, London attacks, Las Vegas shooting (and those were just the ones I followed)

    Identical in fact, same faulty reasoning each time with amateur internet detectives feverishly working to find "weird" and "unbelievable" stuff so they could point to some vague conspiracy


  • #20
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Debate and open discussion can only be a good thing.
    People are entitled to question the official narrative we have been lied to before.
    That said I don't think for a second NZ was a false flag

    Give an example to justify this statement.


  • #21
    Jerichoholic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Jerichoholic


    They usually say it's something to do with the date, some sort of symbolism related to the occult. Has anyone mentioned that?


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  • #22
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    cursai wrote: »
    Give an example to justify this statement.

    What statement


  • #23
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    What statement

    They're don't know, mate.;)


  • #24
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    They're don't know, mate.;)

    babka---wat_30950570_orig_.jpeg


  • #25
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    Debate and open discussion can only be a good thing.
    People are entitled to question the official narrative we have been lied to before.
    That said I don't think for a second NZ was a false flag
    Thing is these conspiracies invariably target the victims of the attacks. That's not a good thing and in the likes of Sandy Hook it became awful for those families. This American Life covered the area in a recent episode. Can you explain how it's a good thing to terrorise families of spree shooting victims? That's what that sort of questioning of the narrative consists of.

    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/670/beware-the-jabberwock


  • #26
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    King Mob wrote: »
    No one said that people can't "question" it.
    By the same token, rational people should be able to point out people who do claim that this and other mass shootings are fake are rather silly, gullible or outright disgusting.

    If those people don't like people pointing out those things, there are plenty of safe spaces out there for them.

    Anti false flag posters started the discussion. There seems to be more believers in these forums that false flags never happen than the opposite, a strange position for a conspiracy forum.


  • #27
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Anti false flag posters started the discussion.

    What's an anti false flag poster?


  • #28
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What's an anti false flag poster?

    A poster who doesn’t believe in any false flags. Well those that go against western narratives. Clearly. Most arguments here are not on the actual event but generalised attacks on conspiracy theorists. However, while most theories are nuts, some may have a kernel of truth.

    Also what’s the point of this forum. You and a few others who are anti all conspiracy are clearly in the majority on a forum which was no doubt designed to be a place for conspiracy theorists to hang out. A forum that is itself a ghetto.

    The very existence of any narrative that isn’t the established narrative enrages some.


  • #29
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    A poster who doesn’t believe in any false flags. Well those that go against western narratives. Clearly. Most arguments here are not on the actual event but generalised attacks on conspiracy theorists. However, while most theories are nuts, some may have a kernel of truth.

    Also what’s the point of this forum. You and a few others who are anti all conspiracy are clearly in the majority on a forum which was no doubt designed to be a place for conspiracy theorists to hang out. A forum that is itself a ghetto.

    The very existence of any narrative that isn’t the established narrative enrages some.

    Assuming something is a false flag within minutes of the event without any evidence is complete insanity.


  • #30
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    There seems to be more believers in these forums that false flags never happen than the opposite,
    Who has stated this?

    Does not believing in the notion that the government hires actors to pretend to be victims of a fake shooting mean that we don't believe that false flags aren't a thing?

    :confused:


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  • #31
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    However, while most theories are nuts, some may have a kernel of truth.
    Which theories are nuts and which ones have a kernel of truth?
    How do we tell the difference?
    What is the kernel of truth behind the notion that the New Zealand attack was staged?
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Also what’s the point of this forum. You and a few others who are anti all conspiracy are clearly in the majority on a forum which was no doubt designed to be a place for conspiracy theorists to hang out. A forum that is itself a ghetto.
    Plenty of safe spaces out there for conspiracy theorists were people won't point out problems with their theories or point out that it's a bit silly and ghoulish to decide that an attack is a false flag before the victims are cold.


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