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01-10-2020, 07:48   #1
ncounties
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Rolling stock for Dart+ expansion

Irish Times - Plans for €2bn Dart expansion lure Bombardier to Dublin

Mod: New thread with posts moved relating to rolling stock.

Last edited by Sam Russell; 06-10-2020 at 19:57.
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01-10-2020, 15:03   #2
IE 222
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Has anymore spec requirements been released in terms of design and internal features.
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01-10-2020, 18:41   #3
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What variation of the Bombardier Aventra trains could you pick for DART+?





Do Bombardier build electrical variants of the train with South Western Railways?
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01-10-2020, 19:00   #4
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All Aventras are electric. The SWR ones are 750V DC third rail.
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01-10-2020, 23:57   #5
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Can they be produced as BEMU? I thought Bombardier and others have a separate range/models on BEMU.

Personally I think Siemens Mireo could be a good choice. Keeping in mind IE will be ordering a number of both EMU & BEMU. The Mireo comes in both forms and they are developing a hydrogen version.

Last edited by IE 222; 02-10-2020 at 00:34.
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02-10-2020, 15:29   #6
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Apparently they can be spec'd as BEMU too:

https://www.railway-technology.com/p...rdier-aventra/

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Bombardier’s Aventra is a modular, easily customisable single-deck train capable of operating in both diesel and electric modes. It is among the fastest, smartest and most economical platforms in modern rail.

The vehicle can be equipped with MITRAC traction batteries to operate as a battery electric multiple unit (BEMU).
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04-10-2020, 03:28   #7
 
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Originally Posted by IE 222 View Post
Can they be produced as BEMU? I thought Bombardier and others have a separate range/models on BEMU.

Personally I think Siemens Mireo could be a good choice. Keeping in mind IE will be ordering a number of both EMU & BEMU. The Mireo comes in both forms and they are developing a hydrogen version.
The issue with Bombardier etc is that they offer variants of existing models. It's why they and Adtranz lost the ICR contract.
I would think any future DART units will come from Japan, Korea, CAF or Stadler. They are willing to custom build units rather than just offering a variation of an existing build.
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04-10-2020, 16:32   #8
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Originally Posted by prinzeugen View Post
The issue with Bombardier etc is that they offer variants of existing models. It's why they and Adtranz lost the ICR contract.
I would think any future DART units will come from Japan, Korea, CAF or Stadler. They are willing to custom build units rather than just offering a variation of an existing build.
Yeah if they were to go Siemens it would probably be some form of the Desiro. On reflection I can't see IE buying into a BEMU project such as the Talent or Mitro unless they were given a massive deal as part of some sort of launch deal. They only intend to use a small number of BEMU units as a gap filler and an adaptable EMU unit will fulfill that requirement.

I do think they will probably lean towards a custom build. The number of alterations needed from an existing model will drag the cost up. Tokyu could have a strong lead or at least supply the bogies again. The 2600,2800& 8500s have served IE well and haven't brought about much trouble.
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04-10-2020, 16:46   #9
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I rather like the look of the Stadler Flirt trains - fewer bogies and doors, with the option of a diesel power unit to make it operate without OH wires. Now given we need different bogies, that might be useful, and having the option of using them without OH wires might allow a significant level of flexibility.

Having said that, I know nothing about trains.
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05-10-2020, 10:19   #10
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I rather like the look of the Stadler Flirt trains - fewer bogies and doors, with the option of a diesel power unit to make it operate without OH wires. Now given we need different bogies, that might be useful, and having the option of using them without OH wires might allow a significant level of flexibility.

Having said that, I know nothing about trains.
Interesting looking train. Wales going for tri-mode which matches. A lot of the orders have been for fairly short sets with limited door access and higher speeds, which suggests suitability for longer commutes but not necessarily Dart, though.

I really liked the feel of the Bombardier S8 sets used on London Metropolitan line when I visited, which covers 65 km distance (Drogheda is only 50km and Maynooth 26km). 3 Doubles doors, which made them easy to get on and off and huge standing capacity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London...7_and_S8_Stock

I'd say it will be a hard one to get right. Drogheda and Maynooth have quite different profiles to Dart. Commuter vs Rapid Transit.
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05-10-2020, 10:47   #11
Sam Russell
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Interesting looking train. Wales going for tri-mode which matches. A lot of the orders have been for fairly short sets with limited door access and higher speeds, which suggests suitability for longer commutes but not necessarily Dart, though.

I really liked the feel of the Bombardier S8 sets used on London Metropolitan line when I visited, which covers 65 km distance (Drogheda is only 50km and Maynooth 26km). 3 Doubles doors, which made them easy to get on and off and huge standing capacity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London...7_and_S8_Stock

I'd say it will be a hard one to get right. Drogheda and Maynooth have quite different profiles to Dart. Commuter vs Rapid Transit.
We will still have the current Dart stock which should all be good for another 20 years, the more recent ones for 40 years.

Also we use the diesel commuter trains on the Dart line, and the IC ones for the PPT service, so ease of getting on or off is nor important for them.

The Flirt trains could be equipped with the supplementary diesel power units to allow forays outside the OH lines, such as services to Arklow, or Dundalk, after the OH lines go as far as planned. Those units could of course be removed if they are not required.
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05-10-2020, 11:09   #12
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We will still have the current Dart stock which should all be good for another 20 years, the more recent ones for 40 years.
I thought the plan was to withdraw the LHB stock - it'll be 40 years old by the time the new carriages arrive.
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05-10-2020, 11:18   #13
Sam Russell
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I thought the plan was to withdraw the LHB stock - it'll be 40 years old by the time the new carriages arrive.
Maybe, but they have been extensively reworked once, why not do that again. Is it cheaper to rework than replace? Surely it is.
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05-10-2020, 11:42   #14
IE 222
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Maybe, but they have been extensively reworked once, why not do that again. Is it cheaper to rework than replace? Surely it is.
They'll be replaced. The mid life refurbishment was completely 15 years ago at this stage.
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05-10-2020, 11:46   #15
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Maybe, but they have been extensively reworked once, why not do that again. Is it cheaper to rework than replace? Surely it is.
40 years is about the lifespan of rail carriages, they're done.
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