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How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • #542
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Augeo wrote: »
    Not at all, your "half a bunk bed" phrase is very derogatory.
    People do what they need to do.......... .

    How is it derogatory? Again, you are showing YOUR bias here. These people were friends, I worked with them, I went to their houses for dinner. Your posts absolutely reek of a privileged person who has no idea what it's like for people not in your position.

    What do you mean they do what they need to do? Well, obviously. I'm not blaming the people who live in those places. I'm blaming the government policies which allow this to happen. It's nothing short of obscene that thousands of properties in central London are left empty, as investments from foreign buyers, while key workers like nurses are forced to commute in from zone 9 and beyond. It's all well and good saying people should work hard and earn more, but not everyone can be a banker or a senior developer. We need nurses, we need binmen, we need cafe and shop workers. You think it's perfectly acceptable for these people to get up literally in the middle of the night and commute to work on a night bus because government policies have made it impossible for them to buy or even rent a place anywhere remotely close to work.

    You just don't get it. You've chosen to live in a nice leafy part of the country and commute to your well-paid job in Dublin. You're part of the top few percent. Not everyone can have your lifestyle. The economy doesn't work like that. It used to be that 'normal' people in both London or Dublin could buy modest homes on average salaries to raise their families in. Now the living standards are getting lower and lower and lower for the majority, and you think it's grand.

    And I'm the one with the 'awful views'.


  • #543
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    I can't. In five years, I might be on 40k if I'm lucky. What exactly can I buy on this? Cute how you think properties being listed online means you can just rock up and buy them, BTW. My ex's sister is a first time buyer (in her forties) with a very good job and she's seen loads of places she's been interested in, but the offers accepted ending up being way above asking price. Plenty of cash buyers around. Her issue isn't that she doesn't want to live in Tallaght, it's that she can't even do that.

    Ok so then, you, with your low single income cannot afford to live in a house or apartment by yourself in Dublin.
    So your options are rent/share or live outside Dublin.

    Why you see this as societies problem and a mark of a dysfunctional housing market is beyond me.

    I could build 5,000 houses tomorrow and sell them for 100K each and they would be snapped up without you getting one. So then I build another 5,000 and the same happens. At what point does this become your problem and not everyone elses problem?

    There is only so much land to build houses on in Dublin, hence demand is outstripping supply.

    There are 31 properties for sale in Dublin right now for under 150K, 1 and 2 beds. But you dont want to live in those places because you have 2 masters and deserve more than having to live in Balbriggan.


  • #544
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What makes it "decent" other than your opinion that it is?

    I dont get why you just wont come out with the real issue here.
    You feel entitled to live in Dublin.

    Because it's bloody well above average income, and is a totally normal income for a professional job! The statistics are out there! What do YOU think most people earn?


  • #545
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    JESUS CHRIST.

    I never said i feel entitled to live wherever i want.

    I am a person who bought a house within their means because I couldn't afford where I wanted. I did that because i had no choice.

    Doesn't mean I can't question the system whereby the simple act of owning a house in an area or place that I would prefer (and like I have said MULTIPLE times, I'm not talking about a mansion. I would like to live in a 2 bed house or apartment in the libeerties. Hardly Ballsbrige) is impossible for someone on a decent wage.

    It's not impossible but 42k isn't a high wage in Dublin so doing so on your own you would need to save up a decent deposit.

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/property-for-sale-in-dublin-8?maxprice=200000

    Also Dublin 8 is fairly central so will always have higher demand.


  • #546
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    JESUS CHRIST.

    I never said i feel entitled to live wherever i want.

    I am a person who bought a house within their means because I couldn't afford where I wanted. I did that because i had no choice.

    Doesn't mean I can't question the system whereby the simple act of owning a house in an area or place that I would prefer (and like I have said MULTIPLE times, I'm not talking about a mansion. I would like to live in a 2 bed house or apartment in the libeerties. Hardly Ballsbrige) is impossible for someone on a decent wage.

    Oh my mistake, you only want to live in the middle of the city centre of the capital city.

    You dont think that sort of place would be in high demand?
    You dont think high demand pushes up prices?
    You dont think that there is ALWAYS going to be high demand for...high demand areas...irrespective of how many houses are built within Dublin.

    They are called high demand for a reason, its because there is little supply and lots of demand.
    How do you suggest we increase the supply of housing in the liberties exactly?


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  • #547
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Places with gangs of tracksuits intimidating random passersby, lots of drug related activity, things like that. I'd like to live anywhere reasonably safe and pleasant.

    Its things like this where you are losing people, it's not an either-or situation. It would be more realistic to say they can't afford where they would like to live. Buying in Dublin is hard on one salary but not impossible.

    The was an article in the property section of the Irish time a few weeks ago about a woman on average salary purchased a new apartment in Lucan using help to buy.


  • #548
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's not impossible but 42k isn't a high wage in Dublin so doing so on your own you would need to save up a decent deposit.

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/property-for-sale-in-dublin-8?maxprice=200000

    Also Dublin 8 is fairly central so will always have higher demand.

    It's hardly posh though, is it? Not overly safe, either. It's exactly the kind of normal, working class area that people used to buy in no bother with an average or lower than average income.


  • #549
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's not impossible but 42k isn't a high wage in Dublin so doing so on your own you would need to save up a decent deposit.

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/dublin/property-for-sale-in-dublin-8?maxprice=200000

    Also Dublin 8 is fairly central so will always have higher demand.

    Oooh, wow, 17 WHOLE HOUSES.

    I'm f*cking done here. This is just a nonsensical thread at this stage.


  • #550
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Because it's bloody well above average income, and is a totally normal income for a professional job! The statistics are out there! What do YOU think most people earn?

    What most people earn is irrelevant.
    People live where they can afford to live.
    You dont think that applies to you for some reason.


  • #551
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Because it's bloody well above average income, and is a totally normal income for a professional job! The statistics are out there! What do YOU think most people earn?

    Average isn't a great indicator and I assume that is per person rather than per household. You will be competing against couples often.


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  • #552
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    Oooh, wow, 17 WHOLE HOUSES.

    I'm f*cking done here. This is just a nonsensical thread at this stage.

    How big do you think Dublin 8 is?:confused:

    Please tell us your solution? There is planning permission for 1500 apartments in Tallaght, but of course you'd have to live in D24 rather than D8.


  • #553
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What most people earn is irrelevant.
    People live where they can afford to live.
    You dont think that applies to you for some reason.

    Obviously. The debate here is about policies which make housing unaffordable. But you fail to acknowledge this and instead blame individuals for not earning way above the average salary and for expecting a secure home.


  • #554
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    A daft search for houses /duplexes and bungalows between 25k and 200k with 2 bedrooms (because banks are less likely to lend on 1 beds ) in all of dublin nets 73 properties, 10 of those are auction reserve prices , so that leaves 63 properties for sale.

    of that 63

    6 are in tallaght
    9 are in clondalkin
    19 are in balbriggan
    13 are in finglas
    4 are in clonsilla/blanchardstown
    2 are in ballyfermot.
    2 in darndale
    8 are in various locations but all are not duplicates

    a lot of not great things to be said about balbriggan, that and its basically louth : https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057882418

    This is not a functional housing market for dublin , even out of those properties they are in the bad parts of their respective 'locations with a shady image'

    dublins house prices are unsustainable when you need to be on 51k a year to live in estates that make the news for murders, shootings, attacks on busses etc...


    I think everyone can agree that its not a healthy or normal market. I don't think anyone is saying that. To say it's not possible or wonder how can people do it is false though.

    In a normal healthy market I think prices should be ~20% lower.

    No one is saying prices are fair or that it's not difficult.


  • #555
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Average isn't a great indicator and I assume that is per person rather than per household. You will be competing against couples often.

    So what is a good indicator?


  • #556
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Yes, because that never got anyone into trouble before...

    If you don't want to do that because house prices might crash, why not sit and wait for the crash and pick up a nice bargain basement house?


  • #557
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Obviously. The debate here is about policies which make housing unaffordable. But you fail to acknowledge this and instead blame individuals for not earning way above the average salary and for expecting a secure home.

    What policies are those exactly?


  • #558
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    How is it derogatory? Again, you are showing YOUR bias here. These people were friends, I worked with them, I went to their houses for dinner. Your posts absolutely reek of a privileged person who has no idea what it's like for people not in your position.............

    Privileged ........ lucky .....I suppose.
    Working class background......... working for nearly 20 years. Yup, privileged.


  • #559
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    Oooh, wow, 17 WHOLE HOUSES.

    I'm f*cking done here. This is just a nonsensical thread at this stage.

    How many houses do you need?


  • #560
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    So what is a good indicator?

    Median is probably more relevant. You'd then have to pinpoint to Dublin and then within Dublin to the high demand areas people want.

    The ultimate indicator is obviously can you afford it? If you can't there's likely someone else who can.


  • #561
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    JESUS CHRIST.

    I never said i feel entitled to live wherever i want.

    I am a person who bought a house within their means because I couldn't afford where I wanted. I did that because i had no choice.

    Doesn't mean I can't question the system whereby the simple act of owning a house in an area or place that I would prefer (and like I have said MULTIPLE times, I'm not talking about a mansion. I would like to live in a 2 bed house or apartment in the libeerties. Hardly Ballsbrige) is impossible for someone on a decent wage.

    I would like to live in Dalkey .l cant afford it and never could .We bought where we could afford and its that simple .Life is not always about what we want
    I wouldnt mind a house on the coast of Croatia either but I cant afford it .


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  • #562
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    ........You've chosen to live in a nice leafy part of the country and commute to your well-paid job in Dublin..............

    You could by a flat near me for €180k.......... if you were on €40k that'd be feasible. :)
    I reckon if it came to it though, it'd not be leafy enough for you :)


  • #563
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Ush1 wrote: »
    How big do you think Dublin 8 is?:confused:

    Please tell us your solution? There is planning permission for 1500 apartments in Tallaght, but of course you'd have to live in D24 rather than D8.

    I don't have a solution. I'm not a f*cking property planner.

    I'd be happy to live in Tallaght tbh if I needed to. I want to live in D8 because it's close to my wifes family and where she grew up. You know, those crazy ideas of wanting to live where you have connections already, so you can support family as they age, maybe get involved in a community you care about so that it's vibrant and not completely devoid of connection and character.

    That's why I bought a house where I could afford that I can live in now whilst enhancing my career, building up further savings and then buy a house where I want. But I can still question why everyones solution to someone having a preference of where to live is 'make more money' rather than 'how can we keep communities strong, houses/flats affordable so people can live there and ensure that folks who work in the less well paid jobs that are ESSENTIAL to running a city are able to have a decent standard of living in their community'.

    But hey I guess all that would make me a dirty Communist so whatever.


  • #564
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    So what is a good indicator?

    Median household income in Dublin.
    and even then it means as many people are earning more as earning less.


  • #565
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    I don't have a solution. I'm not a f*cking property planner.

    I'd be happy to live in Tallaght tbh if I needed to. I want to live in D8 because it's close to my wifes family and where she grew up. You know, those crazy ideas of wanting to live where you have connections already, so you can support family as they age, maybe get involved in a community you care about so that it's vibrant and not completely devoid of connection and character.

    That's why I bought a house where I could afford that I can live in now whilst enhancing my career, building up further savings and then buy a house where I want. But I can still question why everyones solution to someone having a preference of where to live is 'make more money' rather than 'how can we keep communities strong, houses/flats affordable so people can live there and ensure that folks who work in the less well paid jobs that are ESSENTIAL to running a city are able to have a decent standard of living in their community'.

    But hey I guess all that would make me a dirty Communist so whatever.

    I dont know about a Communist, but you are certainly not a realist.

    How do you propose these affordable houses "in the community" are kept for people on relatively low wages?

    What keeps places cheap is lack of demand.

    There is no magic wand here, you are trying to break the basic laws of an economy.


  • #566
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I dont know about a Communist, but you are certainly not a realist.

    How do you propose these affordable houses "in the community" are kept for people on relatively low wages?

    What keeps places cheap is lack of demand.

    There is no magic wand here, you are trying to break the basic laws of an economy.

    you will actually find that these 'laws of economics' are not laws at all, but made up by humans, this is where the fundamentals of neoclassical economics collapse, i.e. the construct of supply and demand etc.


  • #567
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Anything to be said for a bit of High Rise?

    The dubs catching up with Cork there on that yet? ;)


  • #568
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Well, I would love a chi chi townhouse around Beggars bush and the surrounding areas preferable overlooking a pleasant park and near some nice brunch place, in desperation could consider Ringsend but only the nicer bits.


  • #569
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    I don't have a solution. I'm not a f*cking property planner.

    In that case it's just a moan really.
    baby and crumble wrote: »
    I'd be happy to live in Tallaght tbh if I needed to. I want to live in D8 because it's close to my wifes family and where she grew up. You know, those crazy ideas of wanting to live where you have connections already, so you can support family as they age, maybe get involved in a community you care about so that it's vibrant and not completely devoid of connection and character.

    You set roots in a new place. My wife had to move from Cork, she has no family here in Dublin. My parents were both from the country and moved to Dublin and again had no family or connections here whatsoever.

    I want to live in a big house in Terenure and am working towards hopefully doing so in the future, but I'm not whinging or counting on the world to conform to my financial limitations.
    baby and crumble wrote: »
    That's why I bought a house where I could afford that I can live in now whilst enhancing my career, building up further savings and then buy a house where I want. But I can still question why everyones solution to someone having a preference of where to live is 'make more money' rather than 'how can we keep communities strong, houses/flats affordable so people can live there and ensure that folks who work in the less well paid jobs that are ESSENTIAL to running a city are able to have a decent standard of living in their community'.

    But hey I guess all that would make me a dirty Communist so whatever.

    There is social housing allocations. Housing and space is a finite commodity at the end of the day, Ireland is far from unique and urbanisation is a much bigger issue in other countries.

    Originally the wealthy moved from the cities to the suburbs, now the reverse is happening. The way of the world.


  • #570
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,646 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Lets start to face facts here.

    The reality is, due to changes in society for the better, most family units now have two earners at least up until the age of 35-40. That means that most people buying (houses at least) are buying them off the strength of dual incomes. Further to that people tend to couple up in the same socio economic groupings ( so trainee accountants solicitors etc).

    Despite what people want to believe, they are loads of couples under the age of 30 with combined salaries around 150k, so thats what you are up against.

    If you are a single person on a low income you cant compete with this. If youa re a single person on a high income you will struggle.

    That means some people get pushed further out, but what do you want, to go back to a scenario where women dont go to college and become professionals?


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  • #571
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    One thing to note this housing situation will be sorted one way or the other. It's just not sustainable the way it is.

    The current prices are due to a shortage. One day the shortage will be ended either through building or through a recession.

    The prices are not as a result of quality of houses or location, it's shortage. When the shortage eventually goes, prices will have to come down as demand for rent drops and thus yields drop and thus house prices drop.

    I'm actually in a position where I have a sizable chunk of money but I'm holding off currently on buying.

    These things can turn around quickly. Just keep saving as much as you can for the opportunity.


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