Should ownership of cats be banned?

badaj0z · 01-12-2020 8:58pm #1

The Biggest Bird Killers
I found the figures below with simple Google searches. They are both from the UK and from publications that support the lead ban in shooting. Look closely. You will soon note that the figures show that cats kill 270 times as many birds than are killed by lead shot. It is time to look at banning cats.

https://www.birdguides.com/news/uk-s...public%20alike.

The decision comes despite the well-known negative impacts of lead poisoning in both humans and wildlife. More than 6,000 tonnes of lead ammunition are fired over the UK countryside every year in areas where birds feed, and are left behind strewn on the ground. Birds often mistake tiny shot pellets for grit or seeds, and ingest them. Up to 100,000 waterbirds in the UK die every year through ingesting poisonous lead shot. Dead and dying birds are usually taken quickly by predators – making their deaths unseen and 'invisible' to shooters and the wider public alike.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wi...0been%20caught.

The most recent figures of how many creatures are killed by cats are from the Mammal Society. They estimate that cats in the UK catch up to 100 million prey items over spring and summer, of which 27 million are birds.
This is the number of prey items which were known to have been caught. We don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably:
• house sparrows
• blue tits
• blackbirds
• starlings
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gzoladz · 01-12-2020 9:36pm

I would take it up a level...there is A LOT of damage caused to wildlife by irresponsible pet owners (not only cats), in the form of attacks and disturbance.

Cats killing birds is a problem, but so is disturbance caused by dogs off leash to protected species in their roosting and breeding sites. The fact that dogs kill birds less often than cats, does not mean the damage they cause is less serious or it has a lower impact.

I would not favour banning the ownership of neither cats or dogs though, as there are loads of benefits associated with it, i.e. lonely owners, etc. But would definitely be in favour of real (as opposed to pretended) policing, including fines, etc.

magicbastarder · 01-12-2020 9:48pm

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

Manach · 01-12-2020 10:09pm

No.
This notion seems to be a political overreach not seen since say Mao's experiements with social engineering. Cats have been a staple companiion for centuries and as I gazed outside my window this morning, the country still bejeweled with bird song and flight. There are limits to what the law can accomplish without significant pushback and this is one of them.

Hello 2D Person Below · 01-12-2020 10:17pm

The cat and the bird, one of nature's great rivalries.

whisky_galore · 01-12-2020 10:20pm

Lol. They can't even control dogs with seemingly optional licences, chipping and a handful of wardens, good luck with cats.

Stihl waters · 01-12-2020 10:32pm

And what would you have me do with the rat problem before I got cats, I live near a river which is a crawling with rats, I got my 2 cats 3 years ago and since then the rat problem has gotten much better, no more rats living in my shed, I also have bird feeders and the birds seem to feed away without too much interference from the cats

magicbastarder · 01-12-2020 10:33pm

this is worth a listen on the topic, if you've three quarters of an hour to spare. collie ennis and collette kinsella talking about this very topic.
(TL;DL - cats are great, but keep them indoors)

https://play.acast.com/s/the-critter-shed/weneedtotalkaboutted..-

Rubberchikken · 01-12-2020 10:35pm

When they ban imbicles shooting animals, either in 'season', or not, then I'll discuss cats and birds.

We've have 3 cats and have had at least 7 previously and the number of birds they've killed has been minimal.

unkel · 01-12-2020 10:37pm

Number of birds killed per year globally by wind turbines: 40,000
Number of birds killed per year globally by domestic cats: 4,000,000,000

No typo. Four billion. For every single bird killed by a wind turbine, cats kill one hundred thousand of them

I haven't heard about birds being driven into extinction because of cats though. I guess cats kill the most vulnerable birds. Survival of the fittest. So no, I do not feel we should ban domestic cats.

eviltwin · 01-12-2020 10:38pm

Do you think cats should become extinct or something?

I have two cats. They are mainly house cats but have access to a catio outside so they never get a chance to kill wildlife. Why should responsible pet owners be made to give up their cats and why should a healthy animal be, presumably euthanised?

It also doesn’t address the issue of feral cats. What happens to them?

El Tarangu · 01-12-2020 10:40pm

I don't think that cats should be banned, but I do think that, within 20 or 30 years, the notion that people allowed their cats to roam outside laying waste to local wildlife will seem as irresponsible as people leaving their dogs out to worry sheep (and god knows what else) back in the day.

Weepsie · 01-12-2020 10:40pm

Neighbours cats has killed a few mice and I'm sure a few rats. I'd give it it's own house if it can keep doing that.

Rather thabln banning cats, more should be done to encourage people to help natural wildlife.

Half my road has a cobblelock tarmacced garden.

I live near mobhi road, where loads are opposing the quality bus corridors under the pretence of saving the trees, yet have paved over their gardens, cutting down trees so they can fit their third vehicle in

Stihl waters · 01-12-2020 10:42pm

unkel wrote: »

Number of birds killed per year globally by wind turbines: 40,000
Number of birds killed per year globally by domestic cats: 4,000,000,000,000

No typo. Four billion. For every single bird killed by a wind turbine, cats kill one hundred thousand of them

I haven't heard about birds being driven into extinction because of cats though. I guess cats kill the most vulnerable birds. Survival of the fittest. So no, I do not feel we should ban domestic cats.

I'll think you'll find that is a typo

unkel · 01-12-2020 10:48pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

I'll think you'll find that is a typo

Nope. From nature.com:

We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually

Linky

iwillhtfu · 01-12-2020 10:49pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

I'll think you'll find that is a typo

Stihl waters · 01-12-2020 10:51pm

unkel wrote: »

Nope. From nature.com:

Linky

I meant there's only 9 zeros in a billion :pac:

unkel · 01-12-2020 10:52pm

Ha! My finger must have got stuck on the keyboard a bit

Edited now...

magicbastarder · 01-12-2020 11:09pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It also doesn’t address the issue of feral cats. What happens to them?

TNR.

Meeoow · 01-12-2020 11:53pm

What about the amount of humans who kill birds and eat them? How many turkeys, chickens and geese are consumed, or thrown in the bin by greedy humans. At least the birds killed by cats aren't intensively farmed, then slaughtered.

gozunda · 01-12-2020 11:57pm

Meeoow wrote: »

What about the amount of humans who kill birds and eat them? How many turkeys, chickens and geese are consumed, or thrown in the bin by greedy humans. At least the birds killed by cats aren't intensively farmed, then slaughtered.

Username fits ...

Now kitty how many times have I told you - not to use the laptop!

SmartinMartin · 02-12-2020 12:01am

Meeoow wrote: »

What about the amount of humans who kill birds and eat them? How many turkeys, chickens and geese are consumed, or thrown in the bin by greedy humans. At least the birds killed by cats aren't intensively farmed, then slaughtered.

Chicken. Slurp.

Trouser Snake · 02-12-2020 12:05am

El Tarangu wrote: »

I don't think that cats should be banned, but I do think that, within 20 or 30 years, the notion that people allowed their cats to roam outside laying waste to local wildlife will seem as irresponsible as people leaving their dogs out to worry sheep (and god knows what else) back in the day.

Not to mention harassing or killing other neighbours' pets, yet they're still allowed roam unrestricted.

Water John · 02-12-2020 12:06am

A person can own a dog, nobody can claim to own a cat.

eviltwin · 02-12-2020 12:07am

magicbastarder wrote: »

TNR.

Impossible to get them all

o1s1n · 02-12-2020 12:10am

Water John wrote: »

A person can own a dog, nobody can claim to own a cat.

I own two trained indoor cats who are as interactive and obedient as a dog might be.

Neither has killed a bird in their life.

02-12-2020 12:13am

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

How would you know? be next to impossible to tell what they were up to as they must be out at some point. We used to get loads of small birds, finches, tits, robins at the feeders every year, until the feral cats got out of hand, one neighbour is encouraging them by disposing of their food, now others have started, dont even see sparrows here anymore, the cat population has exploded, I would be very much in favour of reducing them by any means.

Stihl waters wrote: »

And what would you have me do with the rat problem before I got cats, I live near a river which is a crawling with rats, I got my 2 cats 3 years ago and since then the rat problem has gotten much better, no more rats living in my shed, I also have bird feeders and the birds seem to feed away without too much interference from the cats

I think you're incorrect, found a good article recently that showed cats dont actually catch rats, might have the pdf of it somewhere, they either make them more elusive so they aren't seen or if the rat has a specific parasite, they actually embolden the rats who get killed and the cats pass it on. I dont believe that cats kill many rats, they probably kill mice, but if they are well fed, I dont think they will hunt or kill them.
Maybe get some good jack russels? I'd have thought they'd be better at it?

(edit) I should say, along with the neighbour putting out food (meat and fat), the onlt other thing noticed a significant increase alongside the feral cats was rat droppings in the foul water drain and under where the neighbour leaves the food, IMO rats exist alongside cats and cats wont go near them, the only thing that reduced the sign of the rat droppings (piles of the stuff) was getting the HSE out to lay traps and bait the drain, the idiot in question still leaves food out on the wall.

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you think cats should become extinct or something?

I have two cats. They are mainly house cats but have access to a catio outside so they never get a chance to kill wildlife. Why should responsible pet owners be made to give up their cats and why should a healthy animal be, presumably euthanised?

It also doesn’t address the issue of feral cats. What happens to them?

I think feral cats should be trapped, neutered and allowed to not breed, they are a nuisance.

nedkelly123 · 02-12-2020 12:17am

5G has killed more people then cats

SmartinMartin · 02-12-2020 12:20am

In fairness they're a horrible animal, the wasp of the animal world.

[Deleted User] · 02-12-2020 12:26am

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

How do you know? Are they inside or outside cats?
clearly most of the posters believe they should be allowed to let their cats roam free.

02-12-2020 12:44am

SmartinMartin wrote: »

In fairness they're a horrible animal, the wasp of the animal world.

Wasps are maligned and necessary creatures, cats aren't native, but I think if they are domesticated, well fed and neutered, they are less likely to kill much/many/too many.
I know they will kill though, as we had a cat for years, she did bring back the occasional mouse so we knew she dealt with that, and she did kill starlings occasionally, they are nice, but they are killers.
She was well fed and she still hunted that we could tell, but we always had small birds at the feeders right at the house.

Ferals are another story IMO, they need to feed, they get fed by people occasionally, I think they will decimate other animals, especially birds, I just dont believe they deal with rats whatsoever.

bubblypop wrote: »

How do you know? Are they inside or outside cats?
clearly most of the posters believe they should be allowed to let their cats roam free.

Imo, cats need to roam, but domestic cats should be neutered, they breed like rabbits, so if there is a feral cat somewhere, they will breed with that if they can and that problem will just take off once it gets started.

I think neutering might reduce their tendencys (for males), limits injuries from fighting, and the noise, between fighting and mating.

I do miss seeing the greenfinches, goldfinches, all kids of blue tits, robins, even the sparrows, now we have exactly zero, took the feeder down this year, having not seen them for years, all mainly down to one neighbour who disposes of waste meat and food and encourages them.

Should ownership of cats be banned?

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