Explaining religion to a 5 year old

detoxkid · 21-01-2020 12:12am #1

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

Padre_Pio · 21-01-2020 12:14am

detoxkid wrote: »

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

Personally I would try to explain Catholicism in the overall context of world religions, ie some people believe X, other people believe Y, we believe Z, no one is right or wrong in their beliefs.

JustAThought · 21-01-2020 12:19am

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

jlm29 · 21-01-2020 12:27am

JustAThought wrote: »

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

Many areas don’t have an option of “taking kids out and sending them to non-religious schools”. Non-denominational schools don’t exist in most smaller towns and villages, and I’d imagine are over -subscribed in cities and bigger towns.

The government doesn’t ask what religion you practise when they collect the tax from your wages to fund the schools, so I don’t see why a tax payer (maybe the OP doesn’t pay tax, sorry for assuming) should have to send their child to a school they think is inferior educationally because of religious issues.

OP, if you feel strongly about it, you can have your child sit out the religion classes. Its probably happening more and more. It’s worth thinking about what you plan to do when it comes to communion, confirmation years.

borderlinemeath · 21-01-2020 12:30am

JustAThought wrote: »

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

Have you any idea how few and far between non religious/non denominational /educate together schools are?? Or how over subscribed they are? There can be very little choice for parents, it's either the local (probably catholic) school, or a waiting list for an educate together perhaps a great distance away from home and after school childcare.

I'm in the same situation for next year, opt for the best local primary, and play the lottery and put her name down for the nearest ET along with all the other lapsed catholics - mostly so they don't have to have their friends and acquaintances sneer at them - a bit like your post comes across.

Anne_cordelia · 21-01-2020 12:31am

detoxkid wrote: »

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

We explain it’s a story that some people believe but we don’t believe it. We’ve answered any questions that came from it but haven’t offered much information except for counteracting the creationist stuff with evolution. We’ve basically said people didn’t understand evolution and science years ago so came up with these stories to help them understand and explain.

blackbox · 21-01-2020 12:38am

I don't understand why prayers etc. are taught during normal school hours - and funded by public money.

Fair enough doing it after school for those who want it.

SusieBlue · 21-01-2020 12:45am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Personally I would try to explain Catholicism in the overall context of world religions, ie some people believe X, other people believe Y, we believe Z, no one is right or wrong in their beliefs.

I would do this and just add that all religions fundamentally believe the same thing, show kindness to others, don’t intentionally hurt, try to lead a good honest life etc. and that all the religions interpret it differently.

I would avoid the topic of sinning and hell as I really don’t think that’s appropriate for children.
I would explain that if you hurt someone you should apologise etc. but wouldn’t touch on eternal damnation or any of that stuff with a barge pole.

Sardonicat · 21-01-2020 12:47am

JustAThought wrote: »

If you are not a believer in the catholic faith and do not want to bother supporting or teaching your child why have it baptised and stand swearing with 2 godparents oaths to a god you do not believe in that you believe in the faith and will bring your child up a catholic? Take your child out if the school and do it the favour of being honest and send it to a non religious or no religion school. Dont be blocking a place in a religious school whose values you have no intention of upholding or honouring.

Where are these non religious schools in Ireland?

Sardonicat · 21-01-2020 12:48am

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

We explain it’s a story that some people believe but we don’t believe it. We’ve answered any questions that came from it but haven’t offered much information except for counteracting the creationist stuff with evolution. We’ve basically said people didn’t understand evolution and science years ago so came up with these stories to help them understand and explain.

Creationist in a Catholic school?

Padre_Pio · 21-01-2020 12:49am

Sardonicat wrote: »

Where are these non religious schools in Ireland?

Please don't feed the troll.

It didn't take long for someone to drag an honest question off topic.

lazygal · 21-01-2020 10:47am

We don't believe in any god. So that's what we tell our children, there's probably no god no matter what they hear in school.
FWIW ours are in an educate together and they still come home parroting ****e about Islam, Christian beliefs and all other religions. It does my head it that we have to explain each and every religion is nonsense.

shesty · 21-01-2020 11:20am

Yes we have this.

5 year old...God made the world, all the rest.

I do my best, if I am honest.I am not a staunch Catholic myself...if religion wasn't done in school it wouldn't bother me.It kind of...stops me in my tracks a little bit when my child comes home telling me this stuff, definitely.

That being said I am ok with my child being raised with a faith.Honestly, I have started to take her to Mass to give her context for what she is being told.I realised she has no context, no background, no bigger picture, no understanding of why on earth she is randomly being told this stuff.Mass won't answer all her questions but it gives a context for religion to her.If she decides it's not for her, that's ok.

As for answering her questions, I tend to say "people who go to our church (she knows the building as it is town centre) believe/think that God made the world", "people believe that Jesus was God's son" or whatever the question of the day is.I have no problem telling her there is a book of stories about God and Jesus called the Bible, and that book says that God made the world.But I am scientific in training myself and equally, I have no problem discussing the Big Bang theory (not the TV show!) With her, as she is very interested in stars and planets and that.(she is a sponge for knowledge).

Religion has come up for us in the context of funerals lately you see, and why is there a Mass for a dead person and why are there crosses in graveyards.I do my best to give her the factual information about religion.I am not going to pretend to her that it is responsible for all for Creation, she can take what beliefs she likes from it.I will not be telling her that one belief or the other is stupid because that is quite intolerant.My own view is that people can have their beliefs in either direction, once they don't shove them down my throat, and vice versa.

Dravokivich · 21-01-2020 11:24am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Please don't feed the troll.

It didn't take long for someone to drag an honest question off topic.

Mod:

*Ahem*

Please report posts you feel are questionable in their merit. You are also meandering from the topic by discussing this within the thread.

borderlinemeath · 21-01-2020 11:50am

shesty wrote: »

Religion has come up for us in the context of funerals lately you see, and why is there a Mass for a dead person and why are there crosses in graveyards.I do my best to give her the factual information about religion.I am not going to pretend to her that it is responsible for all for Creation, she can take what beliefs she likes from it.I will not be telling her that one belief or the other is stupid because that is quite intolerant.My own view is that people can have their beliefs in either direction, once they don't shove them down my throat, and vice versa.

As a funny anecdote, my daughter is 4 and goes to a dance class in a community hall attached to the local protestant church. She has no concept of religion, but has been to a few funerals, including her granny, who's grave she visits regularly.

We passed the church in the car Sunday morning and she was worried she was missing her ballet class as the car park was full. I told her that, no, people were in mass, to which she replied "Who died?":o

shesty · 21-01-2020 12:40pm

We had a bit of that.And she was pointing out crosses in every fence and field we passed byðŸ˜‚ It is only when you start trying to explain it to a blank slate like a child that you realise it is all a bit nuts!

I guess there are just some rituals around the big things in life like death and marriage and that, and I just want them to have a context for them.Even if it isn't what they want to believe when they get bigger.Not going near hell or sins or anything like that.Totally OTT for a small child (how did we ever survive...)

Wheety · 21-01-2020 12:46pm

Schools can't use religion to discriminate anymore. I will not be baptising my daughter but there's a Catholic school around the corner from us, and we'll be sending her there. If she asks me about religion, as above, I'll try and explain that some people believe in one God and others believe in different ones. If she asks me, I'll be honest and tell her I don't believe in any God.

lazygal · 21-01-2020 1:58pm

Minority religious schools are still allowed to discriminate, as can all religious second level schools. The 'baptism barrier' only applies to Catholic primary schools. It's a good change though. At least people won't be able to use schools as an excuse any more.

Foweva Awone · 21-01-2020 2:39pm

My son isn't christened but he's in a catholic school, he comes home talking about the religious doctrine they teach there like it's facts. I have explained to him the difference between facts and beliefs, I tell him that I don't believe in any of it but it's fine if he wants to ... it's also fine if he ever changes his mind and doesn't want to believe in it any more. For now he believes in it, he's only six, while I'm not TOTALLY comfortable with it I guess it's no more harmful than him believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

Neyite · 21-01-2020 3:16pm

detoxkid wrote: »

My daughter started school this year . It's a Catholic school she has been learning prayers and about Catholic beliefs - around Christmas for example. This is obviously fair game for a Catholic school. She has started asking questions about the stuff she's learning and practising prayers at home. We christened our children but aren't mass goers or religious people. I strongly believe in bringing my kids up with good ethics and morals so when she asks questions I try to bring it back to that but I'm struggling when she repeats some of the beliefs from school back home. I want to give her the freedom to decide on this herself and don't want to be negative about Catholicism but at the same time don't want to be hypocritical. We choose the school because it's the best school locally. Has anyone else encountered this - any advice on how to handle it?

We are the same, no choice in school where we are, and aside from the Catholic ethos it's an excellent school, with excellent teachers and otherwise perfect for us.

I've just said that different people believe different things and those other religions have some different rules to Catholicism and that none of us really know for sure what's right, but that most of the different religions teach similar things -being kind to each other, not stealing or killing etc. So even though there might be differences, the important thing to remember is that.

That's all you can do really.

[Deleted User] · 21-01-2020 4:33pm

detoxkid wrote: »

any advice on how to handle it?

There was a character in Star Trek with an Indian background who used to convey his moral points through stories. I always found that nice.

I try to do the same with my kids. And when they get the moral point the story was meant to deliver I remind them the point was real - but the story was a fairy tale made up to package it. They should hold on to the point - use the story to remember it - but not believe the story because to do so without any reason would be really silly.

When it comes to discussing religion with my kids then - the ground work is already done. I need do no more with them than tell them this is just another example of the above. It's all just more Panchatantra.

kandr10 · 21-01-2020 9:06pm

Could be worth asking for the grow in live book to be sent home occasionally. There are pages in each unit to be read at home which might put into context for you where the questions are coming from. Incidentally, most discussions centre around being kind to each other etc. I’ve not really come across hell and damnation in primary school and I distinctly remember the Big Bang theory being taught in the old programme. I haven’t come across it yet in the new programme, but I’ve not yet taught all levels with it.

lazygal · 21-01-2020 10:12pm

kandr10 wrote: »

Could be worth asking for the grow in live book to be sent home occasionally. There are pages in each unit to be read at home which might put into context for you where the questions are coming from. Incidentally, most discussions centre around being kind to each other etc. I’ve not really come across hell and damnation in primary school and I distinctly remember the Big Bang theory being taught in the old programme. I haven’t come across it yet in the new programme, but I’ve not yet taught all levels with it.

Grow in Love is awful. Encourages children to draw the crucifixion, what kind of person wants children drawing pictures of a man being torturered to death. And also has the "Mary says yes" story where a child is encouraged to say yes to any authority figure once it is religious. Just such a toxic message.

[Deleted User] · 21-01-2020 10:17pm

You christened your child into the Catholic religion.
If you're not religious why did you do this?
It's your own fault now.
Explain to your child that you made her be part of a church you don't believe in.

RentDayBlues · 21-01-2020 10:20pm

I detest grow in love! We’re on the second child now going through juniors and she’s taking a lot more in than the eldest so we’re faced with lots of questions.

The party line here is: some people believe that and it’s up to you to decide what you want to believe in

It’s a waste of time and resources and the sooner it’s removed from schools the better

seannash · 21-01-2020 10:21pm

Foweva Awone wrote: »

My son isn't christened but he's in a catholic school, he comes home talking about the religious doctrine they teach there like it's facts. I have explained to him the difference between facts and beliefs, I tell him that I don't believe in any of it but it's fine if he wants to ... it's also fine if he ever changes his mind and doesn't want to believe in it any more. For now he believes in it, he's only six, while I'm not TOTALLY comfortable with it I guess it's no more harmful than him believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

This,
If you dont believe just admit it to yourself and your child. Tell them they are just stories people tell to teach them right and wrong

lazygal · 21-01-2020 10:29pm

RentDayBlues wrote: »

I detest grow in love! We’re on the second child now going through juniors and she’s taking a lot more in than the eldest so we’re faced with lots of questions.

The party line here is: some people believe that and it’s up to you to decide what you want to believe in

It’s a waste of time and resources and the sooner it’s removed from schools the better

It's just all sorts of wrong. Seeing little children chanting these horrible prayers and thinking they have sins and that they should draw a dying man. Baffles me that so many teachers think it's lovely and parents go along with it.

kandr10 · 21-01-2020 10:32pm

lazygal wrote: »

Grow in Love is awful. Encourages children to draw the crucifixion, what kind of person wants children drawing pictures of a man being torturered to death. And also has the "Mary says yes" story where a child is encouraged to say yes to any authority figure once it is religious. Just such a toxic message.

I’m not really out to defend it or put it down as a programme. Like any text book it has its pros and cons. Again, having a look through the relevant ‘at home’ sections would give context as to how crucifixion (as an example) is brought up for a child’s particular age group. It might just help the op to frame their response to their child if they can see what exactly has been taught and discussed. That response may still be disagreement but it’s easier to frame it for the age group with the full information on what has been covered.

lazygal · 21-01-2020 10:33pm

kandr10 wrote: »

I’m not really out to defend it or put it down as a programme. Like any text book it has its pros and cons. Again, having a look through the relevant ‘at home’ sections would give context as to how crucifixion (as an example) is brought up for a child’s particular age group. It might just help the op to frame their response to their child if they can see what exactly has been taught and discussed. That response may still be disagreement but it’s easier to frame it for the age group with the full information on what has been covered.

I don't think a child needs to know about a man being tortured in any context.

kandr10 · 21-01-2020 11:00pm

lazygal wrote: »

I don't think a child needs to know about a man being tortured in any context.

And as such you’ve chosen not to send your child to a catholic school. I’m sure most people who agree to have their child take part in re lessons are aware that crucifixion is a big part of Catholicism.
My point again is that looking at the book that’s being used will lend context to the op.

eviltwin · 22-01-2020 8:31am

Non religious in our house and very fortunate to have a place in an ET for my son. We tell him the usual spiel that everyone has their own beliefs on different things and should be respected etc etc. One of the benefits of the ET system is that this is their default so the message we give is reinforced at school which is great. It must be difficult to try and teach your child all faiths should be treated equally when the education system promotes one over all others.

Explaining religion to a 5 year old

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