Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Football ranking table

1356746

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Because I rate Roscommon as a better team than Cavan. That said, I'm usually fairly hard on our lads. I just feel Roscommon have a more experienced team and we haven't beaten Them for a few years now at underage or senior level.

    I'd also fear the Ros U21s this year for example, as good as our lads were in dispatching Tyrone the other evening.

    Monaghan lost only one game last year. That was to Cavan. Meath only lost two, to Cavan and Monaghan.

    Fair enough if you think that however even the new ranking table has Cavan well ahead of Roscommon. BTW Monaghan also lost to Roscommon last year.

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/finnerans-late-point-steals-it-for-rossies-29151317.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Fair enough if you think that however even the new ranking table has Cavan well ahead of Roscommon. BTW Monaghan also lost to Roscommon last year.

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/finnerans-late-point-steals-it-for-rossies-29151317.html

    Apologies, my error. I thought Monaghan had only lost one game.

    As I said, Cavan are ahead of Roscommon because of our results last year. The Derry one was particularly impressive. I'm generally very hard on our lads but we haven't beat Roscommon at senior or underage level in a few years. Roscommon also hadn't much chance of progress last year because they played Mayo and Tyrone iirc, two of the top five or six teams in the country.

    I'm not going to read much into the game between the two teams at the weekend but I think the Division 3 final will allow us to see how both shape up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    laoisman11 wrote: »
    Haha, thanks! :p

    League results will vary positions slightly, wait till early championship for some serious jumps based on shock results and then you'll have a strong case for "too high"/"too low"!!! Later on in the championship the effect of the shock results will normally be negated when the team loses......

    What's the point in putting a team that doesn't exist (KK) on this table?


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Updated table following the results of the 29th and 30th of March.

    The big winners were Tipperary and Antrim (both up 2 places), while Derry, Meath and Fermanagh all moved up a place. Cavan, despite their win over Roscommon, dropped a position due to Meath leap-frogging them into 11th place.

    Kilkenny have been temporarily removed from the rankings until they rejoin either league or championship.

    Position|(previous)|Team|Rating points
    1|(1)|Dublin|105,53
    2|(2)|Mayo|102,2
    3|(4)|Cork|99,86
    4|(3)|Kerry|99,34
    5|(5)|Tyrone|98,93
    6|(6)|Donegal|97,28
    7|(7)|Monaghan|92,43
    8|(9)|Derry|91,00
    9|(8)|Kildare|88,88
    10|(10)|Down|88,52
    11|(12)|Meath|87,51
    12|(11)|Cavan|87,45
    13|(13)|Laois|83,21
    14|(14)|Galway|83,16
    15|(15)|Roscommon|81,70
    16|(16)|Armagh|79,9
    17|(17)|Louth|78,46
    18|(20)▲▲|Tipperary|77,89
    19|(19)|Westmeath|77,06
    20|(18)▼▼|Wexford|75,69
    21|(22)|Fermanagh|75,60
    22|(21)|Limerick|75,22
    23|(23)|Clare|73,29
    24|(25)|Sligo|72,16
    25|(24)|Longford|71,56
    26|(26)|Wicklow|69,50
    27|(29)▲▲|Antrim|66,54
    28|(28)|Offaly|66,72
    29|(27)▼▼|Leitrim|66,54
    30|(30)|Waterford|62,75
    31|(31)|London|61,43
    32|(32)|Carlow|60,51
    33|(33)|New York|54,10


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Updated table following the final round of the league.

    This week's changes were more influenced by losers rather than winners – Kerry's defeat at the hands of Cork saw them drop two places in the rankings, while Down's loss in Portlaoise also resulted in a two-place drop. Wicklow's win over Tipperary helped move them up one position in the rankings, with Tipperary dropping 2 places. Antrim fell two places after their defeat at home to Clare, while Leitrim advanced 2 positions following their win over London.



    Position|Δ|Team|Rating points
    1|-|Dublin|106,35
    2|-|Mayo|102,64
    3|-|Cork|101,54
    4||Tyrone|98,11
    5||Donegal|97,70
    6|▼▼|Kerry|97,66
    7|-|Monaghan|92,82
    8|-|Derry|90,56
    9|-|Kildare|89,27
    10||Meath|88,21
    11||Cavan|87,69
    12|▼▼|Down|87,40
    13|-|Laois|84,33
    14|-|Galway|82,77
    15|-|Roscommon|82,07
    16|-|Armagh|79,48
    17|-|Louth|77,76
    18||Westmeath|76,67
    19||Wexford|76,33
    20|▼▼|Tipperary|76,32
    21|-|Fermanagh|75,01
    22|-|Limerick|74,98
    23|-|Clare|74,13
    24|-|Sligo|71,79
    25||Wicklow|71,07
    26||Longford|70,92
    27|▲▲|Leitrim|67,43
    28|-|Offaly|67,31
    29|▼▼|Antrim|66,34
    30|-|Waterford|63,49
    31|-|London|60,54
    32|-|Carlow|59,77
    33|-|New York|54,10


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Updated table following league semi-finals

    Wins for Dublin and Derry over Cork and Mayo, respectively, had no effect on the position of teams in the rankings. The lead that Dublin have opened up on the opposition is significant and it is unlikely that Derry, based on the current rankings, will be able to beat Dublin in the League final. Nevertheless, a win over Dublin (or even a draw) for Derry will move them above Monaghan in the rankings. For Dublin, a win in the league final will reinforce their position at the top of the rankings and leave them well set for the championship.



    #|Δ|Team|Ranking points| |#|Δ|Team|Ranking points| |#|Δ|Team|Ranking points
    1|-|Dublin|107,27| |12|-|Down|87,40| |23|-|Clare|74,13
    2|-|Mayo|101,04| |13|-|Laois|84,33| |24|-|Sligo|71,79
    3|-|Cork|100,63| |14|-|Galway|82,77| |25|-|Wicklow|71,07
    4|-|Tyrone|98,11| |15|-|Roscommon|82,07| |26|-|Longford|70,92
    5|-|Donegal|97,70| |16|-|Armagh|79,48| |27|-|Leitrim|67,43
    6|-|Kerry|97,66| |17|-|Louth|77,76| |28|-|Offaly|67,31
    7|-|Monaghan|92,82| |18|-|Westmeath|76,67| |29|-|Antrim|66,34
    8|-|Derry|92,16| |19|-|Wexford|76,33| |30|-|Waterford|63,49
    9|-|Kildare|89,27| |20|-|Tipperary|76,32| |31|-|London|60,54
    10|-|Meath|88,21| |21|-|Fermanagh|75,01| |32|-|Carlow|59,77
    11|-|Cavan|87,69| |22|-|Limerick|74,98| |33|-|New York|54,10


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    4 finals on this weekend, some changes in the rankings to be expected.

    Dublin's position at no. 1 will not be altered no matter what the outcome of the Div 1 final, but even a draw for Derry will take them above Monaghan's current position in the table.

    In Div 2, a Donegal win will propel them above Tyrone while Monaghan would drop below Derry's current position. If Donegal were to lose, they would fall below Kerry while Monaghan's position would remain unchanged (due to a large gap between them and the next higher ranked team, Kerry).

    Cavan can leap-frog Meath should they win the Div 3 final, while a loss would see them drop below Down. Roscommon could overtake Galway with a win while a loss for Roscommon would not affect their placement.

    Finally, in Division 4, a win for Tipp would see them jump 2 places to 18th without affecting Clare's overall ranking, while if Clare were to win, they would pass above Tipperary into 20th position.

    There might be a delay in updating the tables after the matches this weekend; my hard-drive gave up the ghost yesterday, so a new laptop is on the way.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    The biggest mover after the league finals was Tipperary who advanced 2 places in the rankings, while Donegal dropped one place following their 6 point loss to Monaghan. Meanwhile, Cavan also dropped a place in the wake of defeat to a Roscommon team who climb one place above their near neighbours Galway. The division 1 final result did not affect the respective rankings of either Dublin or Derry.

    I have managed to locate more results stretching back to 1994 and I have incorporated these into a larger database. The inclusion of these earlier results has slightly affected the current rankings, moreso in terms of overall points than in positioning (i.e. there is a greater spread between top and bottom teams – which is to be expected as in the points exchange system, lower ranked teams will "give up" points to higher ranked teams and this will become more apparent over time). The inclusion of these results also poses questions of the factors chosen in the current system as Kerry dominate from 2002 to 2012, denying no. 1 spot to all other All-Ireland winners in between with the exception of Cork. I will re-look at this and modify the factors (championship weighting, ranking spread and scoring difference) appropriately before starting the ranking for the 2014 championship (which has already begun with Mayo's win over NY, which will have no effect on the rankings). In any case, it is better that this problem is addressed now rather than in the future.

    BTW, if anyone has links/sources of complete championship and league results from the early 1990s or earlier, I'd be very grateful to have access to them.

    #|Δ|Team|Ranking points
    1|-|Dublin|107,64
    2|-|Mayo|101,04
    3|-|Cork|100,63
    4|-|Tyrone|98,11
    5||Kerry|97,66
    6||Donegal|95,83
    7|-|Monaghan|94,69
    8|-|Derry|91,79
    9|-|Kildare|89,27
    10|-|Meath|88,21
    11||Down|87,40
    12||Cavan|86,41
    13|-|Laois|84,33
    14||Roscommon|83,35
    15||Galway|82,77
    16|-|Armagh|79,48
    17|-|Louth|77,76
    18|▲▲|Tipperary|77,21
    19||Westmeath|76,67
    20||Wexford|76,33
    21|-|Fermanagh|75,01
    22|-|Limerick|74,98
    23|-|Clare|73,24
    24|-|Sligo|71,79
    25|-|Wicklow|71,07
    26|-|Longford|70,92
    27|-|Leitrim|67,43
    28|-|Offaly|67,31
    29|-|Antrim|66,34
    30|-|Waterford|63,49
    31|-|London|60,54
    32|-|Carlow|59,77
    33|-|New York|54,10


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    As I mentioned before, I managed to find results dating back to May 1994. After adding these, there were some discrepancies starting to creep into the system and I've tried to address these.

    I think it's fair to say that since 2009 or so, teams have been taking the league more seriously. Also the introduction of the back-door system in 2001 may have had an effect on the way teams viewed the championship. I've been playing around with the results of this for the last while trying to get a better correlation between expected and actual results but the variation is huge. In any case, I've changed the model so that pre-2008, championship wins are worth three times a win in the league while from 2008 on, the ratio is 2. I've also increased to 6 pts the score difference to determine a "good" win. This reduces the variation slightly, moreso for championship games, with 40% of the variance being explained by home advantage, winning margin and previous rating.

    I've been doing a bit of background reading on it and the general consensus is that there are 2 types of rating systems - those that reflect a team's overall position relative to the teams around it or those that attempt to predict future results. It appears that the system I'm using (based on the IRB system) is much better for the former rather than the latter. I'll post later today with expected outcomes from this weekend's games.

    Below is the updated table from which I will start the 2014 championship (the ratings difference between Mayo and NY meant that no points were exchanged following Mayo's expected win). There are some minor reorderings from the table above at the end of the league but these were mainly between teams who were rated very closely to each other.

    I've also set up a wikipedia page which sums up everything so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football_rankings

    #|Δ|Team|Ranking points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|97,52
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4|-|Tyrone|95,40
    5|-|Kerry|94,86
    6|-|Monaghan|92,82
    7|-|Donegal|92,00
    8|-|Derry|91,30
    9|-|Kildare|87,80
    10|-|Down|86,20
    11|-|Meath|86,73
    12|-|Cavan|85,41
    13|-|Roscommon|83,38
    14|-|Laois|83,59
    15|-|Galway|82,62
    16|-|Armagh|80,00
    17|-|Louth|78,48
    18|-|Tipperary|78,19
    19|-|Westmeath|77,47
    20|-|Fermanagh|76,31
    21|-|Wexford|76,27
    22|-|Limerick|75,15
    23|-|Clare|74,27
    24|-|Sligo|73,05
    25|-|Wicklow|72,67
    26|-|Longford|72,14
    27|-|Offaly|70,01
    28|-|Leitrim|69,66
    29|-|Antrim|68,66
    30|-|Waterford|65,29
    31|-|London|64,21
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Weekend 17th/18th May

    The Championship kicks off properly this weekend with 5 games to look forward to. I thought I might try a prediction based on the ranking system developed above.

    A word of warning to would-be gamblers – the ranking system is based on form to present and is not an indicator of future form. If all teams were to remain stagnant where they are now, then we could have a lot of confidence in the use of the rankings to predict results, but that is not the case. Teams improve and disimprove over the course of time. There is also a large variation between expected and actual results and I'll try to make this point by including 90% confidence intervals for each prediction (that is to say, based on the results observed to date, we could be 90% confident (i.e. 9 times out of 10), that the actual result will be somewhere between the two intervals).

    Westmeath (77,47) vs Louth (78,48) - With Westmeath at home, their rating goes up to 80,47, which makes them slight favourites. The ratings predicts a Westmeath win by 1 point, with a range from a 14 point loss to a 16 point win.

    Roscommon (83,88) vs Leitrim (69,66) - A 9 point win for Roscommon, with a range from – 6 to +23.

    Wicklow (72,67) vs Laois (83,59) - A 4 point win for Laois, with a range from -10 to +19.

    Longford (72,14) vs Offaly (70,01) – A 3 point win for Longford, with a range from -12 to +18

    Tyrone (95,40) vs Down (86,20) – A 6 point win for Tyrone, with a range from -9 to +21


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Down and Longford were the 2 big winners over the weekend, each moving up 2 places in the rankings, while Westmeath dropped 2 places. In terms of rating point changes, the Louth-Westmeath game resulted in the highest point exchange, 2.26 points.

    (Roscommon and Laois were in the incorrect order in the table above.)

    #|Δ|Team|Ranking points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|97,52
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4||Kerry|94,86
    5||Tyrone|93,78
    6|-|Monaghan|92,82
    7|-|Donegal|92,00
    8|-|Derry|91,30
    9|▲▲|Down|87,82
    10||Kildare|87,80
    11||Meath|86,73
    12|-|Cavan|85,41
    13|-|Laois|85,00
    14|-|Roscommon|83,38
    15|-|Galway|82,62
    16||Louth|80,74
    17||Armagh|80,00
    18|-|Tipperary|78,19
    19||Fermanagh|76,31
    20||Wexford|76,27
    21|▼▼|Westmeath|75,21
    22|-|Limerick|75,15
    23|-|Clare|74,27
    24|▲▲|Longford|73,46
    25||Sligo|73,05
    26||Wicklow|71,26
    28||Leitrim|69,66
    27||Offaly|68,69
    29|-|Antrim|68,66
    30|-|Waterford|65,29
    31|-|London|64,21
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Preview of this weekend's games:

    Down (87,82) vs Tyrone (93,78)

    Given that Down are now at home, their chances of winning are increased. An analysis of their home form in the championship indicates that they normally overcome the favourites, but Tyrone are still ~3 ranking points ahead of them. Prediction based on ratings = draw or 1 point win for Down

    Derry (91,30) vs Donegal (92,00)

    Derry are favourites for this with the bookies in spite of Donegal's often-mentioned determination to repeat the glories of 2012 and despite Derry's notorious variability in form. The ratings side with Derry also, and adding in their home form (wildly erratic as it is), points to a 4 point win for the home side.

    London (64,21) vs Galway (82,62)

    London have a relatively consistent form at home and rarely lose heavily. Galway to win by 6 points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    Basing my knowledge on handicapping of horses and using the points as pounds.Dublin are a stone at least 14 points above the next best Mayo with Cork 1point behind Mayo.The rest are also rans.In applying the same principle to the league order and understanding unlucky in running tag.Div 1 is Group Standard Div 2 is top handicapping standard Div 3 is poor handicapping standard and Div 4 Is selling standard.You cannot equate Div 4 to Div 3 with the same principle of certainty as is been predicted.If equating league form Div 1 teams have to operate at a higher standard of points equation.If equating the unlucky in running tag Cavan should be further ahead of Roscommon based on the amount of clear chances wasted in the play off final.


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    sting60 wrote: »
    Basing my knowledge on handicapping of horses and using the points as pounds.Dublin are a stone at least 14 points above the next best Mayo with Cork 1point behind Mayo.The rest are also rans.In applying the same principle to the league order and understanding unlucky in running tag.Div 1 is Group Standard Div 2 is top handicapping standard Div 3 is poor handicapping standard and Div 4 Is selling standard.You cannot equate Div 4 to Div 3 with the same principle of certainty as is been predicted.If equating league form Div 1 teams have to operate at a higher standard of points equation.If equating the unlucky in running tag Cavan should be further ahead of Roscommon based on the amount of clear chances wasted in the play off final.

    I understand where you are coming from, but in my opinion, the system already takes into account the equating of teams in the League. For example, a team in Div 3 will be surround by other Div 3 grade teams, and therefore will only move up or down the table based on their results against these similarly ranked teams. The championship then "pegs" the teams based on results in what is a semi-open competition.

    Also, in more general terms, there is a huge difference between how horse racing and GAA football competitions are conducted. Football is one-against-one, whereas horse racing is a field of horses. I'm not familiar with horse racing, but would a selling standard horse be put in a one-to-one race with a Group Standard horse? And sometimes win?


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Tyrone and Donegal each moved up a place in the rankings after this weekend's games. Down and Derry were the 2 big losers in terms of rating points, with Down dropping 2 ranking places, but Derry's ranking placement was unaffected. Galway's win over London did not result in any point exchange as the rating point difference between the teams was too large (>15).

    #|Δ|Team|Rating points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|97,52
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4||Tyrone|96,18
    5||Kerry|94,86
    6||Donegal|94,30
    7||Monaghan|92,82
    8|-|Derry|89,01
    9||Kildare|87,80
    10||Meath|86,73
    11|▼▼|Down|85,42
    12|-|Cavan|85,41
    13|-|Laois|85,00
    14|-|Roscommon|83,38
    15|-|Galway|82,62
    16|-|Louth|80,74
    17|-|Armagh|80,00
    18|-|Tipperary|78,19
    19|-|Fermanagh|76,31
    20|-|Wexford|76,27
    21|-|Westmeath|75,21
    22|-|Limerick|75,15
    23|-|Clare|74,27
    24|-|Longford|73,46
    25|-|Sligo|73,05
    26|-|Wicklow|71,26
    28|-|Leitrim|69,66
    27|-|Offaly|68,69
    29|-|Antrim|68,66
    30|-|Waterford|65,29
    31|-|London|64,21
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    laoisman11 wrote: »
    I understand where you are coming from, but in my opinion, the system already takes into account the equating of teams in the League. For example, a team in Div 3 will be surround by other Div 3 grade teams, and therefore will only move up or down the table based on their results against these similarly ranked teams. The championship then "pegs" the teams based on results in what is a semi-open competition.

    Also, in more general terms, there is a huge difference between how horse racing and GAA football competitions are conducted. Football is one-against-one, whereas horse racing is a field of horses. I'm not familiar with horse racing, but would a selling standard horse be put in a one-to-one race with a Group Standard horse? And sometimes win?
    I assume you are basing everything on equations and the same principles apply in equal numbers to racing based on rational.My take would be as follows .Div1 in League 100pts per win and a valuation for points defeat and a deduction of value for wins as you go down the leagues.The final totals will really determine which teams are in with a serious shout of lifting Sam.Another serious factor that needs understanding are variables.Dublin play at home all the time,no traveling for Dublin players to training,all work/study in the county,no need to leave the country and very well financed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    sting60 wrote: »
    I assume you are basing everything on equations and the same principles apply in equal numbers to racing based on rational.My take would be as follows .Div1 in League 100pts per win and a valuation for points defeat and a deduction of value for wins as you go down the leagues.The final totals will really determine which teams are in with a serious shout of lifting Sam.Another serious factor that needs understanding are variables.Dublin play at home all the time,no traveling for Dublin players to training,all work/study in the county,no need to leave the country and very well financed.

    Yep, all based on equations and all described here in more detail.

    There are many different ways to do a ranking system but the IRB-based system appears to be one of the fairest that I have found. Ranking systems which are more focused on predicting results would take into account travelling times, recent big wins/losses etc, but that is not the aim of this particular ranking system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Two games up for decision this weekend.

    Limerick (75.15) vs Tipperary (78.18)

    Adding 3 rating points to Limerick's rating to take into account home advantage means that these teams are almost identical in the ratings, so a draw is predicted. Limerick did play in a higher division than Tipp this year and this may give them a further edge. Also, Limerick have a very consistent home form, i.e. their results at home are closely linked to the rating difference between themselves and the team they are playing.

    Fermanagh (76.31) vs Antrim (68.66)

    Fermanagh sit well above Antrim in terms of rating points and also in terms of ranking (19th vs 29th). This, combined with home advantage, results in a predicted Fermanagh win by 5 points. However, Fermanagh's home form is even more erratic than that of Derry's (didn't think that was possible!) so the confidence around this prediction is quite low.


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Antrim's shock win in Brewster Park gained them 3,42 rating points and saw them move up 3 places in the rankings to 26th while Fermanagh dropped 5 places to 24th. Tipperary's win over Limerick away from home means that they move up 2 places to 16th with Limerick dropping three places to 25th.

    #|Δ|Team|Rating points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|97,52
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4|-|Tyrone|96,18
    5|-|Kerry|94,86
    6|-|Donegal|94,30
    7|-|Monaghan|92,82
    8|-|Derry|89,01
    9|-|Kildare|87,80
    10|-|Meath|86,73
    11|-|Down|85,42
    12|-|Cavan|85,41
    13|-|Laois|85,00
    14|-|Roscommon|83,38
    15|-|Galway|82,62
    16|▲▲|Tipperary|81,19
    17||Louth|80,74
    18||Armagh|80,00
    19||Wexford|76,27
    20||Westmeath|75,21
    21|▲▲|Clare|74,27
    22|▲▲|Longford|73,46
    23|▲▲|Sligo|73,05
    24|▼▼▼▼▼|Fermanagh|72,89
    25|▼▼▼|Limerick|72,15
    26|▲▲▲|Antrim|72,08
    27||Wicklow|71,26
    28||Leitrim|69,66
    29||Offaly|68,69
    30|-|Waterford|65,29
    31|-|London|64,21
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    A big weekend for football with 6 games up for decision.

    Longford (73.46) v Wexford (76.27)

    *Based on the rating points, this should be a tight game with little to separate the sides. Wexford did have a slightly better league although Longford already have a good win under their belts. A one point win for Longford is predicted.

    Clare (74.27) v Waterford (65.29)

    *Using the overall trend between rating point difference and winning margin, Clare are expected to win this game by 5 points. League form would also point to this, but Clare's home form is poor, even excluding occasional big beatings. Clare by 3.

    Roscommon (83.38) v Mayo (97.52)

    *Div 3 champions meet the All-Ireland finalists from the last 2 years. Roscommon have being showing well of late, and both have had a first round experience, each hitting 18 points, with a few goals thrown in. The ratings predict a Mayo win by 4 points.

    Louth (80.74) v Kildare (87.80)

    *Louth have a game under their belt and did well to overcome Westmeath. The League was not kind to either team, with relegation from Divisions 2 and 1 respectively. Kildare were knocking over scores for fun in the league however, and a repeat of that here should see them through. Kildare by 2.

    Dublin (102.23) v Laois (85.00)

    *A big difference in rating points between these teams. Laois finished mid-table in Division 2 without ever setting the world on fire. Dublin, on the other hand, continue to amass trophies. The ranking predicts a 12 point win for Dublin, which also happens to be the handicap offered by PaddyPower.

    Armagh (80.00) v Cavan (85.41)

    *Armagh and Cavan exchange divisions after this year's league, and while Armagh's relegation was a close-fought affair, Cavan's promotion was clear cut. Cavan are slightly ahead in the rankings, and while this would normally translate to a 1 point win for Cavan, Armagh's home advantage is greater than most teams. Therefore, a 2 point win for Armagh is predicted.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Armagh were the major movers after this weekend's games gaining 3.48 rating points and moving up 5 places in the rankings. Cavan, meanwhile, drop 4 places. Although Wexford picked up 2.02 rating points, their ranking position remains unchanged, while Longford drop 4 places. Kildare's win over Louth sees the former move up one ranking place and the latter drop one ranking place. Mayo make a slight gain in rating points (0.52) with their win over Roscommon while no points were exchanged in the Dublin-Laois game. Clare drop 2 places following their draw with Waterford.

    Finally, both Sligo and Fermanagh, despite not having played this weekend, jump up 2 places each due to the points dropped by the teams directly above them (Clare and Longford).

    #|Δ|Team|Rating points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|98,04
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4|-|Tyrone|96,18
    5|-|Kerry|94,86
    6|-|Donegal|94,30
    7|-|Monaghan|92,82
    8||Kildare|89,39
    9||Derry|89,01
    10|-|Meath|86,73
    11|-|Down|85,42
    12||Laois|85,00
    13|▲▲▲▲▲|Armagh|83,48
    14|-|Roscommon|82,86
    15|-|Galway|82,62
    16|▼▼▼▼|Cavan|81,93
    17||Tipperary|81,19
    18||Louth|79,15
    19|-|Wexford|78,29
    20|-|Westmeath|75,21
    21|▲▲|Sligo|73,05
    22|▲▲|Fermanagh|72,89
    23|▼▼|Clare|72,67
    24||Limerick|72,15
    25||Antrim|72,08
    26|▼▼▼▼|Longford|71,44
    27|-|Wicklow|71,26
    28|-|Leitrim|69,66
    29|-|Offaly|68,69
    30|-|Waterford|66,89
    31|-|London|64,21
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Huge rise for Armagh... be interesting to see how good they really are the next day. Was it a one-off thing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Three games up this weekend:

    Monaghan (92,82) v Tyrone (96,18)

    The last of the Ulster quarter-finals and the entry of the Ulster champions. Having home advantage almost gives Monaghan parity to Tyrone's rating points, indicating that there will be a large point exchange no matter what the result of the game. In general, a draw would be predicted, but a closer look at Monaghan's home form in the Championship shows that they do not perform particularly well when they are slight favourites. So Tyrone by 1.

    Carlow (62,89) v Meath (86,73)

    A rating gap of 20,84 separates these teams, which would normally point to an 8 point win for Meath. Nevertheless, Carlow manage to limit the extent of their losses at home to vastly superior opposition, and may do so again here. Meath by 5.

    Waterford (66,89) v Clare (72,67)

    Waterford having home advantage should bring them much closer to Clare, but will it be close enough? Did they miss the boat last weekend? Using the overall values for the Championship, a draw is predicted again, but looking deeper, Waterford's home advantage does not appear to be as strong as it is for other teams. A 3 point win for Clare.

    Just to show how I arrive at the conclusions for home teams, I'll paste in below the graph of Waterford's home form. It is a neat example as their results are closely linked to rating point differences before a game. Using the the function of the line of best fit, I can then calculate an estimate of the future result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Huge rise for Armagh... be interesting to see how good they really are the next day. Was it a one-off thing?

    I wonder if there will be suspensions arising out of last Sunday's incident.


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Following their win over Tyrone, Monaghan gain 2.04 ranking points, move up 2 places in the rankings and now hold identical rating points to Kerry. Clare reverse their drop in the rankings to regain the position they held prior to drawing with Waterford. Waterford's ranking, meanwhile, remains unchanged. The Meath-Carlow game did not result in any rating points exchange as the gap between the teams is greater than the cut-off (15 rating points).

    #|Δ|Team|Rating points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|98,04
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4||Kerry|94,86
    5|▲▲|Monaghan|94,86
    6|-|Donegal|94,30
    7|▼▼▼|Tyrone|94,14
    8|-|Kildare|89,39
    9|-|Derry|89,01
    10|-|Meath|86,73
    11|-|Down|85,42
    12|-|Laois|85,00
    13|-|Armagh|83,48
    14|-|Roscommon|82,86
    15|-|Galway|82,62
    16|-|Cavan|81,93
    17|-|Tipperary|81,19
    18|-|Louth|79,15
    19|-|Wexford|78,29
    20|-|Westmeath|75,21
    21|▲▲|Clare|75,10
    22||Sligo|73,05
    23||Fermanagh|72,89
    24|-|Limerick|72,15
    25|-|Antrim|72,08
    26|-|Longford|71,44
    27|-|Wicklow|71,26
    28|-|Leitrim|69,66
    29|-|Offaly|68,69
    30|-|Waterford|64,46
    31|-|London|64,21
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    This is likely to be one of the busiest weekend's in the championship calender with 8 matches. However, in 7 of the 8 matches, there is a large difference in rating points, so that if the favourites do come through, there will be little changes to the rankings. The one game which is sure to result in some changes, however, is the Wicklow – Offaly game.

    Sligo (73,05) v Galway (82,62)
    * Normally Galway should win this by 2, but Sligo's home form is impressive (apart from a heavy loss in 2000). Sligo by 1.

    Cork (97,45) v Tipperary (81,19)
    *Cork by 9

    Limerick (72,15) v London (64,21)
    *Limerick by 5

    Laois (85,00) v Fermanagh (72,89)
    *Laois by 7 (although I wouldn't be putting any money on that!)

    Derry (89,01) v Longford (71,44)
    *Derry by 9 (their home form is widely erratic, as noted earlier)

    Wicklow (71,26) v Offaly (68,69)
    *Wicklow by 4

    Clare (75,1) v Kerry (94,86)
    *Following the ranking system, Kerry should win by 4. Other factors may have an influence on this result, however (5 débutantes for Kerry, Clare have 2 games under their belts).

    Donegal (94,3) v Antrim (72,08)
    *Donegal by 8


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    * Longford's shock win gains them 4 rating points and results in them moving up 6 places in the rankings, with Derry dropping 2 places.
    * Both Galway and Wicklow move up 2 places following their wins over Sligo and Offaly, respectively.
    * Sligo could feel hard done by, as their loss of 1.12 rating points, combined with the upwards movements of Wicklow and Longford, saw Sligo drop 5 places.
    * No rating points were exchanged in the Clare-Kerry, Donegal-Antrim, Cork-Tipperary nor Laois-Fermanagh games.

    #|Δ|Team|Rating points
    1|-|Dublin|102,23
    2|-|Mayo|98,04
    3|-|Cork|97,45
    4|-|Kerry|94,86
    5|-|Monaghan|94,86
    6|-|Donegal|94,30
    7|-|Tyrone|94,14
    8|-|Kildare|89,39
    9||Meath|86,73
    10||Down|85,42
    11|▼▼|Derry|85,01
    12|-|Laois|85,00
    13|▲▲|Galway|83,74
    14||Armagh|83,48
    15||Roscommon|82,86
    16|-|Cavan|81,93
    17|-|Tipperary|81,19
    18|-|Louth|79,15
    19|-|Wexford|78,29
    20|▲▲▲▲▲▲|Longford|75,44
    21||Westmeath|75,21
    22||Clare|75,10
    23|-|Fermanagh|72,89
    24|-|Limerick|72,69
    25|▲▲|Wicklow|72.52
    26||Antrim|72,08
    27|▼▼▼▼▼|Sligo|71,93
    28|-|Leitrim|69,66
    29|-|Offaly|67,43
    30|-|Waterford|64,46
    31|-|London|63.67
    32|-|Carlow|62,89
    33|-|New York|58,25


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    7 games up this weekend............

    Monaghan (94,86) v Armagh (83,48)
    * Monaghan should win this by 7 points but their home form is not particularly impressive, so a 3 point win is predicted.

    Cavan (81,93) v Westmeath (75,21)
    * If Monaghan's home form was poor, Cavan's is even worse. Normally, a team with their rating points would be expected to win this by 5, but a one point win is more likely.

    Tyrone (94,14) v Louth (79,15)
    * In my records dating back to 1994, Tyrone have never played a home championship game where they were not more highly ranked than their opponent. However, they rarely inflict big winning margins, and therefore should win by 5.

    Carlow (62,89) v Waterford (64,46)
    * Despite home advantage increasing their rating points for this encounter, Carlow are unlikely to come through here. Waterford by 4.

    Dublin (102,23) v Wexford (78,29)
    * With Dublin's home form taken into account, they are predicted to win this game by the unlikely margin of 17 points.

    Kildare (89,39) v Meath (86,73)
    * This is going to be a very tight game between 2 similarly rated teams who both do well away from home. Kildare by 1.

    Down (85,42) v Leitrim (69,66)
    * Down by 6


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 mongie2k


    Monaghans home form not impressive??????????????
    There unbeaten in 15 games at clones


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    mongie2k wrote: »
    Monaghans home form not impressive??????????????
    There unbeaten in 15 games at clones

    I'll take your word on their winning streak but when I said that their home form was not impressive, I was referring to their expected winning margin.

    This weekend's game was a good example of this - Monaghan were superior to Armagh by 14.38 rating points (11.38 difference + 3 for home advantage). On average, a team with this superiority would win by 7 points, but taking into account Monaghan's previous home performances (where they won by less than expected), the rating system predicted a 3 point win. By drawing the game, Monaghan actually underperformed on their normal level of underperformance.


Advertisement