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Secondary School Teaching

  • 01-02-2020 10:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭


    I'm a first year student in NUI Galway studying French and Irish. I am considering becoming a teacher in these two subjects. I have become aware that there is a new bachelor of Education degree in Languages starting in UL in September. I'm wondering is it better financially to drop out of this course and move to the B ed course in September. Also what are my job prospects like of becoming a permanent teacher in these subjects. Is the pay for new teachers enough to have a relatively comfortable life ? Also does anyone know if I can still do other masters programmes like translation and interpreting ? Will 60 credits per language be enough? I have been giving grinds since September and I have enjoyed them. I think teaching could be an option for me. Thank You.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Personally, I’d be inclined to do the degree and then the PME, rather than a teaching-specific course from the start, but that might just be me being old fashioned. I would think though that the stand alone degree would open up more non-teaching contacts, in case you decide that teaching isn’t for you, at some point. I imagine the actual qualification will be more or less equivalent to a degree in Irish and French but if it’s aimed at teaching specifically, then the contacts you make are likely to be largely education related, I would think.

    The pay is alright, depending on the hours you actually manage to get. You won’t be rich, but most new graduates aren’t anyway. Of course with teaching, you’ll never be rich but it’ll probably be pretty secure in the long run.

    I saw something lately that put both Irish and French in the top ten (top five, I think, actually) most in demand subjects in terms of difficulty getting teachers. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll get a full time contract straight out of the gate, or even a full year’s contract, but it’s likely you’ll have work anyway.
    That could change by the time you graduate though, and if Fine Gael get another term in government, you know they’ll keep working to reduce the amount and level of Irish being taught in our schools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Personally, I’d be inclined to do the degree and then the PME, rather than a teaching-specific course from the start, but that might just be me being old fashioned. I would think though that the stand alone degree would open up more non-teaching contacts, in case you decide that teaching isn’t for you, at some point. I imagine the actual qualification will be more or less equivalent to a degree in Irish and French but if it’s aimed at teaching specifically, then the contacts you make are likely to be largely education related, I would think.

    The pay is alright, depending on the hours you actually manage to get. You won’t be rich, but most new graduates aren’t anyway. Of course with teaching, you’ll never be rich but it’ll probably be pretty secure in the long run.

    I saw something lately that put both Irish and French in the top ten (top five, I think, actually) most in demand subjects in terms of difficulty getting teachers. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll get a full time contract straight out of the gate, or even a full year’s contract, but it’s likely you’ll have work anyway.
    That could change by the time you graduate though, and if Fine Gael get another term in government, you know they’ll keep working to reduce the amount and level of Irish being taught in our schools.

    If that is the case would I be better doing Spanish with French since Spanish is in the top five also. How long do you think it would take for me to get a full time job ?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Yikes, no not Spanish.

    Irish is taken in every single school in the country, by a huge majority of students. Spanish is taken by 8000 at most at LC and 13000 at JC.

    You will severely limit yourself for jobs with Spanish and French. Irish is your key one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    spurious wrote: »
    Yikes, no not Spanish.

    Irish is taken in every single school in the country, by a huge majority of students. Spanish is taken by 8000 at most at LC and 13000 at JC.

    You will severely limit yourself for jobs with Spanish and French. Irish is your key one.

    Is there a danger of irish


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    spurious wrote: »
    Yikes, no not Spanish.

    Irish is taken in every single school in the country, by a huge majority of students. Spanish is taken by 8000 at most at LC and 13000 at JC.

    You will severely limit yourself for jobs with Spanish and French. Irish is your key one.
    Is there a danger of Irish being removed as a compulsory subject though?


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Mandf wrote: »
    Is there a danger of Irish being removed as a compulsory subject though?

    I would very much doubt it.
    Besides, if you keep with the French and Irish course, you open yourself up to many jobs other than the 'joys' of teaching.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Mandf wrote: »
    I'm a first year student in NUI Galway studying French and Irish. I am considering becoming a teacher in these two subjects. I have become aware that there is a new bachelor of Education degree in Languages starting in UL in September. I'm wondering is it better financially to drop out of this course and move to the B ed course in September.

    Definitely not. If you get your degree, you can register with the Teaching Council so you could pick up some subbing work during your PME. You need a level 8 degree to register and this is not possible for the UL course. Also you would be 'wasting' a year by dropping out and starting again. You would probably be studying the same material anyway.
    Mandf wrote: »
    Also what are my job prospects like of becoming a permanent teacher in these subjects.

    It will take a while but you will get there - language teachers are always in demand so you may get lucky in your first year. Even if you do not get your own hours, you will always have work e.g. maternity/sick leaves etc.
    Mandf wrote: »
    Is the pay for new teachers enough to have a relatively comfortable life ?

    You'll never be a millionaire but you will have a comfortable life. Salary scale can be found here: https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    Bear in mind that this scale is assuming you have a full 22 hour contract.

    Mandf wrote: »
    Also does anyone know if I can still do other masters programmes like translation and interpreting ?

    Yes another string to your bow - this can be work you do as you wish - weekends/summer etc.

    Mandf wrote: »
    Will 60 credits per language be enough?

    I don't know the number of credits but you will also have to study a prescribed list of texts/poetry etc. and a two month residency.

    Mandf wrote: »
    I have been giving grinds since September and I have enjoyed them. I think teaching could be an option for me. Thank You.

    Giving grinds is not the same as teaching a class of students who may or may not want to learn especially with your subjects.

    You could have a chat with the career service in NUIG - they're very good. There might also be careers days where you could talk to the Education department. Bonne chance!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭tuisginideach


    Definitely not. If you get your degree, you can register with the Teaching Council so you could pick up some subbing work during your PME. You need a level 8 degree to register and this is not possible for the UL course.


    Surely the new teaching degrees (as here and in DCU) are Level 8 - they avoid having to spend €12000+ on PMEs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Surely the new teaching degrees (as here and in DCU) are Level 8 - they avoid having to spend €12000+ on PMEs.

    Yes they are but the OP has started a degree if they finish it and do the PME, they can register to do subbing during teaching practice. This is not possible with concurrent degrees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭tuisginideach


    Ah yes, i see what you mean.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Mandf wrote: »
    Is there a danger of Irish being removed as a compulsory subject though?
    Not unless Fine Gael get back in. They wanted to do it two governments ago but they were relying on Labour’s support, and Labour were against it. They floated it a few times while they were in opposition too. It’ll happen if they ever get a majority government, or a coalition with a party with no backbone (or who just don’t care about the language). Probably safe this time around but next time, who knows.
    The Gaelcholáistí struggle to get teachers with the likes of French and German who can also teach through Irish though, so Irish with French is pretty safe, I’d say.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    I would give a big +1 for having Irish as a subject. Lots of work in it. I teach during the summers as well sometimes. Also get work doing the orals, and mock orals for schools. As has been said above being able to teach French or Spanish through Irish would be a big bonus.

    At the end of the day it's whatever you could see yourself teaching every day for years. I love the Irish language, but you have to remember you're teaching literature, to people who by and large don't want to be doing it. At least with French and Spanish there's a chance they've chosen to be in your class.

    And as has also been said, teaching grinds and teaching a whole class are two completely different things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    dory wrote: »
    I would give a big +1 for having Irish as a subject. Lots of work in it. I teach during the summers as well sometimes. Also get work doing the orals, and mock orals for schools. As has been said above being able to teach French or Spanish through Irish would be a big bonus.

    At the end of the day it's whatever you could see yourself teaching every day for years. I love the Irish language, but you have to remember you're teaching literature, to people who by and large don't want to be doing it. At least with French and Spanish there's a chance they've chosen to be in your class.

    And as has also been said, teaching grinds and teaching a whole class are two completely different things.
    How much would you get paid for a week of orals ? What teaching would you do in the summer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    Definitely not. If you get your degree, you can register with the Teaching Council so you could pick up some subbing work during your PME. You need a level 8 degree to register and this is not possible for the UL course. Also you would be 'wasting' a year by dropping out and starting again. You would probably be studying the same material anyway.



    It will take a while but you will get there - language teachers are always in demand so you may get lucky in your first year. Even if you do not get your own hours, you will always have work e.g. maternity/sick leaves etc.



    You'll never be a millionaire but you will have a comfortable life. Salary scale can be found here: https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    Bear in mind that this scale is assuming you have a full 22 hour contract.




    Yes another string to your bow - this can be work you do as you wish - weekends/summer etc.




    I don't know the number of credits but you will also have to study a prescribed list of texts/poetry etc. and a two month residency.




    Giving grinds is not the same as teaching a class of students who may or may not want to learn especially with your subjects.

    You could have a chat with the career service in NUIG - they're very good. There might also be careers days where you could talk to the Education department. Bonne chance!!

    Is there enough work around to do translation in french and Irish in the summer ? I want to do the bachelor of Education in Languages because it will save me an extra year of college so I could do a masters like interpreting or translation ? Would this be more beneficial than doing the pme?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,440 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I’m going to but I’m here so please excuse me.

    My daughter is looking at three courses.

    PE with maths
    PE with biology
    Geography and history.

    Is there any of these I should be worried about regarding employment potential down the line ? The letter would need a PME which she would plan on doing online while doing some work.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    Mandf wrote: »
    How much would you get paid for a week of orals ? What teaching would you do in the summer?

    Depends where you get sent. I think I got €700 or so for the week but about 450 or so of that was my overnight expenses. Very little was for the actual work (after tax). In the summer I sometimes teach Irish in the Gaeltacht. Can get €2500 or so for a three week course.
    Mandf wrote: »
    Is there enough work around to do translation in french and Irish in the summer ? I want to do the bachelor of Education in Languages because it will save me an extra year of college so I could do a masters like interpreting or translation ? Would this be more beneficial than doing the pme?

    I have no translation qualification but advertised online and got a fair bit of work. Not sure what the story is with French/ Spanish.
    _Brian wrote: »
    I’m going to but I’m here so please excuse me.

    My daughter is looking at three courses.

    PE with maths
    PE with biology
    Geography and history.

    Is there any of these I should be worried about regarding employment potential down the line ? The letter would need a PME which she would plan on doing online while doing some work.

    She should pick whichever she likes the best as she'll be teaching it a very long time. I'd love to teach Geography, but couldn't study it at the time. As you have them written above would be the order in which she'd be most employable (best at the top).


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    dory wrote: »
    Depends where you get sent. I think I got €700 or so for the week but about 450 or so of that was my overnight expenses. Very little was for the actual work (after tax). In the summer I sometimes teach Irish in the Gaeltacht. Can get €2500 or so for a three week course."

    Would mock orals have taken place outside of school hours and is it easy to get a job in the gaeltacht for the summer


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭Treppen


    _Brian wrote: »
    I’m going to but I’m here so please excuse me.

    My daughter is looking at three courses.

    PE with maths
    PE with biology
    Geography and history.

    Is there any of these I should be worried about regarding employment potential down the line ? The letter would need a PME which she would plan on doing online while doing some work.

    Geography and history are minority subjects.

    Maths in any school.

    Biology is common enough too.

    Why not just do maths and biology and get a job in industry, Friend in pharma interviewed someone just out of college last week who wouldn't consider anything less than 55k. Granted they had a masters but they've job offers coming out their ears.
    +Share bonus scheme
    + Company pay over 6% into pension
    +Health insurance paid for.
    +Occasional reward scheme of one4all vouchers

    Could you imagine if teachers ever got those perks :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 funkypumpkins


    Mandf wrote: »
    I'm a first year student in NUI Galway studying French and Irish. I am considering becoming a teacher in these two subjects. I have become aware that there is a new bachelor of Education degree in Languages starting in UL in September. I'm wondering is it better financially to drop out of this course and move to the B ed course in September. Also what are my job prospects like of becoming a permanent teacher in these subjects. Is the pay for new teachers enough to have a relatively comfortable life ? Also does anyone know if I can still do other masters programmes like translation and interpreting ? Will 60 credits per language be enough? I have been giving grinds since September and I have enjoyed them. I think teaching could be an option for me. Thank You.

    Fellow languages graduate and trained teacher here.

    Personally I'd stick with the languages degree you are doing. In the long run, it keeps your options open and you have more scope to study more interesting undergraduate modules.

    Re Teaching. I studied French and Spanish for undergrad in Dublin but I went to the UK to train as a secondary teacher because I got the £25k grant (no debt and nothing to lose if I did not like it and I always wanted to teach..) I am back in Ireland now and I find there is subbing work in Dublin however it is unclear as to permanency. Maybe the option is clear when I finish my post induction employment in England ( on a break). At the moment, I am working as unqualified until I get my UK qualifications recognised.

    Do explore by getting recent work experience. Life as a student in secondary school is very different to being a teacher and having some not all teens who are very happy to make your job more difficult by doing all sorts in lessons. Ultimately, like it or not, you are the adult and are responsible for it even if you can't control it.

    Working as a translator is very much dependent on whether you work self employed or get a training contract with a company, European Union. As self employed, you can wait a while to be paid and your popularity depends on your language combination. For the EU, it is competitive and could take a while. My friend at college has this insight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    Fellow languages graduate and trained teacher here.

    Personally I'd stick with the languages degree you are doing. In the long run, it keeps your options open and you have more scope to study more interesting undergraduate modules.

    Re Teaching. I studied French and Spanish for undergrad in Dublin but I went to the UK to train as a secondary teacher because I got the £25k grant (no debt and nothing to lose if I did not like it and I always wanted to teach..) I am back in Ireland now and I find there is subbing work in Dublin however it is unclear as to permanency. Maybe the option is clear when I finish my post induction employment in England ( on a break). At the moment, I am working as unqualified until I get my UK qualifications recognised.

    Do explore by getting recent work experience. Life as a student in secondary school is very different to being a teacher and having some not all teens who are very happy to make your job more difficult by doing all sorts in lessons. Ultimately, like it or not, you are the adult and are responsible for it even if you can't control it.

    Working as a translator is very much dependent on whether you work self employed or get a training contract with a company, European Union. As self employed, you can wait a while to be paid and your popularity depends on your language combination. For the EU, it is competitive and could take a while. My friend at college has this insight.
    Could you tell me what are the options apart from translation and what you have to do to get into the EU ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 41 funkypumpkins


    Mandf wrote: »
    Could you tell me what are the options apart from translation and what you have to do to get into the EU ?

    I once heard the lines, "languages are like a sauce, they are not much on their own but with something else, they can be a great combination"

    I have worked in teaching of my languages and TEFL; otherwise, I have directly worked in call centres using customer service. French is a great language to have but call centre work is mentally draining when it is complaints and you need to resolve in your foreign language.

    EU competitions internships needed to be googled. A Europa.eu type link can inform you. A MA in interpretation or translation is helpful to set you from competition


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Mandf


    I once heard the lines, "languages are like a sauce, they are not much on their own but with something else, they can be a great combination"

    I have worked in teaching of my languages and TEFL; otherwise, I have directly worked in call centres using customer service. French is a great language to have but call centre work is mentally draining when it is complaints and you need to resolve in your foreign language.

    EU competitions internships needed to be googled. A Europa.eu type link can inform you. A MA in interpretation or translation is helpful to set you from competition

    What would be a good combination with languages apart from commerce. It never worked out for me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭Snapgal


    dory wrote: »
    I would give a big +1 for having Irish as a subject. Lots of work in it. I teach during the summers as well sometimes. Also get work doing the orals, and mock orals for schools. As has been said above being able to teach French or Spanish through Irish would be a big bonus.

    At the end of the day it's whatever you could see yourself teaching every day for years. I love the Irish language, but you have to remember you're teaching literature, to people who by and large don't want to be doing it. At least with French and Spanish there's a chance they've chosen to be in your class.

    And as has also been said, teaching grinds and teaching a whole class are two completely different things.

    Depends what part of the country you in. Nearly 20 years experience of teaching Irish and two other MFL subjects - moved closer home to Galway after leaving a CID job nearly 5 years ago - nowhere near CID. Teaching Irish especially to pass classes not an easy job.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    Mandf wrote: »
    Would mock orals have taken place outside of school hours and is it easy to get a job in the gaeltacht for the summer

    Yes to the first question, but I wouldn't bank on getting that work. Lots of schools don't hire outside teachers do orals, and the ones that do just hire people they know. So it's not like you can plan to apply for that work.

    And yes, very easy to get work in the Gaeltacht, but you generally feel too old for that pretty quick. I did it in my early 30s and was the oldest there by a mile.


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