Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Western Rail Corridor

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Why would Tuam-Galway involve reversing en route as the junction with the Tuam line faces the Galway direction?

    Well put it this way,

    IE are not going to run a separate train between Tuam/Galway, you could never justify the financials for such a service when you are working from a very low volume of potential customers. Just like they will not do Limerick/Tuam. All trains will be via Athenry like it or not.
    ZERO marketing, ZERO Jamie.
    It actually amazing numbers are as high as they are considering.

    It shouldn't need marketing. Numbers are reasonable well but it's still just around 40 passengers per day across typically 10 trains.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,061 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I assumed, if the WRC ever does re-open, that services will be Ballina to GY, and that the other Mayo service would be Westport to Dublin.

    These would cross in Claremorris, allowing transfers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭metrovick001


    Numbers are reasonable well but it's still just around 40 passengers per day - ummm, ok. I thought a few more skulls might make things a little more convincing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Geuze wrote: »
    I assumed, if the WRC ever does re-open, that services will be Ballina to GY, and that the other Mayo service would be Westport to Dublin.

    These would cross in Claremorris, allowing transfers.

    good theory but bear in mind they took off another service to find the resources to re-open Ennis to Athenry,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Well put it this way,

    IE are not going to run a separate train between Tuam/Galway, you could never justify the financials for such a service when you are working from a very low volume of potential customers. Just like they will not do Limerick/Tuam. All trains will be via Athenry like it or not.



    It shouldn't need marketing. Numbers are reasonable well but it's still just around 40 passengers per day across typically 10 trains.

    When proved wrong, bluster!!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    all trains would be via Athenry, that doesn't involve a reversal but it will , I suspect, entail a change.

    Hopefully it would be timetabled to connect to a Dublin or Limerick train, probably too much to hope the signalling will be changed to eliminate a wait by running into the opposite platform


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Isambard wrote: »
    good theory but bear in mind they took off another service to find the resources to re-open Ennis to Athenry,


    What service was taken off to re-open Ennis/Athenry. If you're referring to Waterford/Rosslare the little saved by that wouldn't have gone far.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    What service was taken off to re-open Ennis/Athenry. If you're referring to Waterford/Rosslare the little saved by that wouldn't have gone far.

    the rolling stock?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    When proved wrong, bluster!!

    I won't be proved wrong...
    What service was taken off to re-open Ennis/Athenry. If you're referring to Waterford/Rosslare the little saved by that wouldn't have gone far.

    The point is closing a labour intensive loss making line and opening a new line with automated signalling, crossings etc and it still loses millions more per year than Waterford-Rosslare did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,061 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Isambard wrote: »
    all trains would be via Athenry, that doesn't involve a reversal but it will , I suspect, entail a change.

    Hopefully it would be timetabled to connect to a Dublin or Limerick train, probably too much to hope the signalling will be changed to eliminate a wait by running into the opposite platform

    If the WRC is ever re-opened, the GY to Athenry should be re-doubled first, before the WRC is re-opened.

    Nobody travelling from Mayo should have to change in Athenry, all trains from Ballina/Claremorris/Tuam run through to GY.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Geuze wrote: »
    If the WRC is ever re-opened, the GY to Athenry should be re-doubled first, before the WRC is re-opened.

    Nobody travelling from Mayo should have to change in Athenry, all trains from Ballina/Claremorris/Tuam run through to GY.

    they are only vaguely discussing Tuam to Athenry currently . There's no likelihood of Tuam to Claremorris being considered even in the medium term. No point worrying about passengers from Mayo having to change at this time..


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    The junior minister for a greenway along the rest of the WRC with his fantastic statistics must be pleasantly happy with the reuse of his incredibly inaccurate statistic of just under 40 people a day using the WRC at present. Amazing how one persons misuse of a statistic can be reused over and over on every forum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    The junior minister for a greenway along the rest of the WRC with his fantastic statistics must be pleasantly happy with the reuse of his incredibly inaccurate statistic of just under 40 people a day using the WRC at present. Amazing how one persons misuse of a statistic can be reused over and over on every forum.

    Prove its inaccurate as if you do the stats between Ennis and Athenry and you will come up with the same figure. Including Ennis/Limerick and Athenry/Galway is just a way to make the line look like top its doing well. Those passengers would exist without WRC opening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Prove its inaccurate as if you do the stats between Ennis and Athenry and you will come up with the same figure. Including Ennis/Limerick and Athenry/Galway is just a way to make the line look like top its doing well. Those passengers would exist without WRC opening.

    I don't need to prove anything because I'm not stating a figure, he did and was wrong, other followers of his did on here and are wrong also. I have reviewed the figures and see where they went wrong. You can do the same. I can tell you 40 people a day is wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    I suspect Jamie2k9 may be taking his synopsis from the 2019 Heavy Rail report that states that between Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort stations 44 passengers embarked per day.

    That figure doesnt factor in passengers who alight at those three stations mentioned above (42). It also wouldn't consider passengers who embark in Ennis for example and disembark in Oranmore in the wider context of the WRCs feasibility.

    Jamie is obviously welcome to clarify otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    i took it to mean 40 passengers per train, which is better but merely a bus load.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Isambard wrote: »
    i took it to mean 40 passengers per train, which is better but merely a bus load.

    Yes, but its 10 times the stated figure which is 10 buses.
    I really think that figure has been totally misrepresented anyways. The train is full at the times that suit the commuter both ways, its not like every train in the country is full all day. I understand its the worst they could make the numbers sound and it really stuck, so much so that people now think it was 40 people a day (maybe because a Junior Ministor said it)! If Irish Rail actually wanted more people to use the train there would be improved timetables.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    The Ennis to Athenry carried 138,000 in 2018 (source IE).

    Irish Rail operate 363 days and there is 5 services Mon-Sat, 4 Sun & Public Holidays. I would make it 60 days of a Sunday/PH service and 303 of Mon-Sat service in 2018. Therefore a total 3,510 scheduled train services giving a average load per train of 39.3 passengers so 39 passengers. This does not include the few extra for Galway Races specials which would bring the 39 figure slightly lower.

    Average weekday loads Mon-Sat 2,340 (390 x 6) and Sun 312.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The Ennis to Athenry carried 138,000 in 2018 (source IE).

    Irish Rail operate 363 days and there is 5 services Mon-Sat, 4 Sun & Public Holidays. I would make it 60 days of a Sunday/PH service and 303 of Mon-Sat service in 2018. Therefore a total 3,510 scheduled train services giving a average load per train of 39.3 passengers so 39 passengers. This does not include the few extra for Galway Races specials which would bring the 39 figure slightly lower.

    Average weekday loads Mon-Sat 2,340 (390 x 6) and Sun 312.

    Exactly, that is the per train load average. If all modes of transport used a per unit average there would be many people left waiting at all the stops every morning and evening. It is not a fair reflection of the usage imo. 138,000 passengers a year between two towns sounds better :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    it must mean some trains are virtually empty and serve little useful purpose.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Exactly, that is the per train load average. If all modes of transport used a per unit average there would be many people left waiting at all the stops every morning and evening. It is not a fair reflection of the usage imo. 138,000 passengers a year between two towns sounds better :)

    I did say it was an average and not a good one either. It is a fair reflection of the usage, the stats are stats and 138,000 per year for the service level is poor. Would you support IE dropping all non peak services?

    In comparison Waterford/Limerick J with 2 return services per day over 6 days has an average of 33.8 rounded to 34 passengers per train in 2018 and that's with regular bus transfers on the route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I did say it was an average and not a good one either. It is a fair reflection of the usage, the stats are stats and 138,000 per year for the service level is poor. Would you support IE dropping all non peak services?

    In comparison Waterford/Limerick J with 2 return services per day over 6 days has an average of 33. rounded to 34 passengers per train in 2018 and that's with regular bus transfers on the route.

    Actually you said to prove it was more than 40 per day and you did that youself so my initial comment was correct.
    My initial comment was regarding people using that stat because some minister says it even though he knows well.

    I have no reason to request IE to stop any service, i think services should be improved, i think connections should be improved, i think IE should plan commuter trains for commuter times in Galway and if selling an intercity service it should be an intercity railcar. Never know, numbers might even improve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Isambard wrote: »
    the rolling stock?

    no as the service was operated by 1 unit i believe, and the unit class were withdrawn 2 years later.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭I told ya


    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/1174d-review-of-western-rail-corridor-phases-2-and-3-athenry-to-claremorris/

    Above, link to EY report on WRC Athenry / Tuam / Claremorris / Collooney.

    Basically, they state it would not provide value for money.

    Haven't read it yet. Will take a few lunch breaks to digest.

    In my view I think that closes the book on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    I told ya wrote: »
    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/1174d-review-of-western-rail-corridor-phases-2-and-3-athenry-to-claremorris/

    Above, link to EY report on WRC Athenry / Tuam / Claremorris / Collooney.

    Basically, they state it would not provide value for money.

    Haven't read it yet. Will take a few lunch breaks to digest.

    In my view I think that closes the book on it.

    I've been reading it. The 'mistakes' are breath taking. I not only don't think the book is closed on it, after the Irish sugar report debacle, I'm wondering do we have a problem with reports in this country :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Captain Lugger


    Greaney wrote: »
    I've been reading it. The 'mistakes' are breath taking. I not only don't think the book is closed on it, after the Irish sugar report debacle, I'm wondering do we have a problem with reports in this country :(

    The more things change, the more they remain the same. Here's a flavour of an article, that used to be linked to in full here, from the Sunday Independent in 1979:
    So the electrification of the Dublin-Bray suburban line has been approved. There can be few projects in the history of the State for which there was less jusification. Here we had a railway line which does about 2% or urban transport and in doing so loses nearly as much money as do the Dublin buses, which carry twenty times as many passengers.

    The line is wasteful of fuel; there is good evidence to show that petroleum imports whould be saved if it were closed and all its passengers used cars, one person to a car.

    So what does the government do? Does it put more money into the more economic bus services, which serve the poorer areas? Not on your life. It proposes to spend nearly £50m, much of it on imported machinery, so that even more — four times more — half-empty trains parade up and down the line, using a system (electrication) which is inherently less fuelefficient than the current diesel system — and far less efficient than buses.

    You and I — the taxpayers — would have to fork out less if instead of electrifing it the government bought a brand-new car for each of the line’s present adult passengers to do their suburban travel in

    It seems that many in the Irish decision making and decision influencing game imbibe from early childhood the notion that rail transport is somehow uniquely wasteful. It's a shame, because they pump out misinformation for free that the Kochs et al paid for time and time again in the United States on an ongoing basis to attempt to scupper rail plans in different localities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭random_guy


    Some more reference to the WRC as well as a potential all Ireland study.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2021-01-20a.229&g232.r


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Great, another study...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Great, another study...

    is there anything to b e said for another study?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Great, another study...

    I think we just need to peer review the figures of the one we have.... ;)

    It had a line in it that was suspiciously positive about the financial cost of re-opening the railway line... it looks like they didn't delete it.

    As I've said before, it's as if Ernest & Young have left some bread crumbs for the public to follow....


Advertisement