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Harsh sentence

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Comments

  • #32
    BBFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    This kind of thread always makes me think that OP has obviously carried out the exact same act and is ****ting it in case they end up in jail. :rolleyes:


  • #33
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    In my case, I think what he did was very deliberate. He was nobody’s boyfriend, he was a co-worker of me and my friend. He decided to get into bed beside somebody he thought was sleeping and feel them up. Hand inside underwear, remember. Two and a half years would be fair, yes. I was almost asleep but not quite so was able to halt it. What would he have done if I was asleep?

    I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I very much disagree that sentencing that person to two and a half years imprisonment is an appropriate response.


  • #34
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Dante7 wrote: »
    I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I very much disagree that sentencing that person to two and a half years imprisonment is an appropriate response.

    It's one year, likely less.. Most of sentence is suspended.


  • #35
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    BBFAN wrote: »
    This kind of thread always makes me think that OP has obviously carried out the exact same act and is ****ting it in case they end up in jail. :rolleyes:

    Yeah, I've obviously sexually assaulted women and have upcoming court cases. Or maybe I have very personal experience of a paedophile raping girls and getting a lesser sentence and that is what annoyed me.


  • #36
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

    Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.


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  • #37
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Dante7 wrote: »
    I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I very much disagree that sentencing that person to two and a half years imprisonment is an appropriate response.

    To spell out exactly what happened - I was being coy - this guy got into bed beside me, put his hand inside my knickers and put his fingers inside my vagina. Only for a few seconds because I pushed him away and ran out of the room.

    I think he thought I was asleep. I was very close to sleep - maybe less than a minute away - and with a few drinks on board, it would have been a heavy sleep. I doubt it would have stopped there. But even if it had stopped there, what I describe above is already an egregious violation. Like I said, I wasn’t traumatised, I was just very glad that I was awake and got away. But I think it’s still a pretty shocking thing for someone to do.

    Like, what class of crime would you categorise it as yourself? Somebody intimately touching somebody else uninvited?


  • #38
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

    Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

    Now , they try the old " I was drunk defence " too.


  • #39
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Even if a mistake, he has to take the consequences of his actions. So enough about him. My thoughts are with the completely innocent people who also suffered the consequences of his actions ie the girl he assaulted having that dreadful experience and also his fiancé who had her life turned upside down.


  • #40
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    nullzero wrote: »
    Of course not, he'd be lucky to have a woman touch his flute
    Well yes, a lot of men (not women) do think that.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭[Deleted User]


    retro:electro wrote: »
    A caution is not sufficient punishment for someone who fails to grasp the fact they’ve done something wrong.

    If it's a genuine mistake, he didn't do anything wrong?

    I once hugged and then kissed the top of my girlfriend's friend's head in a pub because they have the same hair. I didn't do anything wrong and no one thought I did.


    On the other hand, if it wasn't a mistake, then the sentence is about right.


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  • #42
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    If she was a young wan, would that be different? :confused: These threads never seem to escape from whataboutery but specifying ‘aul wan’ adds another layer of peculiarity to the post
    Agreed very much. Bizarre and stupid thing to say.
    BBFAN wrote: »
    This kind of thread always makes me think that OP has obviously carried out the exact same act and is ****ting it in case they end up in jail. :rolleyes:
    Ah that's a bit much too. Quite a leap.


  • #43
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Ads by Google wrote: »
    If it's a genuine mistake, he didn't do anything wrong?

    I once kissed the back of my girlfriend's friend's head in a pub because they have the same hair. I didn't do anything wrong and no one thought I did.


    On the other hand, if it wasn't a mistake, then the sentence is about right.

    That's substantially different to touching a vagina of a person in bed. He showed no actual remorse when it clearly had a negative impact upon the victim.


  • #44
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

    Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

    You think that if he got into bed with his fiancée and touched her vagina without her explicit consent that he should be jailed for one year?


  • #45
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,092 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

    Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

    My missus would be doing a few life sentences if that was the case!


  • #46
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Ads by Google wrote: »
    If it's a genuine mistake, he didn't do anything wrong?

    I once hugged and then kissed the top of my girlfriend's friend's head in a pub because they have the same hair. I didn't do anything wrong and no one thought I did.


    On the other hand, if it wasn't a mistake, then the sentence is about right.

    Does the impact it had on the victim have any bearing on whether a custodial sentence should be applied genuine mistake or not?


  • #47
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    To spell out exactly what happened - I was being coy - this guy got into bed beside me, put his hand inside my knickers and put his fingers inside my vagina. Only for a few seconds because I pushed him away and ran out of the room.

    I think he thought I was asleep. I was very close to sleep - maybe less than a minute away - and with a few drinks on board, it would have been a heavy sleep. I doubt it would have stopped there. But even if it had stopped there, what I describe above is already an egregious violation. Like I said, I wasn’t traumatised, I was just very glad that I was awake and got away. But I think it’s still a pretty shocking thing for someone to do.

    Like, what class of crime would you categorise it as yourself? Somebody intimately touching somebody else uninvited?

    That's absolutely horrible, and I am in no way trying to excuse it or belittle it, and I am really sorry about what happened to you. I just don't think a custodial sentence is necessarily appropriate.


  • #48
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,484 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    No mention of any previous convictions so you have to take him at his word that he mistakingly got into the wrong bed. I feel that the whole sentence should have been suspended.


  • #49
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Dante7 wrote: »
    I just don't think a custodial sentence is necessarily appropriate.

    Why? One of the purposes of prison is to reform your character, and while don’t know any other details it’s clear from the article that his attitude wasn’t conducive to a position of remorse, therefore a year inside having a think about that might do him the world of good. I would agree that a custodial sentence would be harsh had he acknowledged his wrongdoing but since his defence was basically “your honour, i was meant to force myself on my girlfriend instead” I have no sympathy and he sounds like a twat


  • #50
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Ann Rowland SC, defending, said the offence was completely out of character for her client and that he had led an otherwise “entirely blameless life”.
    What a hero. He went most of his life without touching womens vaginas without permission.

    He probably didn't realise the law allowing you one sexual assault when you reached the age of 32 had been changed. My heart goes out to him.


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭[Deleted User]


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Does the impact it had on the victim have any bearing on whether a custodial sentence should be applied genuine mistake or not?

    No? The point of the law is to rehabilitate, not mete out punishment based on subjective effects. There are plenty of legal things we can do that can have a serious impact on someone, such as cheating etc.

    I wish I could remember the thread years ago where this was debated on here. It wasn't about rape but it was about whether or not the severity of impact should have any effect on sentencing.


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  • #52
    Muckka
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    He probably wouldn't have dreamt about it if he was sober.
    Drinks an awful curse, the amount of damage it has done to people and families it effects is huge.

    There's another example of someone doing something stupid under the influence of the demon drink.

    Probably had a black out, and light's out.

    It doesn't excuse the trauma the victim went through.

    But it goes to show what someone who is other wise sane sober gets up to while drunk.


  • #53
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Dante7 wrote: »
    That's absolutely horrible, and I am in no way trying to excuse it or belittle it, and I am really sorry about what happened to you. I just don't think a custodial sentence is necessarily appropriate.

    Well, here’s the thing - do you think I’m the first and last woman he did that to? Maybe I was the one and only. I doubt it though. So, to me, a custodial sentence might actually shock some sense into someone who thinks feeling unwilling people up is okay. Then again, maybe nothing will knock that deviance out of a person. So what’s the solution?


  • #54
    Vic_08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Dante7 wrote: »
    That's absolutely horrible, and I am in no way trying to excuse it or belittle it,

    Yes you are, at least have the courage of your non-conviction.
    Dante7 wrote: »
    and I am really sorry about what happened to you. I just don't think a custodial sentence is necessarily appropriate.

    What he did was a real crime with a real victim who suffered real consequences, you just don't believe the criminal should suffer any consequences.

    Sounds like a dictionary definition of belittling to me.

    As for your horror at a very similar crime and offering of sorrow, sounds like self-serving BS to me, you posted no such claims about the linked case which you are making every effort to minimise here.


  • #55
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,484 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Irish Guitarist wrote:
    What a hero. He went most of his life without touching womens vaginas without permission.
    He probably didn't realise the law allowing you one sexual assault when you reached the age of 32 had been changed. My heart goes out to him.
    Yeah but if a man reaches that age without having ever broken a law and there was drink involved and he says he made a mistake getting into the wrong bed then you have to take him at his word. Even the way it happened when he realised it was the wrong bed he got up and walked out of the room is very unusual.
    You have to accept his explanation here. The man should nit be behind bars for this imo. And I'm normally at the other end if the spectrum regarding sentencing in sex cases.


  • #56
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Why? One of the purposes of prison is to reform your character, and while don’t know any other details it’s clear from the article that his attitude wasn’t conducive to a position of remorse, therefore a year inside having a think about that might do him the world of good. I would agree that a custodial sentence would be harsh had he acknowledged his wrongdoing but since his defence was basically “your honour, i was meant to force myself on my girlfriend instead” I have no sympathy and he sounds like a twat

    Hmm, not too sure about the tone of this. It smacks of Gulag. No one is saying that he didn't require sanction, but the question is, was it overly harsh. I happen to believe that it was extremely harsh.


  • #57
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Harsh sentence for what sounds like a genuine mistake. Harsher still for the girl to name and shame him.


  • #58
    Jmsg
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Jmsg


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Does the impact it had on the victim have any bearing on whether a custodial sentence should be applied genuine mistake or not?

    This question hits at a central issue in the whole matter, that is the notion in the culture at large and motion in the contemporary legal system towards having the heinousness of sexual crimes be based at a primary level on victim impact which is something that differs dramatically based on the individual ranging from total indifference to outright suicidal hysteria.

    If a man climbs into a woman’s bed and touches her vagina and she reacts positively then to do so is perfectly acceptable, but if a negative reaction is the case then outright jail time’s the outcome. Merely women’s wills are clearly too fine a line in the matter to separate that which is perfectly acceptable and that which is utmostly abominable. It is demonstrably the case that historically what constituted the severity of sexual crimes has been synonymous with the transgressing of fundamental, mutually understood moral codes about what constitutes acceptable behavior in the area in general. With the loosening if not outright annihilation of such codes in recent times, the boundaries have become extremely murky resulting in a chronic cultural crisis, the lack of resolve of which has been bubbling up to the fore more and more in the public consciousness via the media as we all know, and will continue to become more and more prominent an issue until we capable to resolve it via serious discussion on the matter collectively but unfortunately there are little signs of that actually happening.


  • #59
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Ads by Google wrote: »
    No? The point of the law is to rehabilitate, not mete out punishment based on subjective effects. There are plenty of legal things we can do that can have a serious impact on someone, such as cheating etc.

    I wish I could remember the thread years ago where this was debated on here. It wasn't about rape but it was about whether or not the severity of impact should have any effect on sentencing.

    The point of law isn’t primarily rehabilitation. That would be a totally different legal system.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭[Deleted User]


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The point of law isn’t primarily rehabilitation. That would be a totally different legal system.

    Off the top of my head, I would say it's about rehabilitating, protecting the public, and deterring future offenders.

    If this guy genuinely went into the wrong room and thought it was his girlfriend, a custodial sentence does literally nothing for anyone. It doesn't help the girl, it changes nothing about him, and it doesn't deter anyone, since anyone can make a mistake.

    Honestly, you'd have to argue that this guy is likely to make the same mistake again unless sent to prison. That's loose ground to be standing on.

    My friend mistakenly entered the wrong house and slept on the couch thinking it was our house. Should he be arrested and sent to prison for home invasion to ensure he's more careful about house numbers? No.


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  • #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    She said she was falling asleep when Doran came into the room and got into her bed and touched her vagina.

    He said to her “show me your clit”     and then got up and walked out.

    The home-grown talent and class available to the average Irishwoman never fails to impress.


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