Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Leaf e+ 62kWh

1246710

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    KCross wrote: »
    Can you take a few LeafSpy screenshots along the way showing the remaining kWh and what distance you've covered at that point.

    Is there much altitude change on the route you are taking?

    Not sure about elevation but it's a return trip so the net will be 0.

    I'll take some screenshots no problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Something that occurred to me just now.....

    The German report in early December implied that this new L62 would get extra fan for cooling.

    Is it possible that the euro spec cars might get a different set up to US cars?????.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    KCross wrote: »
    As an added data point the UK price after grant for the 3.Zero is £31,095 for 40kWh and £36,795 for 62kWh.

    The L62 is definitely going to be Kona price territory.


    Clearly Hyundai, Kia and now Nissan are not concerned about a Neo coming out in 12 months time for significantly less money.

    Will VW really have a similar range for less money?

    Mid spec ( 60kWh ) is supposedly over 30k, add in things and it's easily Kona and Leaf62 money

    We are being fairly gouged too with bigger range

    5k extra for Leaf62 is working out at €227/kWh

    Thought battery cell producers were close to €100/kWh now

    Uprated electric motor and maybe bigger brakes cost a bit, but not 3k


  • Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Zenith74


    “LG does not supply any cells for our batteries, both in the US and globally, for either the 40 or 62 kWh battery”, according to Nissan spokesperson Jeff Wandell.

    https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/09/nissan-denies-reports-rumors-that-lg-is-a-cell-supplier-for-the-leaf-battery/


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Zenith74 wrote: »
    “LG does not supply any cells for our batteries, both in the US and globally, for either the 40 or 62 kWh battery”, according to Nissan spokesperson Jeff Wandell.

    https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/09/nissan-denies-reports-rumors-that-lg-is-a-cell-supplier-for-the-leaf-battery/

    That explains the passive cooling then, as LG Chem would be unlikely to accept warranty on their pack being passively cooled. It makes sense.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://twitter.com/NissanUK/status/1083068483926216704



    So, it seems its active cooling but just not liquid cooling.... same as the Ioniq, which seems to work fine for it and it can take 62kW average over a full charge session so I cant see why the Leaf L62 wont be able to do the same?


    There is also talk about how the cells are configured in the L62 which should result in significantly less internal resistance hence less heat.

    It all still requires a real world test though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,842 ✭✭✭Soarer


    KCross wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/NissanUK/status/1083068483926216704



    So, it seems its active cooling but just not liquid cooling.... same as the Ioniq, which seems to work fine for it and it can take 62kW average over a full charge session so I cant see why the Leaf L62 wont be able to do the same?


    There is also talk about how the cells are configured in the L62 which should result in significantly less internal resistance hence less heat.

    It all still requires a real world test though.

    Nissan are saying it'll average 70kW over a charging session, obviously charger dependant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    An additional fan sounds like a great news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    samih wrote: »
    An additional fan sounds like a great news.
    +1 for sure


    I shall withhold my judgment on the rest of the car until Bjorn reviews it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    It did surprise me that the leaked report from Germany suggested a fan yet no mention of it in the USA launch.

    Regional spec variation?????.

    Which actually makes no sense though when we consider Arizona tempertures


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    So what Nissan seem to have done is that they have created a 96S-3P battery pack instead of 96S-2P they have used in the past on L24-L40.

    So there is maybe 5 percent improvement in capacity per cell over L40 but over 50 percent improvement in the pack due to 50 percent more cells in the pack. And that's why the motor can now pull 160 kW instead of 110 kW. I thinks the L62 motor is the exact same unit that in L40 and therefore also the same as MY13 L24. A great example of why electric drivetrains are awesome and why bigger battery means more power.

    Load per cell at 120 km/h will be very different on L62 vs L40 so the experiment I'm planning won't reveal any meaningful data of capability of L62 as a high speed cruiser. But I expect it to be much better than L24-L40.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    There was a follow on tweet to that Nissan UK tweet where the Nissan tweeter added that the car might still reduce charge speed during multiple rapids.

    So I would still see rapidgate scenarios potentially kicking in


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    Old diesel wrote: »
    There was a follow on tweet to that Nissan UK tweet where the Nissan tweeter added that the car might still reduce charge speed during multiple rapids.

    So I would still see rapidgate scenarios potentially kicking in

    As a matter of fact it's guaranteed to heat up without proper battery cooling. I don't see any vents in the battery box so there is probably additional fan to draw air, maybe even chilled cabin air, over the top of the battery casing to stop heat pooling. But as there is radically different configuration of the battery layout now it's best to wait and see how it performs in practice. Most likely the battery will cool more efficiently when driving as each cell is driven at 33 percent less at any given speed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Old diesel wrote: »
    There was a follow on tweet to that Nissan UK tweet where the Nissan tweeter added that the car might still reduce charge speed during multiple rapids.

    So I would still see rapidgate scenarios potentially kicking in

    The key thing is that to do multiple rapids in the L62 you'd probably need to be doing 500km+ in the one day.

    Even a Tesla has rapidgate if you hit it hard enough at the supercharger! :D

    The tests will be interesting though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    samih wrote: »

    Load per cell at 120 km/h will be very different on L62 vs L40 so the experiment I'm planning won't reveal any meaningful data of capability of L62 as a high speed cruiser. But I expect it to be much better than L24-L40.

    Hope your right, even if it's only 5% more efficient at 120km/h, that brings it to 250km range at that speed

    My longest journey is Limerick - Dublin, will cover grand then

    Style wise I love the Leaf, good size hatchback and feels planted to drive

    Always wanted an electric hot hatch, with 6.4 secs to 60 and 215bhp Leaf62 is it

    Fan cooling like the Ioniq could work well, it will never charge over 50kW here so even 2 rapids and 600km motorway driving should be possible

    Availability shouldn't be an issue too in 2020 with AESC cells

    Nissan could get this to me right

    Just put in CCS and its hard to knock it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Hope your right, even if it's only 5% more efficient at 120km/h, that brings it to 250km range at that speed

    My longest journey is Limerick - Dublin, will cover grand then

    Style wise I love the Leaf, good size hatchback and feels planted to drive

    Always wanted an electric hot hatch, with 6.4 secs to 60 and 215bhp Leaf62 is it

    Fan cooling like the Ioniq could work well, it will never charge over 50kW here so even 2 rapids and 600km motorway driving should be possible

    Availability shouldn't be an issue too in 2020 with AESC cells

    Nissan could get this to me right

    Just put in CCS and its hard to knock it


    Thats some jump, from a Model 3 to a Leaf :P


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    KCross wrote: »
    ...

    Even a Tesla has rapidgate if you hit it hard enough at the supercharger! :D

    ...

    402.gif


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Emily Faint Yokel


    200 hp is a good step in the right direction but unfortunately if still at the front wheels will make wheel spin pure ridiculous, the L40 is a joke in damp and wet conditions when you are hard on the throttle so much so that it would bug the crap out of me.

    However, Nissan probably have a good power increase at the mid and top end where wheel spin is less likely and it would be good on the Motorway.

    Regarding heat, I can't see it being a huge problem , after all the 60 Kwh will be handicapped by ChaDeMo spec and all our chargers max out at 45 Kw.

    The larger pack should be able to take the same power and not heat much at all, but internal resistance dependent but I would say heat won't be a big issue especially if it's fan cooled.

    I'd be more concerned about lack of battery heating, I did not hear anything about this which is just as important as cooling. 30-35 Kw charging on a cool battery is not fast in my opinion, however it might be possible that by the time it needs a fast charge on a long spin it might have warmed up a good bit but for anyone who has no home charging it will be a right pain in the ass charging a 60 Kw pack in the cold and also if you stay the night somewhere and need to charge to get home , internal resistance increases in a cold battery.

    It's going to be interesting to see on the road for real but sadly let down by a poor DC charging network and ChaDeMo.

    There were rumours some time ago about faster AC charging, 20 Kw AC charging would indeed make life in the 60 Kwh Leaf a lot easier as anyone with faster AC charging such as Myself knows all to well, faster AC charging means far less time hanging around at fast chargers.

    Even 7 Kw charging can greatly reduce time at the fast charger, 21 Kwh in 3 hrs is nothing to sniff at, I can get 22 Kwh in 2 hrs at 11 Kw, it's very convenient.

    The ESB will be installing 150 Kw DC chargers, will they have ChaDeMO ?

    Did someone say the leaf tops out at 70 Kw ? didn't think ChaDeMo I topped out at 70 Kw ? if that's the case and Leaf can charge at 70 kw it would increase heating but it's also a larger battery and fan cooled can't see it being a big issue in Ireland, potential for 500 Kms with one charge or more if driving a lot on older national routes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    200 hp is a good step in the right direction but unfortunately if still at the front wheels will make wheel spin pure ridiculous, the L40 is a joke in damp and wet conditions when you are hard on the throttle so much so that it would bug the crap out of me.

    However, Nissan probably have a good power increase at the mid and top end where wheel spin is less likely and it would be good on the Motorway.

    Regarding heat, I can't see it being a huge problem , after all the 60 Kwh will be handicapped by ChaDeMo spec and all our chargers max out at 45 Kw.

    The larger pack should be able to take the same power and not heat much at all, but internal resistance dependent but I would say heat won't be a big issue especially if it's fan cooled.

    I'd be more concerned about lack of battery heating, I did not hear anything about this which is just as important as cooling. 30-35 Kw charging on a cool battery is not fast in my opinion, however it might be possible that by the time it needs a fast charge on a long spin it might have warmed up a good bit but for anyone who has no home charging it will be a right pain in the ass charging a 60 Kw pack in the cold and also if you stay the night somewhere and need to charge to get home , internal resistance increases in a cold battery.

    It's going to be interesting to see on the road for real but sadly let down by a poor DC charging network and ChaDeMo.

    There were rumours some time ago about faster AC charging, 20 Kw AC charging would indeed make life in the 60 Kwh Leaf a lot easier as anyone with faster AC charging such as Myself knows all to well, faster AC charging means far less time hanging around at fast chargers.

    Even 7 Kw charging can greatly reduce time at the fast charger, 21 Kwh in 3 hrs is nothing to sniff at, I can get 22 Kwh in 2 hrs at 11 Kw, it's very convenient.

    The ESB will be installing 150 Kw DC chargers, will they have ChaDeMO ?

    Did someone say the leaf tops out at 70 Kw ? didn't think ChaDeMo I topped out at 70 Kw ? if that's the case and Leaf can charge at 70 kw it would increase heating but it's also a larger battery and fan cooled can't see it being a big issue in Ireland, potential for 500 Kms with one charge or more if driving a lot on older national routes.

    There is supposed to be 100 kw chademo chargers coming on stream. On those the ePlus will supposedly hit 100 kw briefly and then "settle down to 70 kw".

    Charge time* for ePlus on these 100 kw chargers to 80 percent will be same as the current Leaf 40 on a 50 kw charger.

    *with no rapidgate throttling on either car


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    200 hp is a good step in the right direction but unfortunately if still at the front wheels will make wheel spin pure ridiculous, the L40 is a joke in damp and wet conditions when you are hard on the throttle so much so that it would bug the crap out of me.

    They've tweaked the software in the L62 to not give the full torque at 0 rpm. Max torque comes in at 500rpm.... not sure what speed that would be but obviously they've thought about wheel spin with the extra bhp on tap and pushed more of the torque to the higher speeds which is also welcome.

    I'd be more concerned about lack of battery heating, I did not hear anything about this which is just as important as cooling. 30-35 Kw charging on a cool battery is not fast in my opinion, however it might be possible that by the time it needs a fast charge on a long spin it might have warmed up a good bit but for anyone who has no home charging it will be a right pain in the ass charging a 60 Kw pack in the cold and also if you stay the night somewhere and need to charge to get home , internal resistance increases in a cold battery.

    All existing Leaf's had a battery heater in cold climates so its reasonable to assume this one does too. Not sure a heater is required for our climate though. As you said, after a few hundred km's and 5mins at 45kW charging and the temp will be fine.

    Did someone say the leaf tops out at 70 Kw ? didn't think ChaDeMo I topped out at 70 Kw ?

    CHAdeMO 2 allows 100kW+ chargers. There are some in Norway I think. I doubt we'll see them here though.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Chademo tops out at 62.5kW (and that's at 500v).
    Without upgrading to chademo 2 - (which doesnt exist in many places in Europe except a few in Norway afaik) you will not be able to charge the leaf above 45kW


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Old diesel wrote: »
    There is supposed to be 100 kw chademo chargers coming on stream. On those the ePlus will supposedly hit 100 kw briefly and then "settle down to 70 kw".

    Charge time* for ePlus on these 100 kw chargers to 80 percent will be same as the current Leaf 40 on a 50 kw charger.

    *with no rapidgate throttling on either car
    There will not be 100kW chademo stations.


    That would have to be chademo 2 as the max under chademo 1 with 400v is 50kW gross. (62.5kW at 500v). They don't really exist in the wild, and I can't imagine ecars paying more for something that will never be used (other than the leaf 60 and the rare kia soul 30kWh, nothing else can use more than 50kW on chademo. CCS is the future. Most HPC 100kW+ chargers are either CCS only, or 100kW+ for CCS and 50kW for chademo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    There will not be 100kW chademo stations.


    That would have to be chademo 2 as the max under chademo 1 with 400v is 50kW gross. (62.5kW at 500v). They don't really exist in the wild, and I can't imagine ecars paying more for something that will never be used (other than the leaf 60 and the rare kia soul 30kWh, nothing else can use more than 50kW on chademo. CCS is the future. Most HPC 100kW+ chargers are either CCS only, or 100kW+ for CCS and 50kW for chademo.

    I've seen suggestions Nissan dealers will get some although no locations mentioned


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Old diesel wrote: »
    I've seen suggestions Nissan dealers will get some although no locations mentioned
    Most of which the dealers object to you using. Some of them are open business hours only, or are blocked by demo cars, or in the case of Randles in Tralee, they tried to charge for it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Lots of posts about stuff I don't really care about :-)

    Anyone ring a dealer and find out price in Ireland and when it will be available?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Lots of posts about stuff I don't really care about :-)

    Anyone ring a dealer and find out price in Ireland and when it will be available?


    Dealers won't know anything, you'd be better off ringing hq or a press contact


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Dealers won't know anything, you'd be better off ringing hq or a press contact


    My old contact has left Nissan :mad: no more info


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Thats some jump, from a Model 3 to a Leaf :P

    I'm no snob lol

    As long as it's quick and keenly priced, I am game :)

    Finally the market is heating up and some choice at last

    Just need Ioniq long range and VW ID now to show up and I won't know what to do


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Lots of posts about stuff I don't really care about :-)

    Anyone ring a dealer and find out price in Ireland and when it will be available?

    You're so right: lots of posts ... posting stuff that indicate the typical human begging condition character: we want a big battery car,fully cryogenic cooled,full options but at a lowest cost possible... And,even is near zero,we will moan that why is it so cheap,must be something wrong... never happy...hmm

    Be good ... and enjoy it.


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Emily Faint Yokel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Chademo tops out at 62.5kW (and that's at 500v).
    Without upgrading to chademo 2 - (which doesnt exist in many places in Europe except a few in Norway afaik) you will not be able to charge the leaf above 45kW

    Exactly what I'm thinking, as far as I'm aware the leaf 60 Kwh does not have ChaDeMo II. Don't think the standard was available yet anyway.

    45 Kw is a sad joke on a 60 Kwh battery really.


Advertisement