Speed cameras in Ireland - a guide

Iwannahurl · 14-07-2014 10:43pm

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

the motorist really is a cashcow:rolleyes:

Days 298 wrote: »

They aren't paying for themselves anymore.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0710/629798-public-accounts-speeding/

Looks like we behaved ourselves too much.

mikeecho wrote: »

GoSafe will end up doing road motor tax enforcement.. I reckon.

Will there be an 86% chance of evading a conviction for motor tax offences as well?

ironclaw · 15-07-2014 8:32am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Will there be an 86% chance of evading a conviction for motor tax offences as well?

Done right it would make a mint for the coffers given the widespread abuse of the tax system. Motor tax should be against the individual hence you can't sell the car if there is tax owing and in the event of the fine, if you go to renew, it will be waiting for you. We are far, far too lenient in this country.

But you are right, its too easy to get off the hook here.

HurtLocker · 15-07-2014 1:20pm

The purpose was to slow down drivers. Tax avoidance is not a road safety issue. NCT on the other hand is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/road-safety-successes-see-fines-collected-fall-pac-told-1.1861817

It appears the contract is up this November

According to the irish times

However, there were much bigger reductions in fatalities in those zones in the period from 2005 to 2009, before the new system was introduced and as road traffic enforcement was increased generally across the State.

The five-year GoSafe contract will expire in four months and is being reviewed.

I'll leave others interpret the above as they please. All I say is the trend was fatality rate was downwards before speed vans arrived. If the rate downward had increased the RSA would have logically pointed out the correlation. But they didn't have that effect.

Although

She said while detections from the GoSafe system had fallen - from just over 70,000 in the first six months of 2011 to just over 30,000 in the second half of last year

The number who can try to evade is less than half as much as in 2011.

mikeecho · 15-07-2014 2:04pm

Guys, what happens with GoSafe in the coming months/ year (remember there is an option for the Government to extend it for 1yr)
will be very important.

If the system is scrapped, then it will be very difficult for a similar system to be reinstated, as the concept will be seen as flawed. (see 'e-Voting' machines)

In order to keep speed cameras, they will have to put a spin on things.
Something along the lines of;
"The Vast majority of drivers are law abiding and have nothing to fear, but we need to catch the prolific speeders who cause carnage, thus we will be operating a number of unmarked GoSafe vans to catch these people"

and that number of unmarked vans will be ever increasing.

That and the GoSafe vans will (imo) be used for other purposes as well as speeding, such as Motor Tax, Nct.

Also bear in mind that there was talks of average speed cams (specs) to be put on motorways not so long also.
The financial failure of GoSafe will hopefully put a halt to those plans as well.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-speed-detectors-to-stop-drivers-slowing-for-cameras-29874207.html

Days 298 · 15-07-2014 2:34pm

Average cameras may catch people at the start as well but people will adjust. Our motorway network from my experience is very quiet outside Dublin. Motorways are the safest road in the country. They will end up costing money in the end too. Plus you will again have people tailgating in the hope of their reg being missed by the cameras.

And worse still the boyracers who loved to race around my area during the Celtic Tiger who now head to our new motorways will be back

. Great.

I think the increase to 3 penalty points may be a sign of less cameras tbh. Increasing enforcement albeit unsuccessfully and increasing the penalty is not a way to garner public support near an election. Now Vardakar is no longer in charge of transport the plans may be shelved. Donohoe may not wish to grab headlines and speak to the press as often as possible as Leo was/is infamous for.

Plus Pascal Donohoe the new transport minister was formerly on the PAC. He wont want to be called upon for wasting public money on failed road safety projects that have no benefit. Id say hell focus on sport and tourism for the remainder of this government. The gathering albeit contreversal garners more support than anti-speeding initiatives.

mikeeco wrote:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29874207.html

Funny how the indo use "new technology". Dividing distance by time to get speed isnt new.

mikeecho · 15-07-2014 2:44pm

Days 298 wrote: »

Average cameras may catch people at the start as well but people will adjust. .......

Just wait for the flurry of smart phone apps, and Satnav updates alerting to when you are in an average speed zone.

This proposed average speed camera technology will operate at even more of a financial loss

Days 298 wrote: »

Funny how the indo use "new technology". Dividing distance by time to get speed isnt new.

Well, Time/Distance is how speed has been measured since day 1.

When they mention new technology, they mean new technology to do that job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_%28speed_camera%29

blackwhite · 15-07-2014 2:46pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Guys, what happens with GoSafe in the coming months/ year (remember there is an option for the Government to extend it for 1yr)
will be very important.

If the system is scrapped, then it will be very difficult for a similar system to be reinstated, as the concept will be seen as flawed. (see 'e-Voting' machines)

In order to keep speed cameras, they will have to put a spin on things.
Something along the lines of;
"The Vast majority of drivers are law abiding and have nothing to fear, but we need to catch the prolific speeders who cause carnage, thus we will be operating a number of unmarked GoSafe vans to catch these people"

and that number of unmarked vans will be ever increasing.

That and the GoSafe vans will (imo) be used for other purposes as well as speeding, such as Motor Tax, Nct.

Also bear in mind that there was talks of average speed cams (specs) to be put on motorways not so long also.
The financial failure of GoSafe will hopefully put a halt to those plans as well.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-speed-detectors-to-stop-drivers-slowing-for-cameras-29874207.html

I think GoSafe has the potential to serve a good purpose and should be retained.

However a serious review of their placements is needed. They continually show up in the same spots, usually at places where there is no history of serious or fatal accidents, and are noticeably absent from stretches of road which do have a record of serious accidents.

Realistically, a full review of traffic policing in this country is needed. At the moment we have a situation where the gardai are sent out in the morning with instructions for what offences to look for today.
Cars with faulty or no lights are ignored except for on designated, pre-announced, days.
Unaccompanied learner drivers are never policed.
Lane discipline doesn't exist on our multi-lane roads.
Red-light jumping is rampant (an area where cameras would be very welcome!).

I can't understand why the traffic corps are primarily in marked vehicles. Realistically, they should be in a fleet of varied, unmarked vehicles and should be on the lookout for any and all offences - not just whatever has been put on their list for today.

blackwhite · 15-07-2014 4:26pm

Unmarked cars are easy to spot because they are nearly all the same (i.e. base-spec Mondeos)

A proper unmarked fleet that has a large variety of makes and models would be a lot more difficult for people to detect.

EDIT - strange, the post I was replying to seems to have been deleted

wotswattage · 16-07-2014 12:39am

I haven't looked up any figured but seemingly all (most anyway) of the gosafe fleet seems to be 141 reg now. Has this recent fleet upgrade affected the profit/loss for tgis year for gosafe?

I'm guessing they aren't leased with all the camera equipment needing to be installed..?

Victor · 16-07-2014 1:09am

wotswattage wrote: »

I haven't looked up any figured but seemingly all (most anyway) of the gosafe fleet seems to be 141 reg now. Has this recent fleet upgrade affected the profit/loss for tgis year for gosafe?

Strictly a matter for the operator.

I'm guessing they aren't leased with all the camera equipment needing to be installed..?

I imagine there are various options available
* buy basic vehicle and fit own equipment;
* lease basic vehicle and fit own equipment;
* lease basic vehicle and fit leased equipment;
* lease everything in one package and supply operators and back office staff.
It will be down to the economics of each option as to which the operator choose.

A smart operator would probably go for a mix of owned and leased vehicles and equipment. Equipment is likely swapped around any time the vehicle is in the garage and spare equipment swapped in and out for anything that gets damaged.

wotswattage · 16-07-2014 1:14pm

What I'm getting at is the huge cost for the first year of operation included the purchase of equipment, and in subsequent years the cost per year was much less. Has the renewal of the fleet this year affected the figures? Will gosafe return to being self financing next year?

mikeecho · 16-07-2014 5:44pm

SENIOR police officers have claimed that placing speed camera vans on motorway bridges or stretches of road without a history of accidents is like “shooting fish in a barrel”.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/police-claim-speed-cameras-just-a-cash-cow-1-3316404.

thelionspet · 16-07-2014 7:00pm

Very interesting... thanks for posting.

mikeecho · 16-07-2014 7:14pm

dont think this will work here, with the IR flash.. but maybe it would i dunno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyge14f0n6A

it seems to be retro reflective black tape.

just search ebay for reflective black tape.. you'll find rolls of the stuff

frozenfrozen · 16-07-2014 9:29pm

mikeecho wrote: »

dont think this will work here, with the IR flash.. but maybe it would i dunno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyge14f0n6A

it seems to be retro reflective black tape.

just search ebay for reflective black tape.. you'll find rolls of the stuff

yeah that won't work don't get anyones hopes up

markcahill02 · 21-07-2014 7:31pm

Okay I'm hoping I can be given some assurance here so I won't be nervous watching the post man for the next couple of weeks.

Last night (12.30) I was driving on a 80km country stretch of road it is then, for some silly reason, dropped to a 60km zone for about a mile where speed cameras are known to be placed. Running late I completely forgot about this 60km stretch of road as I continued to drive on at about 80km until I noticed a orange flashing beacon on the roof of a van. At first I presumed it could have been some late roadside assistance or road working but I then noticed the speed van symbol on the side when I was only a couple of yards away from it. I slowed down swiftly and before I could check my speed I had pasted the van. I may have been slightly over 60km at this stage but I'm not sure. The van was on my side of the road but it's rear camera was pointing in the opposite direction. It's seemed like the rear door may have been open and there was definitely some sort of external lights set up on a tripod facing in the direction I was traveling from the rear of the van.

I'm just confused about the whole situation and I have yet to come across anything like this in the forums so far. Perhaps they were just setting up at that stage as I have a feeling the door may have been open at the rear, Or do you think I'll be getting something my notice in the post. Any help will be appreciated

ironclaw · 21-07-2014 8:15pm

@markcahill02 - If there was definitely a tripod outside then they were most likely setting up and you are fine. There is a procedure they follow when they arrive that necessitates the rear doors being open and a small tripod unit for calibration. During this time, no speed is recorded and no fines issued.

TimeToShine · 28-07-2014 1:54am

Are they allowed to set up speed vans on national motorways?

pa990 · 28-07-2014 12:24pm

TimeToShine wrote: »

Are they allowed to set up speed vans on national motorways?

Yes

ironclaw · 28-07-2014 12:36pm

pa990 wrote: »

Yes

Whilst I've only ever seen one on a motorway, is there not a Statue saying you cannot park on a motorway without due cause? Granted they are Garda in the course of their duties but its unbelievably dangerous. Also the little off ramps they have scattered across the country wouldn't work in a van scenario.

TimeToShine · 28-07-2014 12:42pm

Are you saying they just plonk themselves on the hard shoulder no bother and plough away?

pa990 · 28-07-2014 1:55pm

TimeToShine wrote: »

Are you saying they just plonk themselves on the hard shoulder no bother and plough away?

Yes

Although, on a motorway they Park off the hard shoulder.
Ie, under a bridge on the paved section, to the left of the hard shoulder.

Or inside in the area cordoned off for roadworks.

margio · 01-08-2014 10:04pm

Encounterd a Garda operated camera van (not marked) yeterday in a 50km zone. engine was facing me. camera is located in the back. ie camera wasn't facing me. I saw the D reg and broke. i realise they prob can photo rear of car. but what happens if you pass rear of van under 50 after breaking. Like a previous poster a gard once told me that those vans can only nab the traffic driving towards the camera (towards the rear of the car), but another gard told me that radar reads the speed and then can photo rear of vehicle. I'm confused, as I know the Gatso's can nab from both directions as they have a front and rear camera. Anyone have any knowledge on this issue. Thanks

pa990 · 01-08-2014 10:09pm

margio wrote: »

Encounterd a Garda operated camera van (not marked) yeterday in a 50km zone. engine was facing me. camera is located in the back. ie camera wasn't facing me. I saw the D reg and broke. i realise they prob can photo rear of car. but what happens if you pass rear of van under 50 after breaking. Like a previous poster a gard once told me that those vans can only nab the traffic driving towards the camera (towards the rear of the car), but another gard told me that radar reads the speed and then can photo rear of vehicle. I'm confused, as I know the Gatso's can nab from both directions as they have a front and rear camera. Anyone have any knowledge on this issue. Thanks

Speed reading and pic are taken thru rear window of the van.

It's all throughly explained on page one, post one.

margio · 02-08-2014 10:53am

thanks, one other question. does a camera van always have to be parked with engine face one direction and back facing the other. can the be parked with engine facing a ditch/wall etc and camera facing passing traffic

ironclaw · 02-08-2014 10:19pm

margio wrote: »

thanks, one other question. does a camera van always have to be parked with engine face one direction and back facing the other. can the be parked with engine facing a ditch/wall etc and camera facing passing traffic

They say there is no such thing as a stupid question but thats pretty close. Why do you think it would / wouldn't have to be facing a wall / traffic?

margio · 02-08-2014 11:19pm

being that your're the expert. why don't you explain.

mikeecho · 03-08-2014 5:00pm

margio wrote: »

being that your're the expert. why don't you explain.

http://goo.gl/GtmWZj

wotswattage · 03-08-2014 5:42pm

margio wrote: »

being that your're the expert. why don't you explain.

In fairness there are no windows in the sides of the vans.

margio · 04-08-2014 12:50pm

mikeecho wrote: »

http://goo.gl/GtmWZj

It doesn't explain everything

Speed cameras in Ireland - a guide

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