TV's with DVB-T2 (DTT) AND Satellite Tuners

championc · 14-12-2009 4:01pm #1

Hi all,

Are there TV's with standard Analog UHF / VHF tuners but then have BOTH DTT and Satelite Tuners Integrated ? I have an Old Sky box which I only use for Free-To-Air channels but would be interested in replacing my TV to one which has this and ALSO an MPEG-4 / 5 Tuner for the Irish DTT.

I read another posting by someone who mentioned a Panasonic model with an Ethernet connector - what is this used for ?

Cormac

M00lers · 14-12-2009 4:07pm

The Pioneer KRP500A has all of these but the EPG software is a pig to use. A seperate box would be better in my opinion.

championc · 14-12-2009 4:12pm

I don't think I even go as big as a 42" let alone a 50" !! Anything in the 32 or 36's ? Or who are likely do to do them once the UK start producing sets with MPEG-4 tuners for Freeview-HD ?

And what are Ethernet connectors intended to be used for ?

C

steveq · 14-12-2009 4:25pm

The Panasonic TX32LZD81 (also available as a 37") Freesat models have connectors for Satellite and UHV / VHF aerials.
Freesat models only available in the UK though.
I can tune into the Irish DTT and Analogue transmissions and can also receive Freesat directly.

There is a new model out now (mine is about 10 months old) and I assume it can do the same.

fat-tony · 14-12-2009 5:23pm

I don't think there are any DVB-T2 TVs available yet. STBs are starting to come on stream only now with the implementation in the UK.

No DVB-T2 implemented in Ireland - but it's a "hot-button" topic with some posters on this forum:D

mrdtv · 14-12-2009 5:48pm

fat-tony wrote: »

I don't think there are any DVB-T2 TVs available yet. STBs are starting to come on stream only now with the implementation in the UK.

No DVB-T2 implemented in Ireland - but it's a "hot-button" topic with some posters on this forum:D

DVB-T2/Freesat TVs will be available at the end of 2010 from Panasonic and Sony: the TV of choice in Ireland perhaps?

championc · 14-12-2009 6:39pm

I thought that DVB-T = MPEG2 (UK Freeview) and that DVB-T2 = MPEG-4 (Irish DTT and UK Freeview HD) - No ?

C

mrdtv · 14-12-2009 6:44pm

championc wrote: »

I thought that DVB-T = MPEG2 (UK Freeview) and that DVB-T2 = MPEG-4 (Irish DTT and UK Freeview HD) - No ?

C

No.

DVB-T2 = UK Freeview HD

DVB-S2 = Sky HD + Freesat

Both are MPEG4 based services.

Freeview currently = MPEG2 DVB-T1

Irish DTT proposed = MPEG4 DVB-T1

So a T2/S2 receiver will also do T1/S1. Perfect solution.

championc · 14-12-2009 9:21pm

Can Freesat equiped TV's tune into any Channels from Astra at 28.6e (or any other satellites for that matter) ?

STB · 15-12-2009 10:38am

mrdtv wrote: »

DVB-T2/Freesat TVs will be available at the end of 2010 from Panasonic and Sony: the TV of choice in Ireland perhaps?

Probably not. They are availble now. DVB-T2 is irrelevant to Ireland in the short to medium term - next 5 years anyway.

Freesat TVs have been available on the market to work with Irish MPEG4 TV for over a year now although not advertised over here as such. DVB-T2 models will not be able to compete with the current prices of MPEG4 on DVBT and or combo models. DVB-T2 TVs or TV combos not available yet anyway.

Panasonic infact have launched 2 Freesat/DTT ranges for DVB-T1 in the last year and a quarter. The PZ81/LZD81 range and then the G10s. Both should be avoided like the plague as Panasonic have taken short cuts with the service types defined on DVB-T and have adopted a special UK profile mantra as a smokescreen. In short don’t buy one as it avoids headaches updating and overwriting the memory with an SD card.

The LG LF7700 does however tick all the boxes for HD Freesat and Irish DTT and are full HD (and have MHEG5).

LG 47LF7700 699 Richer Sounds (was 599 a few weeks back)
LG 42LF7700 599 Richer Sounds

There is also a 32 and 37. Shop around I’ve seen the 32 for as low as 399 STG in the UK.

OP please note that nearly all Freesat Combo TVs will not have a VHF analogue tuner. Believe it or not some people have bought these thinking they could use also use them for analogue NTL which defeats the purpose of course of a free TV combo anyway.

And just to correct a few misleading comments above.

Irish DTT - MPEG4 on DVB-T. MHEG5
Freesat Tuner - MPEG4 HD for HD channels - all other channels broadcast in MPEG2 which MPEG4 can also display.

You will therefore not need the DVB-T2 tuner (which only replicates the HD channels available on Satellite)

Don’t be misled.

UK will continue to broadcast MPEG2 on DVB-T for the 95% of stations for a long time to come alongside maybe up to 4 (but initially 2) MPEG4 HD stations on dvb-t2.

This technology is years down the road before it comes commercially and economically attractive to the British never mind the Irish who are using different technology and for which adequate technology is commercially and easily available on an affordable basis.

Mike 1972 · 15-12-2009 7:54pm

DVB-T2 is irrelevant to Ireland in the short to medium term - next 5 years anyway.

Even the parts of Ireland which can get "Freeview HD" signals from the UK ?

mrdtv · 15-12-2009 9:21pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Even the parts of Ireland which can get "Freeview HD" signals from the UK ?

Bullseye! Availability of BBCHD, ITVHD, 4HD and 5HD without cards or subs will be a key driver for this service. Most IDTV vendors in EU are preparing the transition to T2. Note that Freesat is unlikely to carry 4HD or 5HD for the foreseeable future due to the lack of space on Astra 2D with its tighter footprint. I would not be remotely surprised if Irish DTT had not been launched by this time next year for the usual reasons, despite the unwillingness to acknowledge the economic issues by some enthusiasts on this board. We will see...

Souriau · 19-12-2009 10:35pm

championc wrote: »

Can Freesat equiped TV's tune into any Channels from Astra at 28.6e (or any other satellites for that matter) ?

LG LF77** does have FreeSat and also you can scan other channels from Astra
Press FreeSat button will get you the FreeSat channels
Press FreeSat button again will get you non-FreeSat channles

Souriau · 19-12-2009 10:40pm

championc wrote: »

Hi all,

Are there TV's with standard Analog UHF / VHF tuners but then have BOTH DTT and Satelite Tuners Integrated ? I have an Old Sky box which I only use for Free-To-Air channels but would be interested in replacing my TV to one which has this and ALSO an MPEG-4 / 5 Tuner for the Irish DTT.

I read another posting by someone who mentioned a Panasonic model with an Ethernet connector - what is this used for ?

Cormac

LG LF77** does have
both analouge tuners, UHF and VHF,
Digital Tuner with MPEG-4 and MPEG-2 with MHEG5 for both UK and Irish DTT
Satellite Digital tuner, FreeSat and Non-FreeSat, both SD and HD

Souriau · 19-12-2009 10:41pm

championc wrote: »

I don't think I even go as big as a 42" let alone a 50" !! Anything in the 32 or 36's ? Or who are likely do to do them once the UK start producing sets with MPEG-4 tuners for Freeview-HD ?

And what are Ethernet connectors intended to be used for ?

C

Future use for BBC iPlayer

slegs · 20-12-2009 3:45pm

The latest Sony W5800 Freesat range should be perfect for Ireland. It is Sony's first foray into freesat and their MPEG4 TVs have been the most compatible (EPG, MHEG5 dig teletext) since the beginning.

Its DVB-T / DVB-S2(Freesat) with MPEG4 and MHEG5 and full 7 day EPG by the way.

Anyone got one? How is the EPG switching handled? Can they be merged?

championc · 23-12-2009 2:25pm

Souriau wrote: »

Future use for BBC iPlayer

Is it likely that all manufacturers will start incorporating Ethernet sockets on the UK TV's for this ?

I'm beginning to lean from Pana towards LG. Does the LG LF77** support DVB-T2 ? I don't think there's any point in me looking at a new Tele until I can somewhat futureproof myself. There's nothing wrong with my current set (CRT) so I'm in no immediate hurry to change

fat-tony · 23-12-2009 4:12pm

You can't really futureproof yourself in these times of rapid technological change. The best you can hope for is a window of about 6 -12 months before the "next big thing":)
That said, DVB-T2 is of no real use to you unless you live in a border area or on the East coast where there is a possibility of reception from High-Def UK DTT transmitters. RTENL are using DVB-T transmitters at the moment, so you won't need DVB-T2 until they decide to migrate. Ethernet sockets on the TV may be useful if you want to stream media to it from a home PC or media centre. The BBC i-player service is restricted to UK IP addresses at the moment, so it's not really usable in Ireland unless you have access to a proxy service. RTE might extend their web-based player service to MHEG at some time in the future. In any case it's a good way to use up your monthly bandwidth allowance;)

"STB's" posts are a good indicator of useful TV purchases. The magic words to look for are DVB-S2, DVB-T, MPEG4, MHEG5 if you are looking for a fully capable receiver.

But really, if you want to store programme material, you're going to be looking for a PVR of some sort. Then it is the device that needs to be as futureproof as you can make it. The display device, in that case, doesn't need any tuner - just the ability to display a high-definition picture via HDMI. You could even retain your old CRT assuming it has a SCART socket, for SD picture viewing. Problem is, a set-top box or PVR which does everything doesn't exist just right now:( I use a Humax Freesat PVR for satellite reception including HD and MHEG. I have a separate Mvision box which does HD satellite and MPEG4 DTT, but doesn't support MHEG.

Once the UK HD DTT rolls out (started this month), the box manufacturers will start producing combo STBs which will provide, hopefully, all the facilities needed. Then someone will announce super-HD and we'll all be looking for replacement technology again:D

championc · 23-12-2009 11:21pm

Many thanks for your update and thoughts. I am in Dublin (Ballinteer) and get my UK stations from Divis and have recently put a digital LNB on my old dish so coupled with an old Sky Box, I've plenty of options.

However, what do you think the chances are of Ireland jumping into DVB-T2 ? Is this the million dollar question ? It sounds like there could be many very disappointed people if it's decided to go for T2, especially with the launch of it now in the UK

L1011 · 23-12-2009 11:35pm

We've an agreed spec and T2 is not it. Its not going to happen for standard SD reception.

fat-tony · 24-12-2009 2:07am

+1 as regards T2. The DVB-T spec for Ireland does not include T2. The issue is more of an immediate problem in the UK, where terrestrial HD will only be available on T2 equipped STBs or receivers. Wait for that stink to die down first;)
As regards LNBs - they are not specifically "digital" in nature - they are part of the antenna system. Universal LNBs handle all signals in the analogue domain and just down convert the signal from satellite frequencies to 950 - 2000Mhz on the cable so that the receiver can demodulate it into the digital domain. The newer receivers used for digital reception are designed to work with universal LNBs, but general purpose FTA receivers have menu functions which will allow them to work with different LNBs. The same LNB can be used to receive analogue or digital satellite signals.

Souriau · 24-12-2009 2:25am

Would I be safe saying that there is no DVB-T2 iDTV MPEG-4 HD available yet?
So the LG LF7700 is DVB-T1 MPEG-4 HD?

T-Square · 24-12-2009 2:30am

slegs wrote: »

The latest Sony W5800 Freesat range should be perfect for Ireland. It is Sony's first foray into freesat and their MPEG4 TVs have been the most compatible (EPG, MHEG5 dig teletext) since the beginning.

Its DVB-T / DVB-S2(Freesat) with MPEG4 and MHEG5 and full 7 day EPG by the way.

Anyone got one? How is the EPG switching handled? Can they be merged?

I have a Sony Bravia KDL46W5810 and the built in hybrid tuner is excellent.
It picks up heaps of channels, several in HD. Also has an ether net port.

Dunno about this terrestrial lark, don't have the antenna, but maybe later.
Don't know what to buy to be honest, any recs?

scath · 24-12-2009 3:09am

I would say, that spec is over a year old now, designed for when Boxer were going to launch and T2 wasn't at the stage of receiver manufacture.

. So don't get hung up on it and see it as written in stone. That may be the situation at the transmission end and probably is. But One Vision if it signs on the dotted line may well decide for T2 boxes, given the timelines.

So don't get hung up on that spec. Its subject to change. Just like they decided on MPEG4, they are within their rights to change to T2 also since they've not yet publicly launched. And anyone who went out and bought equipment were advised there is no receivers decided spec at the moment by RTÉ NL.ie What they currently have is only an indication of what its at at the moment

That's what it says...so don't get too hung up on the spec...its subject to change, though certainly T1 is more likely, Onevision could decide on a T2 box spec and give RTÉ NL a contribution to put the T2 headend equipment in place. Arquiva have the expertise in the UK with DVB-T2. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility. As all official boxes for DTT here will be pay TV compliant, which helps the business case and RTÉ NL (from viable pay TV) they could go for T2 boxes. That's my point Chamionc is right, that they may not use it, but it makes upgrade easier and painless for the viewer.

its really betting stages now...if they'll go for T2 or T1 boxes, either could happen. T1 is more likely but the current spec is a pre-launch one. Developments technically have overtaken that spec judgement, which may not have been foreseen, at that time Boxer were to launch in 2009 so that spec is appropriate to boxer. If you look at the pdf brochure on aerials for it, it mentions Boxer.

This is now 2010, T2 equipment will be available by the time One Vision if they do, sign with the BAI, so that spec can be changed as its pre-launch. So place your bets lads, but don't get hung up on the 2008 spec, written when T2 wasn't finalised.

championc · 24-12-2009 9:54am

Hi Scath,

That's exactly what I was thinking. It would possibly sound like we might end up with a mixture of T1 and T2 services so especially since, as you say, nothing is officially launched whereas as soon as something IS launched, there's no going back. Obviously, nothing might appear in T2 for a few years but the providers could at least have the option open to them.

C

Souriau · 24-12-2009 3:19pm

Now that the DVB-T2 spec is set by the UK, sure the Irish spec would also go that way so it is up and ready for T2 and backward compatable with T1 MPEG-4 and MPEG-2, it would leave a suitable HD transmission ready for the settop boxes to reveived them without the viewer have to buy another settop box.
I know technology change so much that you can not futureproof it but at lease it is the latest spec of DVB-T
At the moment with Freeview from Divis in Belfast the transmission mode are

Mux 1 = 16QAM 3/4 2k DVB-T ch.29 Operator BBC A
Mux 2 = 64QAM 2/3 2k DVB-T ch.33 Operator D3&4
Mux A = 64QAM 2/3 2k DVB-T ch.23 Operator SDN
Mux B = 16QAM 3/4 2k DVB-T ch.26 Operator BBC B
Mux C = 16QAM 3/4 2k DVB-T ch.48 Operator Arqiva A
Mux D = 16QAM 3/4 2k DVB-T ch.34 Operator Arqiva B

Change over in 2012 will be
Mux 1 = 64QAM 2/3 8k DVB-T ch.27 Operator BBC A
Mux 2 = 64QAM 2/3 8k DVB-T ch.21 Operator D3&4
Mux A = 64QAM 2/3 8k DVB-T ch.23 Operator SDN
Mux B = discontuine, change to Mux HD
Mux C = 64QAM 2/3 8k DVB-T ch.26 Operator Arqiva A
Mux D = 64QAM 2/3 8k DVB-T ch.29 Operator Arqiva B
Mux HD = 256QAM 2/3 32k DVB-T2 ch.24 Operator BBC B

championc · 24-12-2009 5:36pm

Thanks Souriau

As a matter of interest, do you know what will be using
Mux D = 64QAM 2/3 8k DVB-T ch.29 Operator Arqiva B
Given that this is RTE1 UHF freq from Three Rock, what is the effect of a stronger UHF Analog frequency meeting a Digital one - could a digital TV tuner ignore the analog signals or would the Analog one block all digital signal ?

Sorry if it's a daft question for those in the know

slegs · 24-12-2009 10:22pm

T-Square wrote: »

I have a Sony Bravia KDL46W5810 and the built in hybrid tuner is excellent.
It picks up heaps of channels, several in HD. Also has an ether net port.

Dunno about this terrestrial lark, don't have the antenna, but maybe later.
Don't know what to buy to be honest, any recs?

Depends on where you are. If in Dublin then a coat hanger or rabbits ears may be enough

cnocbui · 26-12-2009 11:29am

Why would anyone think that there is even the faintest chance of T2 deployment if the cost of deploying T1 is so horrendous it wont be implemented even a year after it was supposed to have been? I would think there is a very good chance we still wont even have T1 even two years from now, given the total shambles that has transpired.

scath · 26-12-2009 1:53pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Why would anyone think that there is even the faintest chance of T2 deployment if the cost of deploying T1 is so horrendous it wont be implemented even a year after it was supposed to have been? I would think there is a very good chance we still wont even have T1 even two years from now, given the total shambles that has transpired.

I'm not saying T2 will necessarily be deployed at the transmission end. But it could be at the stb end. That answer depends on One Vision. I guess the chances are probably slim because One Vision may not want to spend more than necessary at this point. But it is possible if they want to, the equipment is now there and it would take the same time between sign and launch as procuring the boxes to upgrade masts.

Judging by the latest article, different types of guarantees could overcome the problem. I think the chances are good that we'll see launch by November 2010.

I think it looks like Eircom are eager for DTT and I've no doubt they'll want to move into the project canvas idea of IPTV over the TV set aswell. Its a triple play driver. If they don't then they're going to be weak in the market and I suspect UPC would be more than happy to take the license via Easy TV and tie up the market versus Sky. I'm sure Eircom know that & I expect that they'll sign. They also have a new parent with the money aswell so they couldn't be in a fresher shape to invest

Sponge Bob · 26-12-2009 3:12pm

I think a lot of it will be made up as we go along . RTE have the world cup in 2010 and they COULD give us a DVB-T1 HD feed and keep that going for the All Ireland as well. They will have enough transponders to do this whether Onevision launch or not.

The alternative is to abandon the airspace to the BBC/Freesat/SKY platforms which would be dreadfully shortsighted and them picking up the HD inbound feeds and with the core network out to the transmitters live since November .They can launch the SD fully and an 'experimental' HD network with it on one of the other 3 transponders. So what if Dunphy HD looks dreadful

I am inclining towards an April/May 2010 launch now, irrespective of whether eircom accept the licence or not and largely because RTE/UPC are next up to be offered the licence if not.

TV's with DVB-T2 (DTT) AND Satellite Tuners

Comments