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Do you believe in UFOs & flying saucers ?

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    #152
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    randd1 wrote: »
    The bigger question is, do we want to intelligent aliens to know we're here?

    Being likely more advanced than us, they might view us as beneath them and as little more than exotic meat, á la the Kelpians in Star Trek Discovery.

    Surely they would have done this already?

    We are only getting more advanced.


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    #153
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Wibbs wrote: »
    ..... TL;DR? we can't know until we find evidence of life elsewhere. That life could be almost always simple life. Intelligence could be very rare and intelligence like ours could be rarer again. There might be only one intelligent life form per galaxy, or none.

    Well, (Again, just my own thoughts) I think we will find that VERY simple, microscopic life is relatively common given the right conditions. I do believe they will find evidence of past life on Mars eventually.

    Regarding more advanced life, yeah, I believe that would be very rare. But simply given the numbers of potential planets out there in our galaxy alone, I think it unlikely that we are alone.

    When I was younger most astronomers believed that maybe one in a million stars would have had a solar system. Current thought now is that planets outnumber stars - Of course "Planets" would simply consist of objects orbiting a star, from boulders to gas giants and everything inbetween.


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    #154
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    In a world of smart phone proliferation, the number of UFO reports seems to be shrinking.

    You would expect that more people should be capturing UFOs.

    That being said, we are one planet in a universe of countless planets. Can we really be the only form of life?


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    #155
    To Alcohol
    Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭To Alcohol


    Saw one on the Naas to Kilcullen road one day. It was like a giant cigar in the sky. Could see green heads looking out the window. You might find this part hard to believe but one of them gave me the finger as they flew by. So yeah. I'm a believer.


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    #156
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭randd1


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    Surely they would have done this already?

    We are only getting more advanced.

    It would depend on how advanced they are. Some chimpanzee's wouldn't be too far off early Neanderthal's, and that's going back 300-400,000 years.

    Imagine a race several million (or even hundreds of million) years ahead of us technologically and in terms of society? We'd be little more than animals to them.

    And if humans are anything to go by, we certainly have no problems in eating any type of animal. Hell, there are humans that eat other humans, what's to put a hyper-advanced species from doing the same?

    Then again, they might have tried this already and we just don't taste good to them. We might end up being their pets instead.


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    #157
    ambro25
    Registered Users Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    In 40+ years, and with a very longstanding interest in all things flying and technological, I have only ever seen one instance of 'UFO', as in 'I've seen what I've seen and I can't explain it'. I suppose that makes me a believer by definition.

    3 green lights or 'blobs' flying in v-formation within a very low cloud cover at night (couldn't distinguish shape or anything, just lights, landing light-bright and large, but diffused by bottom cloud layer), too distant from each other to be a single aircraft (unless it was truly massive, much larger than an AN26/A380), flying about jet-fast (too fast to be prop-driven), which turned 'as one' (rigid formation-keeping) from ENE bearing to NNE bearing...

    ...in *complete* silence the entire time (incl. when they passed overhead), which is what made it the 'U' in UFO for me.

    We lived in the UK not far Doncaster at the time (early 2010s), and were well used to see jetliners on approach to that airport, even the heritage Vulcan flying around every now and then, besides the odd Eurofighter single or pair out of Coningsby, so I had good context for height/size/speed/noise reference.

    I get the earlier smartphone evidence comments, but in that instance I'd have barely had time to grab and unlock the phone, never mind start recording, by the time it/they passed overhead and were gone.

    Not enough of a believer to make the jump to aliens piloting the thing(s). But that was troubling.


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    #158
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    randd1 wrote: »
    It would depend on how advanced they are. Some chimpanzee's wouldn't be too far off early Neanderthal's, and that's going back 300-400,000 years.
    They're really not. Not even close. To compare hominids with chimps you'd have to go back millions of years.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #159
    dubstepper
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭dubstepper


    I don't believe that an advanced alien civilization would not be interested in humans. Yes they could have technology wildly beyond us but the fact that we have complicated societies with vast amount of written history and art, surely would mark us out as a species that is worth communicating with?

    Unless the universe is teeming with life we would have to be of interest to an advanced species, even if only in the way a child's thoughts are of interest to an adult.

    Maybe more likely is the great filter has not been passed.


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    #160
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    randd1 wrote: »
    It would depend on how advanced they are. Some chimpanzee's wouldn't be too far off early Neanderthal's, and that's going back 300-400,000 years.

    Imagine a race several million (or even hundreds of million) years ahead of us technologically and in terms of society? We'd be little more than animals to them.

    And if humans are anything to go by, we certainly have no problems in eating any type of animal. Hell, there are humans that eat other humans, what's to put a hyper-advanced species from doing the same?

    Then again, they might have tried this already and we just don't taste good to them. We might end up being their pets instead.

    You can't even get Irish aul lads to eat vegetables or beef steak that is not incinerated. Ask them to eat a slice of alien meat.


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    #161
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭randd1


    Wibbs wrote: »
    They're really not. Not even close. To compare hominids with chimps you'd have to go back millions of years.

    I meant technologically speaking.


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    #162
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    randd1 wrote: »
    I meant technologically speaking.
    Still no though Rand. While chimps use tools they modify them very little. So sticks to fish for termites and hammer and anvil stones, which is impressive enough though some members of the crow family do similar.

    So a few animals use tools, but Hominids stand out because we made tools to make other tools. That's a huge step and we were making shaped for purpose tools well over two million years ago and 3-400,000 years ago had bifacially worked hand axes, scrapers, cleavers, blades, spear points and awls which require planning and skill to produce and teach others and they were working extensively with wood and leather and other materials, never mind command of fire. We had already started to externalise our evolution a million years plus ago, something no other animal has ever done.

    This is 500,000 plus years ago.

    main-image

    No chimp would even know what to do with that never mind make it. Even the picture above would make no sense to one. In fairness it is easy to forget just how different we are as an animal. Much of it down to the opposite swing away from the old notion that we were lords above the beasts to "we're just another animal", but we are very much the outlier in the natural world.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #163
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    bangkok wrote: »
    or maybe they put us here and come every so often to observe

    Or they didn’t and don’t.


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    #164
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    I don't think its a case of believing anymore. There was actual footage released by the US government.


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    #165
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    Ipso wrote: »
    Or they didn’t and don’t.

    they def visit imo. too many credible stories


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    #166
    dubstepper
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭dubstepper


    When you think about it, an alien species would need to develop around a star. The nearest to us, traveling near the speed of light, would be a 4.3 year journey. Extremely unlikely you would undertake something like that, if it was even possible, and not make yourself known. Also for those travelers if they returned home after 9 years traveling near the speed of light their families would be something like 70 years older. Again unlikely to do this without some purpose beyond scaring some yokel.


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    #167
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    dubstepper wrote: »
    When you think about it, an alien species would need to develop around a star. The nearest to us, traveling near the speed of light, would be a 4.3 year journey. Extremely unlikely you would undertake something like that, if it was even possible, and not make yourself known. Also for those travelers if they returned home after 9 years traveling near the speed of light their families would be something like 70 years older. Again unlikely to do this without some purpose beyond scaring some yokel.

    i highly doubt they travel like that, im sure they can bend time and space and use worm holes to pop wherever they want to ant any given time. basically like getting 2 points on a piece of paper, folding the 2 points of paper together and punching a way through


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    #168
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    TheIrishGrover wrote: »
    Do I believe in life on other planets? Yes. I believe there are many many worlds out there with intelligent life. And many worlds far far more advanced than we are.

    However, do I believe in aliens visiting Earth? No. I did as a kid but no. Our current understanding of the physics simply puts faster than light as impossible.

    That's not to say that tomorrow somebody could come out and say "oh wait, they forgot to carry a 1 here, yep.... Yep faster than light travel IS possible and REALLY easy!!!". I mean somebody could come out with a fundamental shift in our perception of the universe and physics but I'm not holding my breath.

    I do believe that we will find conclusive proof of extraterrestrial life in the next 20 years or so. It may be as simple as 100% conclusive evidence that bacteria existed millions of years ago on Mars or it may be atmospheric analysis of extra-solar planets. But I don't believe that an alien spaceship is going to land on the Whitehouse lawn....


    You beat me to the punch.


    The odds of there NOT being life somewhere in the universe are virtually nil. The closest star to our Solar System is Proxima Centauri and an Earth sized planet, Proxima B, within the habitable zone orbits Proxima Centauri. If there was an advanced civilization on Proxima B and they had the technology to travel at or near lightspeed it would take them 4.3 years to get to our Solar System. If they have perfected that technology then surely they would have long ago developed a caveman technology by comparison, i.e. radio wave transmission and should have been blasting out messages all over the place for millenia.



    Getting back to the travel times. If they only have the technology to travel as fast as Voyager 1 (17 Km per second) the time to get to Earth would be 76,000 years. If water is the basis of life you're going to need to pack a lot of it for a journey of that length.


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    #169
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    In a world of smart phone proliferation, the number of UFO reports seems to be shrinking.

    You would expect that more people should be capturing UFOs.

    That being said, we are one planet in a universe of countless planets. Can we really be the only form of life?

    Expect more of the idea that UFOs are inter dimensional/spiritual instead of interstellar, there will probably be some woo to explain why we can't see them or photograph them.


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    #170
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Well that's the thing. 200 years ago flying machines to take people to distant continents in a few hours was thought both impossible and indeed laughable. Most people don't have good imaginations and can't allow themselves to imagine scenarios too far beyond what they know.



    I do think that there must be at least microbes os some sort of plant in the sub surface seas on the moons of the gas giants and I've no doubt there was once microbes on mars.




    Something that's always baffled me is how long it took us to take to the skies. Forget about the internal combustion engine. That took a while to develop and a lot of the physics and chemistry were still evolving at the time. But we were seafaring with sails and oars and rudders for millenia. Take a look at the hang-glider. What could be simpler? It has no moving parts and the bow and arrow or church bell or windmill is a space-age technology by comparison.


    How come people weren't floating around the friggin' skies in hang-gliders and para-gliders since Christ was a child?


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    #171
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    dubstepper wrote: »
    When you think about it, an alien species would need to develop around a star. The nearest to us, traveling near the speed of light, would be a 4.3 year journey. Extremely unlikely you would undertake something like that, if it was even possible, and not make yourself known. Also for those travelers if they returned home after 9 years traveling near the speed of light their families would be something like 70 years older. Again unlikely to do this without some purpose beyond scaring some yokel.

    The families would be 9 Earth years older and the traveler would be the same age as when they left.

    Given that the amount of energy required to push a vehicle at such a speed would be so high and the risk of impacts from microscopic objects at that speed would cause quite the boom, it's likely such a journey would only be possible by some alternative means, some sort of manipulation of space or bending of the rules of physics perhaps.

    Meawhile on Earth the Orion project promised to deliver a spacecraft propulsion system capable of 5% light speed with existing technology, an automated mission from Earth could reach Proxima Centuri B in 90years, which isn't a lot really in the scheme of things, we'd probably get at least decent pictures within our lifetimes and the next generation would know what the nearest star system looked like.

    Of course there's an outdated treaty against nuclear tech in space for some reason, and there's no profit in it really, just knowledge to be gained and our current age of ignorance doesn't value such things.


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    #172
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    TheIrishGrover wrote: »
    Do I believe in life on other planets? Yes. I believe there are many many worlds out there with intelligent life. And many worlds far far more advanced than we are.

    Why does practically everyone imagine an alien life form, as being more intelligent that us humans?

    Isn't it just as plausible, if such aliens do exist, that they could be less intelligent than us or perhaps just on par with us in terms of advancement?

    I think it's quite possible, that we could discover life on another planet in the next 100 years... but we may have to help these aliens to reach our level of intelligence and expertise.


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    #173
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Something that's always baffled me is how long it took us to take to the skies. Forget about the internal combustion engine. That took a while to develop and a lot of the physics and chemistry were still evolving at the time. But we were seafaring with sails and oars and rudders for millenia. Take a look at the hang-glider. What could be simpler? It has no moving parts and the bow and arrow or church bell or windmill is a space-age technology by comparison.


    How come people weren't floating around the friggin' skies in hang-gliders and para-gliders since Christ was a child?

    Leonardo DaVinci designed such a device from observing how bats fly (they have to take off from some height). I think the key hang up was; the carbon fibre lightweight frame of such modern devices wasn't around at the time. A timber framed glider would either be to heavy or would break from the weight of a person if the sections were thin enough (light enough) to fly.

    If Renaissance Europeans had access to bamboo in plentiful amounts, I think they would have developed gliders at that time. Assuming a practical military or transport application could be found for them. Asian cultures had not developed glass at that point making telescopes and therefore exploration by navigating the stars impractical.


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    #174
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Why does practically everyone imagine an alien life form, as being more intelligent that us humans?

    Isn't it just as plausible, if such aliens do exist, that they could be less intelligent than us or perhaps just on par with us in terms of advancement?

    I think it's quite possible, that we could discover life on another planet in the next 100 years... but we may have to help these aliens to reach our level of intelligence and expertise.

    This is something else to consider, if we were to land on proxima century B and discover a species that was just about to discover electricity, we could do great damage to their development. They could view the experience in a religious context and start worshiping any probe that lands and have wars over access.


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    #175
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,625 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWWe3AuGb8c


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    #176
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,977 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    So fake its untrue.
    Do people actually believe these things?


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    #177
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    bangkok wrote: »
    they def visit imo. too many credible stories


    Like what?


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    #178
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,977 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Ipso wrote: »
    Expect more of the idea that UFOs are inter dimensional/spiritual instead of interstellar, there will probably be some woo to explain why we can't see them or photograph them.

    Like ghosts.

    Or else, like ghosts, they just don't exist?


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    #179
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,625 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONxpNKFog64


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    #180
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Like what?

    1976 Tehran

    Valentich disapperance

    Rendelsham forrest incident

    Japan Air lines flight incident

    Varginha incident Brazil

    Shag Harbour incident

    Phoneix Lights

    Roswell

    Travis Walton

    O Hare International airport incident


    so many more incidents they are just off the top of my head


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    #181
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Leonardo DaVinci designed such a device from observing how bats fly (they have to take off from some height). I think the key hang up was; the carbon fibre lightweight frame of such modern devices wasn't around at the time. A timber framed glider would either be to heavy or would break from the weight of a person if the sections were thin enough (light enough) to fly.

    If Renaissance Europeans had access to bamboo in plentiful amounts, I think they would have developed gliders at that time. Assuming a practical military or transport application could be found for them. Asian cultures had not developed glass at that point making telescopes and therefore exploration by navigating the stars impractical.


    And the para-glider that doesn't have a frame, just a canopy from which is suspended a fabric seat that you park your arse in and float about the hillside?


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