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    #62
    The Shocking Truth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭The Shocking Truth


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    'maybe you're wife won't mind, maybe she'll believe you only wanted the "girlfriend experience"...'

    now, I don't know, but I don't think id be using that line if i was trying to explain it to the wife
    Her reply would be "what's wrong with the wife experience?".


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    #63
    NewRed2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 999 ✭✭✭NewRed2


    I think it's really good that these ads are aired and it's a horrible disgusting industry. But I can see the point about them being aired early in the day when there could be kids listening.


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    #64
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    So, if it's 1000 women a day, how long has this gone on for?
    If it starts from our current population today it'll only be 6.6 ish years before every woman is trafficked. Given the stats are old we can be sure that it's less than that.


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    #65
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Presumably there are some women who enter prostitution willingly, the problem is there’s no way of knowing when you go to one whether he or she is willing or has been trafficked/ coerced.

    And is a few minutes of sexual gratification worth that risk?

    It’s a bit like people who take coke on nights out but refuse to acknowledge the connection between that and gangland crime.


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    #66
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,625 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I heard those ads on Radio too, doesn't it mention something about Brussels in AD/?/////??

    Ironically prostitution is legal in Brussels. I mean of course its legal there, all those politicians are using high class escorts.So it's a bit ironic how Brussels push these change of laws, but of course it will never actually happen in Brussels itself.

    Sex trafficking of course is wrong, but it seems all the independent Escorts are fighting daily for their rights to work and work legally.


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    #67
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    GarIT wrote: »
    They don't love or dream of working in Aldi or Lidl either but they do it. The good looking ones can chose their clients and set very high prices. I know one girl, from Kildare who's career is now to travel the world and sunbathe on yachts owned by rich men. There is likely more expected of her but she doesn't make that public.

    You claim to know a load of happy hookers in this thread and transsexual women with a penis in another thread. You sure you aren’t a character from a Bukowski short story?


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    #68
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Presumably there are some women who enter prostitution willingly, the problem is there’s no way of knowing when you go to one whether he or she is willing or has been trafficked/ coerced.

    And is a few minutes of sexual gratification worth that risk?

    It’s a bit like people who take coke on nights out but refuse to acknowledge the connection between that and gangland crime.

    If it was legalized and regulated with proper protections for the sex workers them you would.

    The problems mainly arise as a result of criminalisation, much in the same way as they do with drugs.


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    #69
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    You claim to know a load of happy hookers in this thread and transsexual women with a penis in another thread. You sure you aren’t a character from a Bukowski short story?


    I just associate with younger alternate folks, and as I said earlier in this thread the kink community which unsurprisingly has a large overlap with the LGBT community.


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    #70
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    If it was legalized and regulated with proper protections for the sex workers them you would.

    The problems mainly arise as a result of criminalisation, much in the same way as they do with drugs.

    I used to think that too, until I found out that Germany (where prostitution is legal) still has huge problems with sex trafficking.

    The only real solution is to reduce demand (and yes, that is a plausible idea - you won’t ever eradicate demand but it is possible to reduce it)


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    #71
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    yosser hughes wrote: »
    I think you are all missing the point. I agree with you that it is unlikely these girls enjoy what they're doing or 'dreamed' if it as a career. Of course not.

    The real argument is, whether they are making a calculated financial decision choosing to do so.
    You seem to by implying that they have no choice.

    The vast majority of women who work in prostitution are trafficked into the country from piss poor countries like Moldova and Bulgaria. Here they are put up in apartments by their pimps (usually gypsy crime gangs) and forced to have sex up to 15 times a day with punters. They have absolutely no choice in this. It’s disgusting, depressing, and seedy. There’s nothing liberal, modern, or erotic about it.

    This uncomfortable truth makes some men very angry.


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    #72
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,859 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    The vast majority of women who work in prostitution are trafficked into the country from piss poor countries like Moldova and Bulgaria. Here they are put up in apartments by their pimps (usually gypsy crime gangs) and forced to have sex up to 15 times a day with punters. They have absolutely no choice in this. It’s disgusting, depressing, and seedy. There’s nothing liberal, modern, or erotic about it.

    This uncomfortable truth makes some men very angry.

    This.

    It's easier not to know.


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    #73
    str8talkingguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭str8talkingguy


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    The vast majority of women who work in prostitution are trafficked into the country from piss poor countries like Moldova and Bulgaria. Here they are put up in apartments by their pimps (usually gypsy crime gangs) and forced to have sex up to 15 times a day with punters. They have absolutely no choice in this. It’s disgusting, depressing, and seedy. There’s nothing liberal, modern, or erotic about it.

    This uncomfortable truth makes some men very angry.

    I agree this goes on,but there is a large amount who choose this line of work as it gives them independence and freedom from they money they earn,everyone has got to eat.

    It doesn't make it right either because a lifetime of acting like an object and being treated like an object eventually see themselves as objects and once their beauty goes,they don't see themselves as having much worth.

    Society and porn culture has commercialized women more than ever before,i sympathize with people like this trying to stop it but its like trying to stop poverty and trying to have equality for everyone,seems like its a losing battle getting worse and worse and often the women and girls involved are willing doing it for the freedoms their earnings give them,and lots enjoy the lifestyle and what it brings them in the short term but in the long term it rarely brings happiness.

    Its almost a case of don't hate the players hate the game,because lots of independent women want as many men as possible coming in that swinging door to see them profits surge.


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    #74
    The Shocking Truth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭The Shocking Truth


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    The vast majority of women who work in prostitution are trafficked into the country from piss poor countries like Moldova and Bulgaria. Here they are put up in apartments by their pimps (usually gypsy crime gangs) and forced to have sex up to 15 times a day with punters. They have absolutely no choice in this. It’s disgusting, depressing, and seedy. There’s nothing liberal, modern, or erotic about it.

    This uncomfortable truth makes some men very angry.
    I can not really understand what sort of leverage these pimps have over such women? I can also not understand why a woman would need a pimp. What can he offer her. She can just advertise herself.


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    #75
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,859 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    The Shocking Truth wrote: »
    I can also not understand why a woman would need a pimp. What can he offer her. She can just advertise herself.

    These are criminals we are talking about, not someone choosing to recruit a pimp by choice . The women have no choice. Passed around like commodities. Debts, family debts, drug dependencies, fear, threats. I met one such woman recently and Johnny's description above is spot on.


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    #76
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The Shocking Truth wrote: »
    I can not really understand what sort of leverage these pimps have over such women? I can also not understand why a woman would need a pimp. What can he offer her. She can just advertise herself.


    Most women who end up in prostitution are alone in a desperate financial place or homeless.

    If she is young has no parents or home etc..he can give her a roof over her head food etc.

    The girls think he is going to stop them getting raped or murdered. He probably isn't though.

    Pimps talk women into prostitution. They recruit women ..most women don't go looking for pimps. Pimps look for them.

    And a lot of pimps are madams.


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    #77
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Discodog wrote: »
    It also states that it's a lie to believe that women do this by choice. The ad should be banned for not being truthful.

    From their website:

    Every day, all across the island of Ireland, up to 1000 vulnerable woman are trafficked and forced into prostitution

    So it could be 1 or 1000.

    So they could actually say "every year ip to 365000 across the island of Ireland are trafficked and forced into prostitution " but that doesn't sound believable


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    #78
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,859 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

    And a lot of pimps are madams.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/vice-madam-rong-chen-who-bullied-women-into-prostitution-bids-to-avoid-deportation-to-china-30088714.html

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nigerian-gangs-trafficking-children-into-ireland-for-sex-897094.html


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    #79
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    The Shocking Truth wrote: »
    I can not really understand what sort of leverage these pimps have over such women? I can also not understand why a woman would need a pimp. What can he offer her. She can just advertise herself.

    Often women are trafficked in illegally having been told they’ll work as cleaners or in admin. Then their pimp keeps them under tight reign, using violence and their illegal status along with language barriers and lack of supports in the country to keep them under their control.


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    #80
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    If only there was some way to learn from the mistakes of other countries and legalise, regulate and look after the interests of women and men who might decide to become escorts, but instead its easier to brush it under the carpet and make criminals out of innocent men


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    #81
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Still waters wrote: »
    If only there was some way to learn from the mistakes of other countries and legalise, regulate and look after the interests of women and men who might decide to become escorts, but instead its easier to brush it under the carpet and make criminals out of innocent men

    A man who is paying a pimp to have sex with an illegally trafficked woman is not innocent.

    And as pointed out above, legalisation hasn’t ended sex trafficking in other countries.


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    #82
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    KiKi III wrote: »
    A man who is paying a pimp to have sex with an illegally trafficked woman is not innocent.

    And as pointed out above, legalisation hasn’t ended sex trafficking in other countries.

    So we make the mistakes of other countries, they would be innocent if we brought in correct measures, laws and regulations to benefit women and men who wish to go into the industry, making criminals out of ordinary men because legislators take the easy way out and make it illegal, simply saying "it hasn't worked in other countries" isnt good enough, there's a reason it's known as the oldest profession in the world


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    #83
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Human trafficking is probably the #1 most evil act human beings are capable of IMHO, but I don't subscribe to the idea that there aren't those that choose to have sex for money,

    It's been a good while since i checked, but look up 'irish escorts' or escort ireland, or whatever it's called and you'd see mostly foreigners, eastern european, south american, here for a few weeks, a month.
    It'll give the dates they are available, check a few weeks later, a whole different set of girls.

    Are these 'trafficked', or are they 'on tour'?


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    #84
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Still waters wrote: »
    So we make the mistakes of other countries, they would be innocent if we brought in correct measures, laws and regulations to benefit women and men who wish to go into the industry, making criminals out of ordinary men because legislators take the easy way out and make it illegal, simply saying "it hasn't worked in other countries" isnt good enough, there's a reason it's known as the oldest profession in the world

    If you read back your posts, it’s clear you’re far more concerned about the men who want to visit prostitutes and doing right by them than women who are trafficked into the country and forced to work as prostitutes.

    You should have a think about that, and try and extend your compassion to the women whose lives are destroyed in this process so “innocent men” can achieve sexual gratification.


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    #85
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    KiKi III wrote: »
    If you read back your posts, it’s clear you’re far more concerned about the men who want to visit prostitutes and doing right by them than women who are trafficked into the country and forced to work as prostitutes.

    You should have a think about that, and try and extend your compassion to the women whose lives are destroyed in this process so “innocent men” can achieve sexual gratification.

    Ive also showed my concern for the escorts involved by my support for stricter laws and regulations for the industry, there are no winners in trying to hide it with limp wristed laws that are nearly unenforceable, learn from other failed policies and set up a proper body to look after the rights of sex workers. Can you come up with any links that say the lives of trafficked escorts have changed since the laws came in or have they only driven it further underground.

    Women have been selling sex and men buying it since civilisation began, to try and ban it now seems like plugging the dam with chewing gum


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    #86
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Still waters wrote: »
    Ive also showed my concern for the escorts involved by my support for stricter laws and regulations for the industry, there are no winners in trying to hide it with limp wristed laws that are nearly unenforceable, learn from other failed policies and set up a proper body to look after the rights of sex workers. Can you come up with any links that say the lives of trafficked escorts have changed since the laws came in or have they only driven it further underground.

    Women have been selling sex and men buying it since civilisation began, to try and ban it now seems like plugging the dam with chewing gum

    As I said above, I think it’s impossible to eradicate it but the focus should be on reducing and discouraging it as much as possible. You’re using the term “escorts” to soften the image of a cruel industry and avoiding the term sex trafficking.

    If other European governments have failed to implement the right laws and strategies to legalise it in a way that protects women (and men), what makes you think the generally ineffectual irish government will get it right?


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    #87
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    KiKi III wrote: »
    As I said above, I think it’s impossible to eradicate it but the focus should be on reducing and discouraging it as much as possible. You’re using the term “escorts” to soften the image of a cruel industry and avoiding the term sex trafficking.

    If other European governments have failed to implement the right laws and strategies to legalise it in a way that protects women (and men), what makes you think the generally ineffectual irish government will get it right?

    Ok, ill call them hookers, how would you reduce the demand for one of the most basic needs of men ?

    And I'm sorry but saying other countries have failed do we will too is just lazy, still looking for a link to say the new laws have improved or reduced the numbers being forced into sex work


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    #88
    Vic_08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    KiKi III wrote: »
    As I said above, I think it’s impossible to eradicate it but the focus should be on reducing and discouraging it as much as possible. You’re using the term “escorts” to soften the image of a cruel industry and avoiding the term sex trafficking.

    If other European governments have failed to implement the right laws and strategies to legalise it in a way that protects women (and men), what makes you think the generally ineffectual irish government will get it right?

    It is not the laws that have failed, there are already laws against trafficking, imprisoning, coercing, forced sex, murder and all the other crimes that these crime gangs engage in.

    What has and is failing is the enforcement and punishment of the criminals. We, Ireland and western countries in general, have utterly failed to deal with organised crime gangs and the criminalisation of vices is a large part of that. It has created huge lucrative markets for anyone willing to commit crimes to get rich and there are no shortage of those people around.

    Passing stupid legislation that further criminalises sexual acts that we have neither the willingness or resources to enforce is pointless, worse than that it leads to the authorities going after soft targets to look like they are doing their job enforcing the law rather than the difficult targets who are the traffickers and slavers/pimps.

    Since the law changed the only people in Ireland imprisoned have been a few eastern european prostitutes, it has done NOTHING to help trafficking victims or discourage traffickers and the only thing it will do to people wanting to pay money for sex is to make them less likely to ask questions about the status of the prostitutes because either way the punters are commiting a crime.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/jailing-of-sex-workers-keeping-brothel-shows-law-not-fit-for-purpose-1.3921149


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    #89
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,859 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Still waters wrote: »
    Ok, ill call them hookers, how would you reduce the demand for one of the most basic needs of men ?

    Do you not think hookers is disrespectful ?

    Mens basic 'needs' should never be considered above anyones health, wellbeing and dignity.

    Is it too far a stretch to describe people working in the sex industry as 'sex workers'


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    #90
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Still waters wrote: »
    Ok, ill call them hookers, how would you reduce the demand for one of the most basic needs of men ?

    You’re only making it clearer and clearer that your respect for women who are sex workers is very limited.

    You’re still more concerned about men’s sex drives than women’s basic human rights.

    Most men can find sexual partners through the normal avenues of dating, friends with benefits, hook ups, relationships and marriage. In dry spells, they can masturbate.

    No man has a necessity for sex that requires a prostitute, it’s a desire - and real men can control their desires.

    Off topic: Are you a frequent customer of sex workers yourself?


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    #91
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Still waters wrote: »
    Ok, ill call them hookers, ?
    How about you call them people?


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