Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

  • 13-11-2013 4:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 16,191 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Not too keen on the wording of this, or the idea that if men saw a woman in trouble that we need to be reminded to help her.


«13456732

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭Festy


    Well, after seeing the rape thread in the LL I don't think I'd bothering go out of my way to help a woman in distress. You know, just in case I'd rape her or something :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭Newaglish


    In Ireland, nearly 8,000 women and over 3,000 children looked for support from a domestic violence support service in just one year. This is a horrific statistic.

    This means that at least 8,000 men were assaulting, raping or bullying women and children in that year.

    This is not just a horrific statistic. This is a horrific crime.

    From their website. What an epic fail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Not too keen on the wording of this, or the idea that if men saw a woman in trouble that we need to be reminded to help her.

    I was listening to it on the radio earlier and felt.....I don't know, not sure if insulted is the right word but it didn't sit right.

    It's a worthwhile cause etc. but there seemed to be too many assumptions on behalf of those of us that aren't abusers, bullies etc. for my liking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,330 ✭✭✭Gran Hermano


    Newaglish wrote: »
    From their website. What an epic fail.

    Great to read we no longer have domestic violence in lesbian relationships nor do we have women attacking/abusing men or children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    If it stops one assault won't it be worth it?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Great to read we no longer have domestic violence in lesbian relationships nor do we have women attacking/abusing men or children.

    Was the first thing my wife said : not all domestic abuse is by men (she did her thesis on female (sexual) abusers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,330 ✭✭✭Gran Hermano


    deccurley wrote: »
    If it stops one assault won't it be worth it?
    I would prefer if it did so without the misandry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Not too keen on the wording of this, or the idea that if men saw a woman in trouble that we need to be reminded to help her.

    I just had a look at the website. It appears to have its heart in the right place. However, once again, takes a superficial grasp at the problem.

    If men are acting out, or violent etc, then the men need help. Doesn't effectively calling an abuser a pussy make things worse? Doesn't it further the feelings do shame and alienation which lead to violence?

    Wouldn't a more productive and effective solution be to reach out to those who are in the throes of such turmoil they are behaving violently and abusively?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    I just had a look at the website. It appears to have its heart in the right place.

    I guess but they strike me as just another organisation that looks like they would be shocked and horrified if they discovered that about 50% of children grew up to be men.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    psinno wrote: »
    I guess but they strike me as just another organisation that looks like they would be shocked and horrified if they discovered that about 50% of children grew up to be men.

    It's true. Or that many parents are abused by their children.

    It's a myopic view of aggression.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭LOTD


    From don't be that guy or man up, it's like guys have to be reminded to do the right and honest thing, slogans don't stop or start serious crime. These initiatives and campaigns are well meaning but can come across as condensing.




  • There was a pretty discussion about this a while back - lots of people were very annoyed by it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    Newaglish wrote: »
    From their website. What an epic fail.

    They've changed it now to "7,797 women looked for safety from assault, rape or bullying by men in one year in Ireland.

    That means at least 7,797 men in our communities were assaulting, raping or bullying women".


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    They've changed it now to "7,797 women looked for safety from assault, rape or bullying by men in one year in Ireland.

    That means at least 7,797 men in our communities were assaulting, raping or bullying women".
    Or the same man has had 7,797 victims


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    ted1 wrote: »
    Or the same man has had 7,797 victims

    The numbers are assumed, not examined.

    It makes it look like unprofessional propeganda, even if the campaign is credible, they sabotaged themselves with that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,261 ✭✭✭source


    ted1 wrote: »
    Or the same man has had 7,797 victims

    He'd be bloody busy, that's 21.36 women a day to abuse, doesn't leave much time for anything else.

    Seriously though, getting mightily sick of these kinds of campaigns which seek to put a plaster over a serious issue and expect it to go away. Also the blinkered view that only men abuse being trotted out again really gets my goat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭LOTD


    The numbers are assumed, not examined.

    It makes it look like unprofessional propeganda, even if the campaign is credible, they sabotaged themselves with that.

    The number are assumed! that is incredibly reckless, it really undermines the organisation if that's the case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    LOTD wrote: »
    The number are assumed! that is incredibly reckless, it really undermines the organisation if that's the case.

    It maybe the case that 7000 women report abuse, but that does not necessarily equate to 7000 men abusing.

    Big old jump of a conclusion.

    I've seen this manipulative tactic on much activism sites and arguments from woman's activism and men's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Hmm, I don't think their hearts are in the right place. It's blantant that their framing abuse as man versus woman, and don't care if men are abused.

    Also, I could do without the neo-Chivalry:
    Most men celebrate and respect women

    I understand what they're trying to do, but it really toeing the line of chivalry.

    Also, some of the sighns of abuse are rather vague:
    • Seem afraid or anxious to please her husband/boyfriend partner.
    • Agree with everything he says and does and be afraid to correct him.
    • Talk about his temper, jealousy, anger or possessiveness.
    • Have bruises or injuries often, with the excuse of “accidents.”
    • Miss work, college, parties or family events without explanation.
    • Seem controlled and stopped from seeing family and friends.
    • Rarely go out in public without her husband/boyfriend/partner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    If the majority of victims of domestic violence are women, and the majority of those perpetrators are men, then I can see how this campaign could be justified. It definitely seems to be the generally accepted by an awful lot of people that this is the case, and I personally grew up with that assumption although I couldn't pinpoint exactly where I picked it up from. I suppose it's ingrained in our society that the fact that men are generally bigger and stronger than women means that they can't be victims of domestic violence.

    I looked at a couple of the studies concerning domestic violence in Ireland just to get an idea of how it is split by gender, and came across what looks like a contradiction.

    In this overview of Irish policy by the Child and Family Research Centre NUIG in 2008, it states that:

    "Although widely acknowledged that the majority of victims of domestic violence are women, it is important to recognise that victims can also be men. In a review of international gender-neutral research of domestic violence, McKeon and Kidd (2002) support this position"

    This seems to back up the assertion that the majority of victims of DV are women. Wanting to know more, I looked up the referenced article (McKeon and Kidd 2002), which states that:

    "With the exception of sexual violence which is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men against women, the results of these studies are fairly consistent in showing that, in approximately half of all intimate relationships where domestic violence occurred in the last year, both partners were mutually violent, with the remainder divided fairly equally between male-only violence and female-only violence
    ....
    In addition, both men and women are about equally likely to initiate domestic violence and seem to give broadly similar reasons for doing so.
    "


    Isn’t there a contradiction there or am I misunderstanding something?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭Henry9


    Standman wrote: »
    Isn’t there a contradiction there or am I misunderstanding something?
    Nope, you can get any answer you like in a 'study', depending on who you ask and what you ask them.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 213 ✭✭Davelarson


    Its the usual feminist man hating crap: 'All men are violent thugs who need to be reminded by Twitter and Upworthy not to rape and beat women.'

    Soon we'll be living in a society where boys will be brought up to believe they're bad just for being male.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭tommyboy2222


    Why have I never heard the term "Woman up" ?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 213 ✭✭Davelarson


    Why have I never heard the term "Woman up" ?

    Because women can only be victims.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Why have I never heard the term "Woman up" ?

    Because being a woman has no implicit power. Man up exploits the contrivance that being a man is by proving you are not in fact a woman.

    It means don't be a pussy. To be a woman is to be lame, ineffective, hysterical. It is ironically more offensive to women in a way, though being used on a campaign used to protect women.

    Of course this just follows a very bad habit in Ireland of taking American memes and using them without fully understanding to caring about their contexts ans then stupidly and clumsily applies them to Irish contexts.

    Man up. If you are drinking too much and lashing out, seek help.

    Woman up. Leave the husband that beats you.

    Woman up. Don't let your sons grow up into wife beaters.

    Parent up. Love your children.

    Children up. Love your parents. Sometimes love means picking up your toys.

    It should mean, be that wee bit better. Be brave. Take courage, whomever you are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange



    Of course this just follows a very bad habit in Ireland of taking American memes and using them without fully understanding to caring about their contexts ans then stupidly and clumsily applies them to Irish contexts.

    I don't really get this. Are you talking about the phrase or the use of it in a campaign related to violence against women?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    psinno wrote: »
    I don't really get this. Are you talking about the phrase or the use of it in a campaign related to violence against women?

    Both.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭ Juan Cold Invoice


    Saw an ad on the Luas over the weekend from this campaign.

    I completely dismissed it as I hate that fcuking phrase "Man Up". In my experience the only people that use it are thick, ignorant pricks.

    "Man up" is in the same vein as "big boys don't cry". Terrible rubbish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Both.

    The campaign isn't specific to Ireland. It is an American led campaign started about 5 years ago. The phrase doesn't strike me as particularly American.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Saw an ad on the Luas over the weekend from this campaign.

    I completely dismissed it as I hate that fcuking phrase "Man Up". In my experience the only people that use it are thick, ignorant pricks.

    "Man up" is in the same vein as "big boys don't cry". Terrible rubbish.

    If its any consolation I was told to man up when I complained about the lack of air conditioning on a bus this past summer. I'm still. To sure if the driver was being sarcastic.

    It basically means shut it and take it on the chin. Stop whining like a girl.


Advertisement