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Why do Irish people support English teams?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox



    But the Irish EPL supporters are particularly insincere in thier approach.
    Not only do they support a foreign club which they chose, But the chose the club who are winning/or have a good chance of winning.

    Absolute nonsense and insulting to real football fans. If a local team want supporters its there job to persuade people to support them and if there not able to do this then the team doesnt deserve support. Football fans also have other things to do with there lives. if a club cannot prove that there great for my community or provide good entertainment why should I bother. They cannot expect blind loyalty without giving something in return, if a fan is not getting enjoyment or a sense of community back then he should not be supporting his local team. If a fan of a foreign team is getting enjoyment then the foreign club are giving something back


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Rubbish. If say you grew up in Westport in Mayo (like me), wheres my 'local' LoI club? The nearest one ever has been Galway (50 miles away). The next nearest are 75 to 80 miles way (Sligo, Longford etc). Heres a map of showing a distribution of LoI clubs (not all are shown). The LoI is not relevant to many people who like soccer in this country. Thats not intended as a derogatory comment btw, but one based on geography.

    481970.png

    Well if there was enough of likeminded people like yourself with enough of interest a club could be formed to represent your area.
    That is how clubs are created.

    For example evergreen united in Kilkenny

    http://evergreenfc.ie/history/

    Or Wexfords Youths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wexford_F.C.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Why do the GAA have a television advertisement immediately after the Champions League final, or advertisements grouped around major soccer matches?
    "Why do Irish people support English teams?" has a whiff of Sinn Fein / GAA about it.

    The answer is it is better football.

    How has Sinn Fein got anything to with it that is really stretching things.
    Ironicaly a lot of the Sinn Fein voters you seem to be referring to say 'we' for Celtic that is just as bad as the Premier League 'we' brigades.
    Another form of delusion.
    As I said If I suddenly decided I wanted to support Holland instead of Ireland what would be said to me? I like the jerseys an emotional connection etc.
    The same argument people use for supporting clubs.

    I would hardly call myself a Sinn Fein supporter, but can you imagine the abuse I would get from the very same Irish Premier League Supporters if I wore an English jersey and cheered on England over Ireland?


    How many times in a pub when an EFA game is on where the Barman turns down the volume for 'God Save the Queen'.
    Then turns it back up again.
    It has very little to do with how people vote or do not vote, it is just the bizarre cognitive dissonance that Irish people have around soccer and the Premier League.
    It's bizarre and had been normalised.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    How many times in a pub when an EFA game is on where the Barman turns down the volume for 'God Save the Queen'.
    Then turns it back up again.

    What?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    I've never been in a pub for FA Cup final day but I have seen people over here give out yards on Facebook. ''Why are they playing that f*cking anthem, horrible''. Well pal, Manchester is in England and that's the anthem they use. It's the English cup final... their final, not yours.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Absolute nonsense and insulting to real football fans. If a local team want supporters its there job to persuade people to support them and if there not able to do this then the team doesnt deserve support. Football fans also have other things to do with there lives. if a club cannot prove that there great for my community or provide good entertainment why should I bother. They cannot expect blind loyalty without giving something in return, if a fan is not getting enjoyment or a sense of community back then he should not be supporting his local team. If a fan of a foreign team is getting enjoyment then the foreign club are giving something back

    How is it insulting to real football fans?
    Is it insulting because it is true?
    If they were real football fans and just loved the sport they would not care what level the team they call thier own is at.
    It always has to be the top european teams or the teams that are winning.

    The fans who it insulting to are the local fans of this big clubs, the atmosphere dies, people are there for the spectacle from all around the world.
    Cameras are out, it is a holiday.
    It forces locals to struggle to get tickets.
    Man City is a prime example how many Man City jerseys were seen around Ireland when they were in the third tier twenty years ago?
    When the chant was 'feed the Goat and he will score.'

    Yet the ironic thing is some of Irish Premier league fans of the more traditional top teams Liverpool/Man United/Arsenal have the gall to say that Man City are not a real club - it is oil money.

    But those same Arsenal/Man United/Liverpool Irish fans were attracted to thier club because of thier success and money!
    Some Irish Premier League supporters consider themselves real fans not like Man City Irish fans for example.

    It is really crazy the more I think about it.

    It sounds like you just want a 'shiny product' rather than an actual team for the love of the sport.
    I think that is insulting to real football fans.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    8-10 wrote: »
    What?

    When an English FA cup match is on the barman in a pub turns down the volume when God Save the Queen is on and puts it back up when it is finished.
    How many times have you seen that?
    Plus it is even funnier if the barman 'supports' a premier league team.
    It's mad really.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    When an English FA cup match is on the barman in a pub turns down the volume when God Save the Queen is on and puts it back up when it is finished.
    How many times have you seen that?

    Never in my life


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,381 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    How is it insulting to real football fans?
    Is it insulting because it is true?
    If they were real football fans and just loved the sport they would not care what level the team they call thier own is at.
    It always has to be the top european teams or the teams that are winning.

    Why do Bohemians have higher attendances when they are at top of the table?
    If Shelbourne get promoted back to Premier Division, should they insist only people who attended in Division One can get in?
    Should they turn away any new fans as insulting to real fans?

    Why even bother attending a Bohemians and Shelbourne, if they don't care about the level watch an even more local team like Home Farm or Fairview CY?

    Based on your model of real football fans, there should be an equal distribution of real fans according to how local the team is.
    Bohemians shouldn't have more fans than a team in the Leinster Senior League.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Why do Irish people support NFL teams?
    Why do Irish people watch and enjoy tennis and have favourite players such as Serena Williams or Rafa Nadal instead of James McGee (who I had to google if there was any Irish tennis players :o)?
    Why do Irish people watch Formula 1 and pick Mercedes over Jordan?
    Why do Irish people play cricket, and then chose to play for Englans?
    Why do Irish people watch NBA basketball and support the Chicago Bulls instead of Moycullen?
    Why do Irish people watch and enjoy golf, and have golfers such as Speith as thir favorite, rather than Rory McIlroy with his changing allegiance?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    If Everton played Bohemians in a European game, and you're from Phibsborough you would kinda be expected to be cheering for Bohs.
    If you are from Clontarf or Donegal, there'd be no expectations. If you are from Killybegs likely you'd be expected to cheer for Everton.

    But the fella from Phibsboro is statistically more likely to be an Everton supporter because they won the FA Cup in 1995 or something
    Players cannot simply pick and choose what country to play for out of all the countries in the world, they have to meet defined eligibility criteria.
    Once they have played a competitive match for a country as an adult, they are locked into that country for life.
    If they have eligibility to multiple countries, they have a choice as to which country to declare for. There is no transfer fee, no waiting for contract to expire. It is an entirely personal decision.
    Declan Rice could opt for England or Ireland, he couldn't opt for Netherlands. He currently plays for West Ham, he could in future play for Ajax or PSV.


    But if any player lives in a country continuously for five years regardless of any connection he can play for that country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules#Modern_changes

    FIFA article 7 (d)
    He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.



    If you were from Luxembourg, cheering on Netherlands would be more understandable, I guess because the country you'd be expected to cheer for, even if they are in same pyramid, aren't (even periodically) at the same competitive level as Netherlands. If ROI didn't quality for a finals competitions, cheering on Netherlands would also be totally understandable. But if Ireland are playing Netherlands in a playoff, it will be thought strange for an Irish person to want Netherlands to win. But it's a free country, you are free to do that and people are free to think that's a little strange.

    If you move to the Netherlands, live there for at least a year and pick up a slight Dutch accent, you'd probably be alright either way!

    Exactly, but it is not strange for an Irish person who never lived in England to cheer on an English club over his local club for example -
    A fella from Tallaght shouting for Liverpool against Shamrock Rovers.
    It is odd I think, that the fans have an unwritten rule at international leval and it is free for all at club level.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Some people just can't understand that you can't dictate what people choose to do in a free society and want to impose their view of what should be acceptable as unwritten rules that everybody should follow.

    We continually give reasons on this thread about why we support English teams, but seems more like we're being judged for doing so rather than helping the questioners understand the mentality.

    It's pretty cut and dry as I see it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why do Bohemians have higher attendances when they are at top of the table?
    If Shelbourne get promoted back to Premier Division, should they insist only people who attended in Division One can get in?
    Should they turn away any new fans as insulting to real fans?

    Why even bother attending a Bohemians and Shelbourne, if they don't care about the level watch an even more local team like Home Farm or Fairview CY?

    Based on your model of real football fans, there should be an equal distribution of real fans according to how local the team is.
    Bohemians shouldn't have more fans than a team in the Leinster Senior League.

    The Leinster senior league is actual Sunday league, not comparable. Its not an either or in that case either, you can support both Home Farm and Bohs if you want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    I love the "how could someone from mayo support a team from sligo/Galway" argument because equally as valid is "how could someone from Ireland support a team from England"

    The problem here is thanks to the GAA it would feel like your supporting a rival county but if you suppport a foreign team theres no rivalry. If someone from Mayo wants to follow a team in sligo/Galway theres nothing wrong with this but there not going to be supporting there own community. Most people in Ireland dont have a LOI club representing there community so therefore supporting your community is not relevant to most Irish people. To most Irish football fans following a foreign team is able to provide an enjoyable and rewarding experience that LOI cant match


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why do Bohemians have higher attendances when they are at top of the table?
    If Shelbourne get promoted back to Premier Division, should they insist only people who attended in Division One can get in?
    Should they turn away any new fans as insulting to real fans?

    Why even bother attending a Bohemians and Shelbourne, if they don't care about the level watch an even more local team like Home Farm or Fairview CY?

    Based on your model of real football fans, there should be an equal distribution of real fans according to how local the team is.
    Bohemians shouldn't have more fans than a team in the Leinster Senior League.

    They can support both as they are football fans and enjoy games Leinster Senior League, Bohs whoever.

    Example Stephen Ward.
    A fella from Portmarock might follow his career and support/follow the teams he plays for.
    Because Ward used to play for Portmarock in the Leinster Senior league, then the Portmarock fella follows Bohs/Wolves/Burnley etc as a result.

    That seems far more logical to me.
    But a lot of Irish Premier League league supporters just have thier Premier League top six team.
    That is the point I am making it is not a natural football supporter as an Irish Premier League supporter, it is not organic. The attraction is more based on prestige more than any connection.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Greyfox wrote: »
    The problem here is thanks to the GAA it would feel like your supporting a rival county but if you suppport a foreign team theres no rivalry. If someone from Mayo wants to follow a team in sligo/Galway theres nothing wrong with this but there not going to be supporting there own community. Most people in Ireland dont have a LOI club representing there community so therefore supporting your community is not relevant to most Irish people. To most Irish football fans following a foreign team is able to provide an enjoyable and rewarding experience that LOI cant match

    Personally I can’t understand how folk can watch loads of soccer matches that they have no emotional investment in. I understand that folk want to root for their team and are highly invested in it, and that in itself is a form of entertainment, but how do people sit down and watch the likes of Burnley v West Ham or Huddersfield v Southampton.

    Every now and again there are games which do entertain, the CL semi-finals for example, but 9 out of 10 soccer games on TV are incredibly boring.

    To me, the emperor has no clothes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    8-10 wrote: »
    Some people just can't understand that you can't dictate what people choose to do in a free society and want to impose their view of what should be acceptable as unwritten rules that everybody should follow.

    We continually give reasons on this thread about why we support English teams, but seems more like we're being judged for doing so rather than helping the questioners understand the mentality.

    It's pretty cut and dry as I see it.

    People are allowed disagree with you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Greyfox wrote: »
    The problem here is thanks to the GAA it would feel like your supporting a rival county but if you suppport a foreign team theres no rivalry. If someone from Mayo wants to follow a team in sligo/Galway theres nothing wrong with this but there not going to be supporting there own community. Most people in Ireland dont have a LOI club representing there community so therefore supporting your community is not relevant to most Irish people. To most Irish football fans following a foreign team is able to provide an enjoyable and rewarding experience that LOI cant match

    You could take literally every single point you made there and apply it equally to supporting an English team


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I've never been in a pub for FA Cup final day but I have seen people over here give out yards on Facebook. ''Why are they playing that f*cking anthem, horrible''. Well pal, Manchester is in England and that's the anthem they use. It's the English cup final... their final, not yours.
    You sound quite bitter and would probably make a good Everton fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,381 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    The Leinster senior league is actual Sunday league, not comparable. Its not an either or in that case either, you can support both Home Farm and Bohs if you want.

    If the level of the sport doesn't matter, you are being a prestige glory hunter by picking a LOI team over a Leinster Senior League team, unless the LOI's team ground is closer to you.
    If the level of the sport does matter, then someone picking Bohs over Home Farm, or Liverpool over Bohs, are comparable.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FitzShane wrote: »
    Why do Irish people support NFL teams?
    Why do Irish people watch and enjoy tennis and have favourite players such as Serena Williams or Rafa Nadal instead of James McGee (who I had to google if there was any Irish tennis players :o)?
    Why do Irish people watch Formula 1 and pick Mercedes over Jordan?
    Why do Irish people play cricket, and then chose to play for Englans?
    Why do Irish people watch NBA basketball and support the Chicago Bulls instead of Moycullen?
    Why do Irish people watch and enjoy golf, and have golfers such as Speith as thir favorite, rather than Rory McIlroy with his changing allegiance?

    By NFL you mean Ameircan football I don't follow it.
    I am not into Tennis and don't follow that at all - are the players representing a place or themselves?
    I know Davis Cup is the only international tennis tournament barring the Olympics

    Formula one. I can remember following it a bit when Eddie Jordan was there with Eddie Irivine. Because they were felas from the island of Ireland.
    And it was the first time I ever heard of Ireland spoken of in a formula one context.
    There was anthems at the end if there was a podium finish.
    But I lost interest fairly quickly when Eddie Jordan sold his team.
    I have not watched formula one since I think.
    So it is proven I was not really a fan of the sport at all, it was just a curiosity for me while Jordan was there.

    I don't follow Cricket but I know the Eoin Morgan move was a 'career move' he said so himself.

    Back in the 80's there was a basketball craze in Ireland - NBA was on channel 4.
    But there was great interest in local teams Ballina Stephenites and Killester among the Basketball fraternity.

    I am not really into Golf but again - in most competitions don't golfers represent themselves rather than thier country?
    It is not a place they represent not matter how often the News readers say 'best of the Irish'
    There are no anthems at the end when they lift the cup.

    There is no 'place' element in golf Except Ryder Cup/Olympics (Mcllroy controversy)

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,381 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    But if any player lives in a country continuously for five years regardless of any connection he can play for that country.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules#Modern_changes
    FIFA article 7 (d)
    He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.

    Could Declan Rice play for The Netherlands in their next game?
    Why not?

    Could he play for Ajax in their next game, if they agreed terms and transfer fee with West Ham?
    Why?
    See how club football and international football are different?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    If the level of the sport doesn't matter, you are being a prestige glory hunter by picking a LOI team over a Leinster Senior League team, unless the LOI's team ground is closer to you.
    If the level of the sport does matter, then someone picking Bohs over Home Farm, or Liverpool over Bohs, are comparable.

    No because 1. The leagues don't clash so, as you've been told numerous times, you can do both. And 2. You're comparing a Sunday league team to a national league outfit. If the LSL or other provincial equivalents were the 3rd tier of the LOI you'd have a point, but they're not so you may as well be saying if your local rugby club is closer than the RDS to you you can't support Leinster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    People are allowed disagree with you.

    By the way I know this is an aside.
    But I was told Bobby Sands supported Aston Villa (on this thread).
    So that was what the dirty protest was all about he wanted to wear a villa jersey in prison?

    What I want to know is did Sands only really start supporting Villa when they won the league? :D
    He died before the Euro Cup win.


    http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=50325.0


    A quote from that villa forum above -

    One of his contemporaries insides the H-Blocks Seanna Walsh -
    "I first met Bobby in January 1973 when we were in the same Cage and he had that cocky Belfast dander and a Rod Stewart haircut....(he was a) mate who enjoyed a bit of craic and slagging," Seanna joked that he was "the only person inside to support Aston Villa--God help him."

    He starved himself to death in May 1981 - so didn't live to see the AV lift the European Cup.

    I knew many 'bad boys' at the time in Belfast - the loyalists I mixed with tended to be Liverpool fans and an ex-IRA prisoner I knew supported Man City.






    There is no mention if he used the term 'we' when referring to Villa.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Could Declan Rice play for The Netherlands in their next game?
    Why not?

    Could he play for Ajax in their next game, if they agreed terms and transfer fee with West Ham?
    Why?
    See how club football and international football are different?

    That is fine from the playing sense, but there is still enormous freedom to change allegiance.

    But in the supporting sense I do not understand the difference.

    I am not allowed to support Holland over Ireland.

    Yet Rice can play for Ireland 3 times, switch to England.
    He could also have moved to Holland lived there for 5 years straight and played for them.

    But a Premier League Irish fan can randomly pick a team if they wish. no bother. No one bats an eyelid.
    Rice can do what he likes, there is a bit of tension.

    But I would be looked on as a 'head the ball' as an Dub if I supported Holland over Ireland.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    That is fine from the playing sense, but there is still enormous freedom to change allegiance.

    But in the supporting sense I do not understand the difference.

    I am not allowed to support Holland over Ireland.


    Yet Rice can play for Ireland 3 times, switch to England.
    He could also have moved to Holland lived there for 5 years straight and played for them.

    But a Premier League Irish fan can randomly pick a team if they wish. no bother. No one bats an eyelid.
    Rice can do what he likes, there is a bit of tension.

    But I would be looked on as a 'head the ball' as an Dub if I supported Holland over Ireland.

    says who?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,129 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Personally I can’t understand how folk can watch loads of soccer matches that they have no emotional investment in. I understand that folk want to root for their team and are highly invested in it, and that in itself is a form of entertainment, but how do people sit down and watch the likes of Burnley v West Ham or Huddersfield v Southampton.

    Every now and again there are games which do entertain, the CL semi-finals for example, but 9 out of 10 soccer games on TV are incredibly boring.

    To me, the emperor has no clothes.

    An Irish top six premier league fan would not watch these games unless he has money on it as an accumulator /has players in the game from his/her fantasy football team.
    They only care about the top of the table stuff.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    An Irish top six premier league fan would not watch these games unless he has money on it as an accumulator /has players in the game from his/her fantasy football team.
    They only care about the top of the table stuff.

    I do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I've never been in a pub for FA Cup final day but I have seen people over here give out yards on Facebook. ''Why are they playing that f*cking anthem, horrible''. Well pal, Manchester is in England and that's the anthem they use. It's the English cup final... their final, not yours.
    RobMc59 wrote: »
    You sound quite bitter and would probably make a good Everton fan:)

    What exactly sounds ''bitter'' in the post you quoted? Honestly baffled by that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    I think this thread just goes in circles.

    The reason Irish people follow foreign teams are numerous. For some it's been passed down from family, for some it was to fit in with friends but mostly it's because football in Ireland is seen as a TV program. It's to be watched on TV with the odd trip to watch it live (same goes for a lot of GAA supporters going to championship games only).

    Most people will tell you it's due to the quality on show, the same people will tell you they didn't care how Liverpool played or the standard of the final but just that they won the Champions League. People want to be associated with successful brands and teams in England are some of the most successful in the world.

    League of Ireland clubs need to focus on getting the passing punter through the door and not an us versus them mentality, Bohs are seeing good return on building links in the community and getting football fans (ones that are used to actually going to live sports) who are visiting Dublin to games. I believe Rovers are doing a deal that anyone on a Ryanair flight can buy a cheap ticket. This isn't a coincidence. In Ireland we don't have a large number of people that are used to going to watch sporting events live week in week out while our participant numbers are high by population.


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