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Tenant can't pay rent due to Covid

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Remember hes still building up arrears. I would reccomend following the process and waiting until further action is allowed again. No point in having a non paying tenant


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    these are not mutually exclusive groups of people. plenty of landlords are PAYE workers etc. Plenty of landlords will benefit from Covid targeted state assistance.

    Plenty of businesses are feeling the pain. Many cannot trade.

    Most landlords will be lucky and tenants will continue to pay, but some will be in the unfortunate position of being unable to move to evict.

    The effect is being felt in all strands of society. Putting on the poor mouth and begrudging those individuals and businesses who get state assistance hardly reflects well on you.

    You appear to be unable to understand my post.

    Landlords are business people, now facing a loss as the Government has told tenants that don't have to pay rent until next year.

    All other businesses are being compensated, but landlords are not. Why is that?

    I'm struggling to see how you are finding begrudgary anywhere in my post.
    Why would you feel the need to make things personal, saying that my post reflects poorly on me?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭meijin


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    All other businesses are being compensated, but landlords are not. Why is that?

    Because rent is unearned income.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    meijin wrote: »
    Because rent is unearned income.

    tell the bank that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭meijin


    imagine you take a loan from the bank, to buy shares, and expect steady dividends to pay off the loan...

    then expect government to help you out if the dividends stop coming?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    meijin wrote: »
    imagine you take a loan from the bank, to buy shares, and expect steady dividends to pay off the loan...

    then expect government to help you out if the dividends stop coming?

    true, but i suspect most landlords didnt get into this business, just to screw people over, landlords are critical in providing our accommodation needs, our housing and accommodation policies are so bad, theyre effectively failing both tenant and landlord


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭meijin


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    true, but i suspect most landlords didnt get into this business, just to screw people over, landlords are critical in providing our accommodation needs, our housing and accommodation policies are so bad, theyre effectively failing both tenant and landlord

    they got into this to make money, through investment of their capital

    not out of goodwill of their heart to help out the society with accommodation needs

    if they didn't buy the property, next person in the bidding process would maybe buy it cheaper to live in it


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭woejus


    meijin wrote: »
    they got into this to make money, through investment of their capital

    not out of goodwill of their heart to help out the society with accommodation needs

    if they didn't buy the property, next person in the bidding process would maybe buy it cheaper to live in it

    I thought you said it was "unearned" money?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    meijin wrote:
    they got into this to make money, through investment of their capital

    Of course they did, and I don't see a problem with this, they're also providing a critical need for society
    meijin wrote:
    not out of goodwill of their heart to help out the society with accommodation needs

    Again, of course
    meijin wrote:
    if they didn't buy the property, next person in the bidding process would maybe buy it cheaper to live in it

    Possible, but not absolute, we urgently need to implement polices that creates protective measures for all stakeholders, we ve been more or less doing the opposite


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    woejus wrote:
    I thought you said it was "unearned" money?

    Rent-seeking behaviour is unearned, but rent is generally earned, and earned hard


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭meijin


    woejus wrote: »
    I thought you said it was "unearned" money?

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unearnedincome.asp


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Rent-seeking behaviour is unearned, but rent is generally earned, and earned hard
    meijin wrote: »

    .....


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    meijin wrote: »
    imagine you take a loan from the bank, to buy shares, and expect steady dividends to pay off the loan...

    then expect government to help you out if the dividends stop coming?

    Dividends don't have to be furnished or maintained, have their tenants screened, have complaints from the neighbours sorted out, grass mowed etc. Their pipes never leak, their boiler never packs in and their windows don't get broke. Etc. Unearned my a$$.


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    meijin wrote: »
    imagine you take a loan from the bank, to buy shares, and expect steady dividends to pay off the loan...

    then expect government to help you out if the dividends stop coming?

    Imagine providing a service to someone, and then they say they can no longer afford it. Then expecting to keep receiving that service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    The chances of you getting the rent arrears is slim at best but id imagine you will never get that money back. You now cant evict him.

    Covid isn't going anywhere and if he is in the pub trade he is likely to find himself in and out of employment for possibly the next year. Ask yourself this? Can you afford to sub him for that long? can you afford to take less rent for a prolonged period of time?
    Im guessing no you cant.
    You need to engage with your bank asap. He needs to apply for social supports asap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    meijin wrote: »
    imagine you take a loan from the bank, to buy shares, and expect steady dividends to pay off the loan...

    then expect government to help you out if the dividends stop coming?

    I’m sure you have gotten the response you wanted when you said rental income is unearned.

    This is a rather simplistic analogy to put accross your viewpoint. It ignores the fact that the tenant is availing of a service provided by the owner without paying for it, and the government is now facilitating the rent arrears. Also, in relation to the example you used, the Government policy does not restrict the performance of the stock market as a whole, whereas it has with the rental market. So, while I agree with you that LL should not be compensated as there is inherent risk in renting, facilitating the op’s tenant to pay for one property while living rent free in another, is wrong.

    Op, like other posters, I believe you have little prospect to getting your unpaid rent, I think you should be focused on ensuring that you can remove the tenant at the earliest opportunity. Issue the rent arrears notice, open a dispute and prepare eviction notice so that it can be issued as soon as it is legal to do so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    The whole tenant situation and the OP trying to sort the welfare out for him. If the guy isn't working has an ex wife etc he's a big boy if he can't be bother putting time into getting this sorted its questionable the OP is doing himself credit working on this. Harsh but OP should give him notice ,his friends or family aren't paying his rent why should the landlord.

    It can cut both ways. In one tenancy I did all the paperwork for my landlord as he could not cope with it.

    It is in many ways a partnership and these are unusual times, so all credit to the OP. Well done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Graces7 wrote: »
    It can cut both ways. In one tenancy I did all the paperwork for my landlord as he could not cope with it.

    It is in many ways a partnership and these are unusual times, so all credit to the OP. Well done.


    Well my opinion in this case is they guh isn't working the least he can do is sort the welfare out after three months of arrears.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Well my opinion in this case is they guh isn't working the least he can do is sort the welfare out after three months of arrears.

    Well OK. The man has a broken marriage and has had to leave his home, and lost his job. Repeatedly. That would throw anyone seriously off kilter.

    And if you read the State Benefits forum here you will realise that not everyone can deal with the ramifications of the intricacies of the Social Welfare system.

    Thankfully he has a responsible and concerned landlord, who is seeking and finding the right information here to sort the situation without the man being thrown out in addition to his existing dire situation

    As I said, renting is a partnership.

    And in these times we really surely need to work together.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    New legislation to be introduced Saturday to limit ban on evictions to last only as long as 5km restrictions apply.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40068911.html?type=amp


  • Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Eduard Khil


    Eviction ban for as long as the restrictions last will come in every time that the 5k restrictions are introduced from now on that's the biggest significant change the new legislation is introducing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    Props to the OP, he has taken a very compassionate view of the situation. It's a rough situation for everyone involved. I definitely wouldn't let it go on until 2021 though. Keep doing what you're doing for the rest of the year, while making preparations to have him evicted asap.

    You can carry forward your losses and use them against your tax bill down the line, so you won't be out of pocket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    Props to the OP, he has taken a very compassionate view of the situation. It's a rough situation for everyone involved. I definitely wouldn't let it go on until 2021 though. Keep doing what you're doing for the rest of the year, while making preparations to have him evicted asap.

    You can carry forward your losses and use them against your tax bill down the line, so you won't be out of pocket.

    When the HAP etc comes through there will be no need for eviction surely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    Graces7 wrote: »
    When the HAP etc comes through there will be no need for eviction surely.

    If he qualifies for HAP. If he doesn't then he can hardly expect to stay there for free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As harsh as it sounds, you should issue written notice of arrears and open a dispute with the RTB.

    How do those disputes work? I know someone in the situation of having lost job, left accommodation, forfeited deposit, but the landlord is pursing for the notice period.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Habata wrote: »
    How do those disputes work? I know someone in the situation of having lost job, left accommodation, forfeited deposit, but the landlord is pursing for the notice period.

    https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Zascar wrote: »
    Can you tell me more please? Thanks.

    They went to social welfare and they gave them forms to fill out I found the same one's on line did the LL side, they needed a utility bill in their name and an upto date lease (I made new ones). They applied one got it the other says he didn't I've no way of checking


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As harsh as it sounds, you should issue written notice of arrears and open a dispute with the RTB.
    +1
    As I said earlier, just because he's not paying doesnt mean the arrears arent building up.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zascar


    Thanks all, the agent has already issued a written notice of arrears and is in regular contact.
    I've asked the tenant re HAP and rent allowance so let's see what they come back with.


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