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Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Don't think they care. They were involved in an accident in Lucan and still not slowing down after it



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's been a bad week for serious collisions involving cyclists




  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    Wasn’t sure which thread to post this in, but Right to Bike in Cork has had a close pass case dismissed.

    case here:




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭tnegun


    The article is poor, do we know did the judge view/accept the video evidence?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    A barrister quoting "rules of the road" as if it's law should automatically lose their case as they should know that



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    So the judge doesn't think he should be in the middle of his lane. Says it all really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭tnegun


    I thought this was particularly being a pr1ck "The barrister acknowledged the complainant for what he termed “that dissertation.”"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    That was the barrister. Judge by this account has just said the threshold has not been reached (or something to that effect). Allowing someone to use the "vigilante cyclist" as language in a court shouldn't be allowed though



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah, barristers can say a lot i think. the other team should have pointed out that going to the gardai with a video for them to action it is precisely the opposite of what a vigilante would do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    I presume this is the case posted a few pages back but surprised it would have gone to court already. If that's the case involving the Cumnor Construction van there really is no justice system in this country. Legislation for everything and nothing enforced. If that's not the definition of a close pass then I guess only a collision and possible death suffices.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    The Garda Inspector believed it to be driving without due care and attention, I wonder did they attempt a FPN first?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Turning from east wall road this morning on to east road, despite taking the middle of the lane, some absolute weapon in a Mini Cooper decided it was so important for them to get through the lights that they decided to take the corner right up beside me, almost pushing me out into the barrier there outside the seabank.

    Was so important for them to get to the set of lights a few hundred metres down the road before the bridge so they could sit there waiting on their phone there apparently



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Young lad ran through a red at a pedestrian crossing outside my daughter's old school. Gave two kids a startle. At the next lights, no shouting involved, I said man, there were kids starting to cross at that red you ran back there. He said sorry but looked a little confused. Queue him on the phone a few times, skimming the kerb twice, drifting out of lane. Even better the next time he passed me he yells out, next time gave an ambulance ready for yourself. Time after this, I sh1t you not, he rolled pass doing a pistol signal at me (I presume he's a big Alberto fan). The other comments he made I could barely make out (we were going back and forth with me in the cycle lane). Last I seen of him, he damaged his wheels as the car drifted into a high kerb and he bounced out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,531 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    That kinda frightens me a bit. To think there are idiots out there who are convinced they are perfectly 'normal' drivers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    That's an awful decision by the judge. It's not possible to get closer and not deflect or hit the cyclist. That the driver said they knew who the cyclist was means or implies they intentionally made no effort to overtake safely. A law of 1/1.5m is no use if not backed by robust enforcement.

    I posted a pic of a car that deliberately skimmed me back in Feb. The pass was close but not as close as in Cork. I received a notification from AGS that the inspector recommended a FCPN and 2pt for driving without due care. The driver has the right to appeal and maybe what happened in Cork will encourage them to roll the dice. Before the Cork ruling, I would have thought the driver mad to challenge it in court but not now.

    Decisions like those in Cork, and additional comments by the judge and defence darrister about the cyclist, only serve to encourage motorists to challenge similar FCPN. The judicial system has just made a joke of the min distance (safe passing) legislation.

    A heirachy of road users like those introduced this year in the UK is needed in Ireland to clearly put any ambiguity on blame on behalf of vulnerable road users to bed. Saying a cyclist was in the middle of the road (primary) should not mean a cyclist forfeits the right to be overtaken safely, at the requisite distance.

    The judge here should be sent on a drivers awareness of vulnerable road users course. It would be of enormous benefit to them in terms of ruling on these cases.

    Post edited by Kaisr Sose on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    A law of 1/1.5m is no use

    There is no such law here though: it was proposed in 2018 but subsequently abandoned in 2019 when the AG raised concerns about being able to measure the 1.5m

    What we have now is a strengthened version of what used to be there...

    which says:

    “(1) (a) A driver shall not overtake or attempt to overtake if to do so would endanger or cause inconvenience to a pedal cyclist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I refer to the guidance of 1m in a 50kmph zone and 1.5m in an 80kmph.

    I know distance is difficult to prove but there has to be some definition of what makes a pass unsafe. It cannot be left ambiguous. Barristers will love that. Define inconvenience and it will be different things to different people. The Road Traffic Act is a joke of an act anyway. Its long due an overhaul. Maybe is will be after the rail link to Dublin Airport is built. 😁

    And of course, some councils have bike signs with 1.5m underneath. Are these as meaningful as the speed limit signs that motorists cannot see/read/decipher?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I know distance is difficult to prove but there has to be some definition of what makes a pass unsafe. It cannot be left ambiguous.

    the problem is that in general, the law would have not removed the ambiguity as it places a specific measure on what is illegal or legal, with no way to determine for certain if that specific criterion was broken. and in many cases, i suspect might make it easier for drivers to avoid prosecution.

    one way to look at it - let's say i swing a hammer at you. if the law states 'you shall not use a hammer in a dangerous or intimidating manner', it's probably trivial to conclude i've broken it. but if the law states 'you shall not swing a hammer within 30cm of someone's face', now there's a burden of proof that i did in fact come within 30cm of your face. and also makes it implicit that it's OK to swing the hammer 31cm from your face.



  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭DoraDelite


    Just back from a couple of weeks in Berlin, where cycling is a serene and relaxing experience, even on non-segregated streets. Well, welcome back to Dublin with a bang (literally almost). Had a couple of bits to do around town today, first up was the famous Lombard street junction. Almost wiped out by a car turning left despite the fact there's a flashing amber for them and I had my front light on along with a fairly bright orange hoodie. Jammed on the brakes and skidded, if it had been wet, I'd have slid into them, no indicator used either by them.

    Second instance was an obnoxiously close pass by a taxi driver in a bus lane despite the fact the lane beside him was clear to move into. 100% a punishment pass. As is usual in these cases, I caught up with him while he was stuck in traffic at the lights less than 100 metres on. I'd say I was home before he even got through that set of lights. Utterly pointless pass and horrible behaviour to deliberately try to use his vehicle to intimidate me.

    Comparing the two cities, it's clear we have a massive problem with an aggressive driving culture in Ireland, the zero enforcement policy of AGS (and DCC when it comes to footpath parking) in my mind plays a significant part in enabling this culture. In the whole two weeks in Berlin cycling around every day, I didn't have a single instance of being endangered. In Dublin, it's every time you get on a bike it seems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Yep.

    Had one on Monday, Oncoming car, continuous white line, car speeds past me in a 50 zone, and close from behind. Oncoming car has to stop and it beeps at overtaking car across the white line. Irony is ights are red 100m upahead. No other cars on coming. Could have waited with no impact. I get there and he is first car.

    I engage driver and ask them to please slow down and not overtake close. He said he was driving quite safely but had to speed up to overtake me due to the oncoming car. I left him in his perfectly warped reality. It would be pointless to begin explaining to him what is wrong with his version of safe or considerate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭tnegun


    A couple more examples of the aggressive driving first clip I collected my son from his friend's house so he was cycling on my inside with his school bag on his bag and the driver decides to pass us this closely and then contrast it with the perfectly executed pass from the second car.


    This ass hat this morning was on my rear wheel approaching the red light then the light goes green and I sense him going for it so moved left to avoid being side swiped, he couldn't wait 2 seconds for me to clear the pinch point. He then pulled into a site 200m up the road!




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I like your line on the road. Looking at your first clip, the second car overtaking is what I typically see nowadays by adopting a similar line. Still get the odd honk but on balance, vastly safer.

    I think the field of view of your camera make both of the bad passes in your vids not look as bad as I'd imagine they were.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭tnegun


    100% if I have any of the kids with me I'm taking the whole lane and coaching them to stay out of the gutter. Both cars I could have touched without extending my arm I must figure out how to put the tramlines on the video



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Not me but I was driving home on the R149 from Clonee direction on Thursday evening, some clown in a jeep tried passing a cyclist but ended up just going around the bend alongside the cyclist at the Stirling Road junction. Couldn't believe it.

    I clocked the guy going just over 40kph while I was waiting to pass so he was going at a good pace. Traffic has been heavier than usual there recently, I wouldn't dream of going anywhere near that road at 7pm on a weekday!



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭tnegun


    That looks like an amazing piece of software the plan view says it all!



  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭TallGlass2


    Bit of a vent, cycling into work this morning, waiting at a right hand filter for the light to turn green and as its about to change, I notice in my right hand side the van essentially moving forward to attempt to either A, right hook me or B cut me off, anyway I let him off, and just gave the 'what the ****' hands, to which I noticed then even the van behind was gesturing the same to me, like 'what the **** was that about'.

    I have resigned myself to not interacting with morons but this one I had to have a word with what the **** he was at.

    Anyway, a non aggressive interaction with the driver asking what that was about, to which he mumbled some words, and what was my problem. To which I replied my problem was 'I am waiting at the top of the lights and you just decided to cut me off', to which he replied, which is a new one to me 'Am I here to serve you?' to which I replied, 'No, but you can have some respect for other people'.

    It won't happen again anyway, next time at that junction/filter, I will be taking the full lane, end of story.

    I am also noticing a serious increase in the amount of cycle lanes blocked by trucks/vans, and I mean actually blocking them where it puts you in an awful dangerous merge situation. I think its time to hand over to the councils non intercept offences as AGS are clearly not able to enforce them.

    I also understand that deliveries need to be made, but the clear lack of any logical thinking by the driver is annoying, the logic is 'I best not obstruct traffic but its okay to obstruct the flow of a cycle lane'. When actually the safer option and the less obstructive option is in fact to impede more on the flow of traffic than the flow of cycle traffic, as majority of the time, they are actually still impeding on the traffic flow, as an example, parked half in a cycle lane and half into the bus lane/road, so a merge situation is developed anyway for normal traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I was coming down Patrick Street in Dublin and was approaching the junction with Kevin Street only to be met by a delivery van parked on the road blocking both a cycle lane and a left turning car lane! He decided that because the loading bay was occupied that he could just stop wherever he wanted and unload his van. Unbelievable that he thought the below spot was a perfectly acceptable location to park up.

    Also, sometimes I need to turn right at this junction and for the life of me I don't know what the safest way of doing it is. There's a protected cycle lane up to this point and so the only opportunity to change over to the right filter lane is at the junction. If the lights are green I usually have to pull into the loading bay and wait for the lights to turn red so that the traffic stops and I can cross safely.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    RE: Blocking the lanes.......It's so endemic that I've even seen Gardaí and DCC vehicles doing it. They installed the mini wands on Westland Row because it was so unsafe, but had to leave a patch clear for the bus stop halfway up the road. Now it just means there's always a few cars parked there with the 'park anywhere' lights on.



    Also, sometimes I need to turn right at this junction and for the life of me I don't know what the safest way of doing it is.

    I used to take a route that had a horrible right hand turn, and another which had no right turn. In both cases, I used to take a left, then immediately do a mini u-turn so I was now sitting at the lights, facing in the direction of the horrible/non-existent right, if you get me. Not 100% legal, but much safer for everyone concerned. Certainly safer than trying to manoeuvre out into the right hand side of 2 or 3 lanes of fast moving, heavy traffic.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Far from ideal as you still have to deal with traffic coming along Kevin Street, although there's more of a chance that cars are stopped if lights are green on Patrick Street. I wonder what a properly designed layout would look like here.



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