Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

tomasrojo wrote: »

I've got almost nothing of that with the kids in the cargo bike, though I try to ignore people in cars, unless they try to get my attention a few times, in which case, I'll assume it might be important (it never is). I've had a handful of people come up and try to engage me in conversation about helmets and hiviz. Frequenters of the Helmet and Hiviz Megathreads can imagine how that goes for them.

Yeah, the trailer attracted a lot of criticism. I think it was the fact that they were behind me and not in my line of sight. This was nine years ago though, attitudes have changed.

I stuck helmets on the kids for optics. I wear a helmet myself. Didn't want to be the dad cycling along with a helmet on with the kids in the trailer with no helmets!!

tomasrojo wrote: »

But you, an adult, can encourage your child to cycle on the footpath, an act which all cyclists are barred from doing, based on the wording of the law. So maybe you, the adult, theoretically, can be fined, or whatever, for encouraging your child to break the law. Children can still break the law, even if they can't be penalised themselves for it.

I guess that, de facto, children are allowed to cycle on footpaths, since it's unofficially indulged, but not de jure.

(I don't have any legal education or training. This is quite possibly all horse feathers.)

The offence for cycling on a footpath is a purely summary matter; district court generally. Conspiracy/aiding/abetting offences are indicatable offences. They carry penalties of imprisonment of 5yrs or more. Needless to say cycling on a footpath isn’t indictable. So any adult who lets / encourages their kids to cycle on footpaths isn’t committing any offence.

RobbieMD wrote: »

The offence for cycling on a footpath is a purely summary matter; district court generally. Conspiracy/aiding/abetting offences are indicatable offences. They carry penalties of imprisonment of 5yrs or more. Needless to say cycling on a footpath isn’t indictable. So any adult who lets / encourages their kids to cycle on footpaths isn’t committing any offence.

That's quite interesting; I wasn't aware of the different categories. I looked them up and they're quite well covered here:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/classification_of_crimes_in_criminal_cases.html

I don't know if encouraging a child to do something that is explicitly forbidden by law but very minor requires you to be prosecuted under conspiracy or aiding and abetting. There have been cases of parents being interviewed by the police and visited by social services for letting their child wait alone at a bus stop in England, or walking home from the park alone, in Maryland, neither of which was actually illegal in those jurisdictions, as far as I know. I think there were a few cases of parents being charged (unsuccessfully) with neglect for those sort of pseudo-offences.

I guess it's all extremely unlikely, because those cases were motivated more by disapproval of the parents than the legality of what they were letting the children do, and it's hard to envision anyone in the police or social services disapproving more of a parent letting a child cycle on the footpath rather than the alternative, which presumably is the road.

Regarding U/A children cycling on footpaths, if you go to some housing estates around the city and country you'll find plenty of them on motorbike scramblers racing around on footpaths and green areas, not to mention doing wheelies on the main road each and every day of the week...
I'd rather see the Gardai pursue those than chase the postman delivering his letters by cycling on the footpath....

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. the gardai need to be told that kids are tearing around on mini-motos or whatever. I recall a ~13YO kid from a neighbouring estate used to come onto the green area in our estate on a small quad bike. Often he would have a passenger on it and usually one or both of them would have no helmet. I used to always ring the gardai about it and hey would always promptly send a car over to deal with it.
However, ultimately it should be the parents responsibility - a) not to buy them and b) that if they do buy one, the kid isn't using them without adult supervision.
Let's not automatically blame the gardai because some people make crap parents!

The Gardai do know that these kids are tearing around estates on scramblers, but from the sounds of it you must live in a very nice estate! And after all it is the Gardai's duty to ensure public safety and the law is upheld.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

2. how many postmen are you aware of that have been chased by the gardai for riding their bike on the path?

You've missed the point entirely! I was responding to the statement made by a previous poster in relation to Gardai enforcing all the applicable laws so read back before responding?

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's also worth noting that (AFAIK) there's no allowance in irish law for postal delivery staff to be able to cycle on the footpath.
i do know from talking to a couple of gardai (one of whom is a cyclist) that they regard the likes of policing these laws to be a waste of time.

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

By that logic, I should be able to drive my car on the footpath provided I do it slowly.

It's commonly done on Griffith Ave where there's a very wide footpath behind a row of trees. I've seen drivers use this to bypass traffic queues to get from their houses to the traffic light 100m down the road...

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Gardai have been told to not engage scramblers because it they chase them and an accident happens they become responsible.

Some tactical contact with Gardai vehicles and these scramblers may solve this issue like they have in parts of the UK..

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Some tactical contact with Gardai vehicles and these scramblers may solve this issue like they have in parts of the UK..

You're talking about children TBF.

cdaly_ wrote: »

It's commonly done on Griffith Ave where there's a very wide footpath behind a row of trees. I've seen drivers use this to bypass traffic queues to get from their houses to the traffic light 100m down the road...

It's also commonly done by all the cars, vans and trucks we see parked on pavements all the time, assuming that they haven't been dropped in by helicopter.

RobbieMD wrote: »

There are very few garda drivers trained to do tactical stops and they’re ERU members generally stopping gunmen heading to shoot someone. Maybe in the next 20yrs Ireland will follow the MET and develop a policy.

Do Gardai have stinger devices?

I for one would support enshrining in law the right of the Gardaí to use their cars to ram scrambler-mounted scrotes, and to hell with whatever might happen to said scrotes.