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10 minute Dart frequency: Union and other issues

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Comments

  • #92
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    This just get s better and better. RTE are now reporting that DART drivers are refusing to take trainee drivers in their cabs with them as part of their route knowledge training to block the 10 minute timetable being introduced.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0418/782700-irish-rail-siptu-nbru/

    Great to see Transdev having an positive impact on IE, I'm sure IE have a good case they would not issue a letter otherwise.


  • #93
    Decuc500
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Decuc500


    shoehorn wrote: »
    Have train lengths been increased in lieu of the increased frequency? 0715 ex Maynooth was 8car this morning, up from previous 4car. Is this permanent? Any increases noticed on other services?

    I'm curious about this. I tend to get the same Dart every evening but I wonder have any of the Darts serving Howth and Malahide after 17:00 that were oversubscribed 4 carriages actually been increased?


  • #94
    jayobray
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭jayobray


    The 0725 DART from Bray has gone from 6 to 8 carriage since 11 April


  • #95
    Mizu_Ger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Mizu_Ger


    end of the road wrote: »
    so what if they are earning more then some college graduates. being a college graduate does not entitle you to a speciffic wage. in fact, it entitles you to nothing. the fact that others earn more then college graduates is just tough i'm afraid.

    I think the teacher unions would disagree with this. They are looking for some kind of payment for members who attain higher degrees of education.


  • #96
    teapotta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 19 ✭teapotta


    Elemonator wrote: »
    . They are earning more than some college grads, despite the fact you only work as a train driver if you are a waster.

    Stunning sense of entitlement in this post.
    I have a degree, I'm better than them, they should be on minimum wage.
    They never divulge what their degree is for.
    There are loads of degrees that are worth NOTHING in the real world, Women's studies, Liberal Arts, and lets not forget you can get a effing degree in the Klingon language.
    These won't help you at all in the real world to get a job, you will have a worthless degree and a mountain of debt.
    Holders of these worthless degrees soon realise they have wasted time and money getting them, and they become bitter , jealous people, as seen in multiple posts regarding the pay and conditions of any job that pays better than theirs.


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  • #97
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    This just get s better and better. RTE are now reporting that DART drivers are refusing to take trainee drivers in their cabs with them as part of their route knowledge training to block the 10 minute timetable being introduced.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0418/782700-irish-rail-siptu-nbru/

    Here we go again, guaranteed this will result in strikes in the very near future.

    Maybe its because I've never been part of a union (nor will I ever be) but I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people think this kind of behaviour is acceptable. If I refused to train in a new person on my team in my place of work I would get a severe bollocking. Continue and I would enter the disciplinary process. Persist and I would be fired. Simple as.

    This kind of behaviour disgusts me.


  • #98
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Decuc500 wrote: »
    I'm curious about this. I tend to get the same Dart every evening but I wonder have any of the Darts serving Howth and Malahide after 17:00 that were oversubscribed 4 carriages actually been increased?

    The 17:05 from Connolly to Malahide is still a 4 car 8500 set. Some days it get's mixed up with the 8 car 8100 set to Howth that leave 3 mins before it. It's random at this stage, depends what failures and delays happen during the day to knock a set out of position.

    They are working on brings dormant set back though, over the past few weeks I have spotted sets in Fairview newly painted with new bogies and pantographs that have not been in service for years.


  • #99
    teapotta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 19 ✭teapotta


    Keyzer wrote: »
    If I refused to train in a new person on my team in my place of work I would get a severe bollocking. Continue and I would enter the disciplinary process. Persist and I would be fired. Simple as.

    This kind of behaviour disgusts me.

    So you are taking on extra work but without extra pay?
    This kind of behaviour disgusts me, management taking advantage of you, you need to join a union ASAP.


  • #100
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    https://twitter.com/NBRU_DUBLIN/status/722196102594830336

    https://twitter.com/NBRU_DUBLIN/status/722199090533163008


  • #101
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,228 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    teapotta wrote: »
    So you are taking on extra work but without extra pay?
    This kind of behaviour disgusts me, management taking advantage of you, you need to join a union ASAP.
    according to the management, this is not extra work, it's part of their agreed duties. is this the case?


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  • #102
    teapotta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 19 ✭teapotta


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    according to the management, this is not extra work, it's part of their agreed duties. is this the case?

    I don't know where the poster works, do you?


  • #103
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    teapotta wrote: »
    So you are taking on extra work but without extra pay?
    This kind of behaviour disgusts me, management taking advantage of you, you need to join a union ASAP.

    To be fair in most office jobs that's seen as part of the job.


  • #104
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    lxflyer wrote: »
    To be fair in most office jobs that's seen as part of the job.

    I've never had a job where I wasn't expected to train/mentor new recruits. Not sure what the exact wording of my contract is, but it's not something I would even consider refusing to do.

    However that means nothing in the context of this issue, the union seems fairly sure their members are under no obligation. To me it seems petty, but CIE is not like most other companies.


  • #105
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    To be honest management in CIE tend to get too full of themselves and push others around, there's honestly a few of them there that simply dont even listen to their own staff and railroad their own agenda without regard at times. Look at that safety report the other day where drivers and such are afraid of even reporting things because of "punitive" disiplinary procedures or fears of being taken off the grade. Thats the kind of attitude you end up getting off them.

    Whats funny is he threatens legal action in that letter over unofficial industrial action with no mention of where the breach of contract is and the NBRU turns around and basically quotes a letter from the company sent previously saying its completely voluntary, I mean comeon company says its voluntary one minute and all of a sudden they have to do it? Its one of the other so unless theres a specific clause or agreement which wasnt quoted or mentioned then they dont have to do it.


  • #106
    kingshankly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    Let's cut to the facts here folks only drivers that can train trainees are mentor drivers which I would say amounts to about 10-15% of drivers
    These drivers became mentor drivers of there own accord and they receive a daily allowance for each day they have a trainee
    These mentor drivers can stop being a mentor driver at any time
    As for the other 85-90% of drivers they are not permitted to take trainees


  • #107
    kingshankly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    Keyzer wrote: »
    Here we go again, guaranteed this will result in strikes in the very near future.

    Maybe its because I've never been part of a union (nor will I ever be) but I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people think this kind of behaviour is acceptable. If I refused to train in a new person on my team in my place of work I would get a severe bollocking. Continue and I would enter the disciplinary process. Persist and I would be fired. Simple as.

    This kind of behaviour disgusts me.

    It's one thing showing someone how to use a coffee machine it's another to let some trainee take control of your train with a thousand people on board


  • #108
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    teapotta wrote: »
    So you are taking on extra work but without extra pay?
    This kind of behaviour disgusts me, management taking advantage of you, you need to join a union ASAP.

    How is it extra work? Drivers are not expected to come in early or stay later. They are being asked to train new drivers which, as far as IE are concerned, is part of their existing contracts.

    How are people supposed to get on the job training? In this case, do you think new drivers should just jump into a train and have an aul jaunt up and down the tracks for the sneer?

    How are management taking advantage of the drivers? you'll have to explain this one to me yourself.


  • #109
    teapotta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 19 ✭teapotta


    Keyzer wrote: »
    How is it extra work? Drivers are not expected to come in early or stay later. They are being asked to train new drivers which, as far as IE are concerned, is part of their existing contracts.

    How are people supposed to get on the job training? In this case, do you think new drivers should just jump into a train and have an aul jaunt up and down the tracks for the sneer?

    How are management taking advantage of the drivers? you'll have to explain this one to me yourself.

    Is it not amazing that a radio is not allowed as it will distract drivers, but its OK to have a trainee beside you asking questions?


  • #110
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    teapotta wrote: »
    Is it not amazing that a radio is not allowed as it will distract drivers, but its OK to have a trainee beside you asking questions?

    Your responses are bordering on the ridiculous. The fact that you didn't respond to any of my comments directly and instead decided to come out more outlandish remarks speaks volumes.

    Fact is, the only people who can train new drivers are existing drivers. Unless they can figure out some way of telepathically transferring that knowledge, then I'm afraid it has to be a new guy in the cab with an experienced driver.


  • #111
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    kingshankly wrote: »
    It's one thing showing someone how to use a coffee machine it's another to let some trainee take control of your train with a thousand people on board

    well how did the existing drivers learn then?


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  • #112
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    loyatemu wrote: »
    well how did the existing drivers learn then?

    Train simulator! :D


  • #113
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    kingshankly wrote: »
    It's one thing showing someone how to use a coffee machine it's another to let some trainee take control of your train with a thousand people on board

    What's your point?


  • #114
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,228 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    sure within ten years or fifteen years all the trains will be remotely operated anyway.


  • #115
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    sure within ten years or fifteen years all the trains will be remotely operated anyway.

    I thought that about level crossing gates ten or fifteen years ago...


  • #116
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,981 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    sure within ten years or fifteen years all the trains will be remotely operated anyway.


    they won't. conflicts with other services, junctions, level crossings, all help make it not a good option. what you will get however (which will be longer then 10-15 years away) is an extension of the current system that dart uses, which will still require a driver in the cab.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • #117
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    teapotta wrote: »
    Stunning sense of entitlement in this post.
    I have a degree, I'm better than them, they should be on minimum wage.
    They never divulge what their degree is for.
    There are loads of degrees that are worth NOTHING in the real world, Women's studies, Liberal Arts, and lets not forget you can get a effing degree in the Klingon language.
    These won't help you at all in the real world to get a job, you will have a worthless degree and a mountain of debt.
    Holders of these worthless degrees soon realise they have wasted time and money getting them, and they become bitter , jealous people, as seen in multiple posts regarding the pay and conditions of any job that pays better than theirs.

    It's hardly a sense of entitlement. It's called reality and unfortunately for DART drivers, it is not amenable to their feelings.

    DART drivers (and Luas drivers for that matter) drivers have very little training requirements (its about 7 weeks, or half a college year!), no years at college breaking your arse to get the job, no student loans to pay off yet think they should be paid a premium wage for an ordinary job. Now that is a real sense of entitlement. I am all for people getting high wages but this simply doesn't work, no matter what rose-tinted glasses you see through. Everyone is entitled to a decent wage but it must reflect the demand for it, the skill level required to do the job, education level required (many jobs require a college education now), experience etc otherwise every single service or product we buy will shoot up in price to cover higher wages.

    And by the way, my degree is BCL (Law) with Economics, and I'm breaking my arse with it. So yes I should earn more, I have a higher skill set.


  • #118
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Elemonator wrote: »
    DART drivers (and Luas drivers for that matter) drivers have very little training requirements (its about 7 weeks), no years at college breaking your arse to get the job, no student loans to pay off yet think they should be paid a premium wage for an ordinary job.

    Let me stop you there. Training for the Dart or even railcars takes more than 6 months and it includes classroom training as well as exams and simulated driving and thats before you even begin to actually get into a cab. In addition the laws and regulations are very stringent as well as the liabilities. The rail is not some easy job as some believe theres alot of responsibilties as well as the fact you are driving a multiton vehicle with alot of kinetic energy. There is a significant difference between a luas for example and the belfast enterprise in terms of scale and potential for destruction and injury in the event of something going wrong.

    Its definately a skilled job as much as you would like to think otherwise.


  • #119
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,981 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Elemonator wrote: »
    DART drivers (and Luas drivers for that matter) drivers have very little training requirements (its about 7 weeks, or half a college year!), no years at college breaking your arse to get the job, no student loans to pay off yet think they should be paid a premium wage for an ordinary job.

    the job of train driving requires a premium wage whether you like that or not. that is what gets paid for such a job.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • #120
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,326 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    end of the road wrote:
    the job of train driving requires a premium wage whether you like that or not. that is what gets paid for such a job.

    It doesn't require a premium wage. It's comparable to kidnapping your kids. You'll pay a premium to get them back just like the public does to get it's rail infrastructure.


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  • #121
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    It takes years to train a heavy rail driver and it takes years and thousands of euro to replace just one. They do command a good wage because of that. A luas driver is very expendable compared to an Irish Rail driver, they are in a very different league from each other.


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