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Upgrade Two Showers

  • 11-11-2019 7:53pm
    #1
    SparrowHawk
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭


    Hi All,

    Have a T80z and a T80xr. I am looking to upgrade both showers to pumped electric showers (have a gravity fed system)and have a couple of questions:
    1. Do I understand correctly that both showers should not be able to operate at the same time?
    2. Can you recommend some showers that would have a similar footprint?
    Would appreciate any advice on the above

    thanks in advance,
    SparrowHawk


Comments

  • #2
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    I'm confused. Triton T80xr & triton T80z are both mains fed showers yet you say you have a gravity system. Mains fed showers will not function on gravity system unless tank is 4 or 5 floors above the shower or else you have them connected to a pump.

    Are you talking about converting the mains fed showers to gravity /tank fed?

    You can have as many electric showers in the house as you like but can only run one at a time.

    Edit: The Triton T900pi Pumped electric is the closest footprint but if going Pumped electric you will really be looking to get the Triton T90sr silent Pumped electric shower.


  • #3
    SparrowHawk
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭SparrowHawk


    Thanks for the response Sleeper12. You're not the only one confused...

    Correct me if I'm wrong - but mains fed = water supply being piped in from the local council etc. Gravity fed = coming from the water tank in the attic.
    If I'm correct on that then yes this is the situation 2 x mains showers on a gravity system (installed by previous owner - not me).

    The pressure in showers is really low (perhaps for obvious reasons) hence this is coming to light now - but they do "work"... as in we can have a shower with low pressure.

    Help and suggestions welcome


  • #4
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,069 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    If it's power you want it's a power shower your after. You need to install a pump at the hot water tank and possibly a bigger hot water tank. You'll need a new shower maybe a proper rain one and larger shower tray. Depending on what you have already I'd say you could be spending 2/3k. Worth every penny though.


  • #5
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    SparrowHawk wrote: »
    Thanks for the response Sleeper12. You're not the only one confused...

    Correct me if I'm wrong - but mains fed = water supply being piped in from the local council etc. Gravity fed = coming from the water tank in the attic.
    If I'm correct on that then yes this is the situation 2 x mains showers on a gravity system (installed by previous owner - not me).

    The pressure in showers is really low (perhaps for obvious reasons) hence this is coming to light now - but they do "work"... as in we can have a shower with low pressure.

    Help and suggestions welcome


    The pressure switch in a mains fed shower wont activate/send electricity to the elements unless you have at least 1 bar of pressure. You have a quarter bar or less from the attic to the bathroom upstairs. If the shower was downstairs then you could have a half a bar of pressure.



    Your attic tank is filled by mains (council) water. My guess is that the feed for both showers comes from this rather from the tank itself. So the water can be coming from the attic but it's still mains water & not gravity. If this is the case then you can alter the pipework in the attic & take the feeds from the tank & then install pumped electric showers. This wont improve the pressure but it will make it constant. No more scalding / freezing shower when water is used elsewhere in the house. As said above for real power/ pressure you would need a power shower.


  • #6
    SparrowHawk
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭SparrowHawk


    Ok - so I have a well, and in a bungalow. So possibly the T80s are coming from the well pipework - if so, I could replace with T90sr ?


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  • #7
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    SparrowHawk wrote: »
    Ok - so I have a well, and in a bungalow. So possibly the T80s are coming from the well pipework - if so, I could replace with T90sr ?


    If you alter the pipework you can


  • #8
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,069 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Have you low pressure in general, pressurising you water system would help everything, 5 Star shower, quick filling bath etc. It's a lot better job, leave one electric,
    You need something like this https://youtu.be/gkND4ZIY44E and one pumped shower might not cost you all that much. Could get a nice grohe mixer shower maybe less than the Triton and it's miles better.


  • #9
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I have two electric showers that will operate at the same time.


  • #10
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Lumen wrote:
    I have two electric showers that will operate at the same time.


    Thats akin to saying that I have four bald tyres and faulty breaks but look at me, I can do 100 mph in rain and snow. Its dangerous. You can cause a fire & it's not safe


  • #11
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Thats akin to saying that I have four bald tyres and faulty breaks but look at me, I can do 100 mph in rain and snow. Its dangerous. You can cause a fire & it's not safe

    That doesn't make sense. I have been in several houses with multiple electric showers and I have never seen a warning notice on any shower saying only one can operate at a time.

    How would a bnb function in that instance?

    I am not saying you are wrong. I just have never heard or seen it before.


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  • #12
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    That doesn't make sense. I have been in several houses with multiple electric showers and I have never seen a warning notice on any shower saying only one can operate at a time.

    How would a bnb function in that instance?

    I am not saying you are wrong. I just have never heard or seen it before.

    Priority switches.

    Also BnBd have a shared hot water supply with pumps.

    So erm.... You've not idea what your on about


  • #13
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Have you low pressure in general, pressurising you water system would help everything, 5 Star shower, quick filling bath etc. It's a lot better job, leave one electric,
    You need something like this https://youtu.be/gkND4ZIY44E and one pumped shower might not cost you all that much. Could get a nice grohe mixer shower maybe less than the Triton and it's miles better.

    He would need to make sure his well is suitable for that.


    Poor pressure in a well system can also be a result of just poor plumbing or even simple adjustments to the pressure feed by someone qualified.


  • #14
    dodzy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭dodzy


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    That doesn't make sense. I have been in several houses with multiple electric showers and I have never seen a warning notice on any shower saying only one can operate at a time.

    How would a bnb function in that instance?

    I am not saying you are wrong. I just have never heard or seen it before.

    You may well have been but they are either immersion fed / full electric setup or there was (or should have been) priority switching installed.

    As for the B & B setup, multiple rooms would typically have thermostatic showers, fed from a large central hot water storage tank/cylinder.

    I’m sure the experts will chime in but 2 bog standard tritons (circa 9 kw) units will pull over 70amps. I’m sure some old houses would probably have a consumer unit fuse rating of less than that, so 2 showers at full tilt on together, and..........lights out


  • #15
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    dodzy wrote: »
    You may well have been but they are either immersion fed / full electric setup or there was (or should have been) priority switching installed.

    As for the B & B setup, multiple rooms would typically have thermostatic showers, fed from a large central hot water storage tank/cylinder.

    I’m sure the experts will chime in but 2 bog standard tritons (circa 9 kw) units will pull over 70amps. I’m sure some old houses would probably have a consumer unit fuse rating of less than that, so 2 showers at full tilt on together, and..........lights out

    Bingo


  • #16
    BohsCeltic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭BohsCeltic


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    going Pumped electric you will really be looking to get the Triton T90sr silent Pumped electric shower.

    I have that model but find the pressure is not very good. Yes it's less noisy but i was dissapointed with it.


  • #17
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    That doesn't make sense. I have been in several houses with multiple electric showers and I have never seen a warning notice on any shower saying only one can operate at a time.

    How would a bnb function in that instance?

    I am not saying you are wrong. I just have never heard or seen it before.




    I suggest you ask in the electrical forum.



    When you have more then one electric shower in the home they should be connected to a priority board. This allows only one to be used at a time.



    The ESB averages 13KW per house at any given time. Two electric showers at the same time is 17KW or 18KW alone. This is without cooker, microwave, washing machine etc running too. Respectfully if you can't see the danger in this then you should stay away from DIY electrical.


  • #18
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    BohsCeltic wrote: »
    I have that model but find the pressure is not very good. Yes it's less noisy but i was dissapointed with it.


    If you turn it all the way to cold you will get good pressure of around 10 litres per minute. Anything over 10 LPM is considered a power shower. However as an electric shower has to heat the water you need to reduce the pressure to about 3.5 LPM on a morning like today. You might get up to 5 LPM on a very hot day. The T90SR is no more nor less powerful than any other 9KW shower



    A 9KW (9.8kw 240v) Mira will give the exact same pressure as a 9KW Triton.



    If you want good pressure Triton now have a silent power shower. It puts out 14 LPM in almost silence. You will need to heat the water for 45 mins or an hour first though.


  • #19
    dodzy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭dodzy


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    If you want good pressure Triton now have a silent power shower. It puts out 14 LPM in almost silence. You will need to heat the water for 45 mins or an hour first though.

    Heat the water for 45 mins..... for either of my daughters to empty it in 7 mins.

    Jesus.:eek:


  • #20
    BohsCeltic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭BohsCeltic


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    If you turn it all the way to cold you will get good pressure of around 10 litres per minute. Anything over 10 LPM is considered a power shower. However as an electric shower has to heat the water you need to reduce the pressure to about 3.5 LPM on a morning like today. You might get up to 5 LPM on a very hot day. The T90SR is no more nor less powerful than any other 9KW shower



    A 9KW (9.8kw 240v) Mira will give the exact same pressure as a 9KW Triton.



    If you want good pressure Triton now have a silent power shower. It puts out 14 LPM in almost silence. You will need to heat the water for 45 mins or an hour first though.

    Yes that is true because in the summer i set the temp lower so the power is better as obviously the water in the tank is warmer. But now no chance of setting it low lol.


  • #21
    SparrowHawk
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭SparrowHawk


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    If you alter the pipework you can

    Could you outline what would need to be changed? I thought I would be able to swap out the electric shower for the pumped electric shower, using the same pipework / wiring?


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  • #22
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    SparrowHawk wrote:
    Could you outline what would need to be changed? I thought I would be able to swap out the electric shower for the pumped electric shower, using the same pipework / wiring?


    Wiring shouldn't be an issue assuming that it's all up to standard.

    You can't connect Pumped shower to the mains. So you can't just take mains fed shower off the wall & swap it with the Pumped electric without altering the pipework in the attic.

    Pumped shower needs it's own dedicated feed taken directly from the cold water tank in the attic.


  • #23
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Thats akin to saying that I have four bald tyres and faulty breaks but look at me, I can do 100 mph in rain and snow. Its dangerous. You can cause a fire & it's not safe
    I made no claims as to safety, I just said they work.

    The showers are both Mira Event B84A of around 2001 vintage. They don't heat the water, they just pump it.

    Is it possible to tell her how much power they draw and confirm whether running both at the same time is dangerous?

    I can't find any power ratings on the stickers on the units.


  • #24
    Tails142
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Tails142


    If they're only pumping and not heating then it's fine. It's the heating element that uses the bulk of the power, pump is probably only 400w or something.


  • #25
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Lumen wrote:
    The showers are both Mira Event B84A of around 2001 vintage. They don't heat the water, they just pump it.

    They aren't electric showers. They are power showers running off a 3 amp fuse. They don't have elements. You can run 10 of these at the same time and it won't have any issues with electricity. Run two electric showers at the same time is a totally different matter


  • #26
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Tails142 wrote: »
    If they're only pumping and not heating then it's fine. It's the heating element that uses the bulk of the power, pump is probably only 400w or something.
    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    They aren't electric showers. They are power showers running off a 3 amp fuse. They don't have elements. You can run 10 of these at the same time and it won't have any issues with electricity. Run two electric showers at the same time is a totally different matter

    Aha, thanks! Terminology fail. I stupidly thought an electric shower was a shower powered by electricity.


  • #27
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,868 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Lumen wrote: »
    Aha, thanks! Terminology fail. I stupidly thought an electric shower was a shower powered by electricity.




    Hey you are not the only one. This is one of those things I have to explain several times a day.Many believe that electric means it has an electric supply & many believe power shower is anything with a pump.


  • #28
    SparrowHawk
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭SparrowHawk


    Hi All,

    thanks for the answers and support. As it looks "slightly" more complicated than anticipated, I instead cleaned out the boiler of the shower - took approx. 80g of Calcium out of the unit :eek:

    Testing it at the moment - temp is more stable, and as I can use more cold water supply when heating the water - pressure is slightly better - might life with this until the New year


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