Termination Letter from landlord with multiple properties

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 2:06am #1

I live in Dublin in a Rent Pressure Zone for 2 years and 1 month (there was never any lease agreement in place). A few months ago my landlord came to my apt and asked for 75% more in rent. I refused and said that I can only pay 4% allowed by law. He refused and told me to look for a new place. I didn't as I didn't do anything wrong. Even though there was no agreement, from a get go I started to pay 4% more in rent without waiting for an official rent increase letter or 90 days notice. A few months later he handed me a termination letter on the basis of a "substantial renovation" and told me to move out. I checked with Threshold and the letter turned out to be invalid, which I informed my landlord about. Two days after I informed him about this he handed me a brand new termination letter but this time signed by his newly appointed solicitor - now he is claiming that his daughter has to move in exactly to my apt. My landlord has 30 apartments in my building where at least 1 apt becomes available each month (people are moving in and out all the time). My landlord's son owns 35 more apartments nearby (400 metres away). Obviously, we know what this is about - I became a problem and he removes me. I am going to challenge this notice too and will opt for the PRTB adjudicator.

My questions are:

1. Even if the latest notice of termination (re: daughter wants to move in) looks valid, can i still challenge it with PRTB based on the 6 months "history" of his conduct? I do have evidence of all our conversations and previous invalid notices. Everything that proves that he tried to get rid of me.
2. Knowing that he and his son owns in total 65 almost identical apartments, can his daughter simply choose any other free place?
3. While he owns so many other apartments, should he offer me a substitute apartment of those tenants that move out at the time when I become "homeless"?
4. My neighbour confided in me that he will be moving out exactly the month that I am required to leave my own apt. Can I simply move in to my neighbour's place? Can I suggest this to my landlord? If I do, he will say that "he already promised this place to someone else". Can he do that? Or in such circumstances I should have a priority?

Please let me know your thoughts.
Thank you.

beauf · 28-11-2019 2:37am

The LL has to give you valid notice. Then follow through.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

The rest really isn't relevant as far as I know. Ask the RTB.

Varik · 28-11-2019 3:00am

Assuming the daughter does actually need somewhere and it isn't a ruse, it's substantially better for landlord to give her the place that's at a lower rent. She gets a lower rent and he's not losing out on a higher one somewhere else. Also doesn't have to offer to rent it to her, she can just live there the 2 years and after which he can set the rent to whatever for the next person.

If you moved into your neighbour place you'd be paying the neighbours current rate plus a bit dependant on when their rent was last reviewed. You've no priority over anyone for the other place.

Graces7 · 28-11-2019 6:12am

Do the RTB know re the huge rent increase he is asking?

adrian92 · 28-11-2019 7:25am

Perhaps a solicitor, with a social conscience, on a voluntary basis, may volunteer to assist (I have never met one- but perhaps there is one)

elfy4eva · 28-11-2019 7:37am

It sounds to me like he's done his homework on the reasons to terminate a part 4. As after his unsuccessful increase he's flip flopped between two of the favourite reasons. I would keep liasing with the RTB to ensure he has served valid notice while informing them of the inconsistency. If you do have valid notice for these reasons and the flat comes back up for rent, as I understand it you must be offered first refusal to return. If he flip flops again and claims he's done substancial refurbishment, they must be just that substancial.

fash · 28-11-2019 8:08am

No reason not to dispute - you have a reasonable case that even if the landlord claims he is entitled in reality it is a sham. Of note the LL must give a statutory declaration and faces fine/imprisonment for giving a false statement. Frankly I would pursue that all the way in ensuring that a case is brought against him.
Furthermore, you can stay in the apartment during the dispute.
In particular, if you stay in the apartment beyond the relevant date when the LL claimed to need the apartment for the daughter the LL's case becomes even more obviously disingenuous as more apartments open up.

ebbsy · 28-11-2019 8:12am

Unless the Landlord asked for the 75% in writing, you would have a job proving that part.

ebbsy · 28-11-2019 8:12am

adrian92 wrote: »

Perhaps a solicitor, with a social conscience, on a voluntary basis, may volunteer to assist (I have never met one- but perhaps there is one)

There are none.

10pennymixup · 28-11-2019 8:41am

adrian92 wrote: »

Perhaps a solicitor, with a social conscience, on a voluntary basis, may volunteer to assist (I have never met one- but perhaps there is one)

ebbsy wrote: »

There are none.

What about FLAC?

splinter65 · 28-11-2019 8:49am

10pennymixup wrote: »

What about FLAC?

Flac will only give basic advice and will not act for someone. The legal aid board will not get involved as the statutory body RTB are in place to deal with tenant/landlord disputes.

10pennymixup · 28-11-2019 9:11am

splinter65 wrote: »

Flac will only give basic advice and will not act for someone. The legal aid board will not get involved as the statutory body RTB are in place to deal with tenant/landlord disputes.

One poster allowed inference be drawn that there are no such solicitors, the other stated it outright.

FLAC have given me (a landlord) advice before on tenancy issues.

Yes they won't act, but their guidance and (more than basic) advice helped me.

The legal aid board is a different entity and I didn't mention it.

davindub · 28-11-2019 9:22am

Op just appeal the notice on the basis:

1. The termination process was initiated to punish you for not agreeing to the price increase.

2. If the LL has another property becoming available he does not "need" yours for his family member.

3. I would write to the solicitor that witnessed the statutory declaration stating you believe it to be false due to the landlord having other apartments and the reasons above, send the same to the law society. It is a criminal offense to sign a statutory declaration you know to be false.

Submit the invalid notice for substantial renovation and your testimony on the rent increase as evidence.

Also get onto FLAC, they do give advice but are hard to book, so use threshold as well. Read the RTA act yourself, it will take a couple of hours. I would also consider seeing if the media would take an interest.

beauf · 28-11-2019 9:54am

None of that will invalidate a valid notice. As far as I'm aware.

But if he doesn't follow though and just puts another tenant in there you might win a payout and the LL will have to offer you the place back.

But someone with that much property had probably been through that many times, and really the fine is small change to him.

Dav010 · 28-11-2019 9:58am

davindub wrote: »

Op just appeal the notice on the basis:

1. The termination process was initiated to punish you for not agreeing to the price increase.

2. If the LL has another property becoming available he does not "need" yours for his family member.

3. I would write to the solicitor that witnessed the statutory declaration stating you believe it to be false due to the landlord having other apartments and the reasons above, send the same to the law society. It is a criminal offense to sign a statutory declaration you know to be false.

Submit the invalid notice for substantial renovation and your testimony on the rent increase as evidence.

Also get onto FLAC, they do give advice but are hard to book, so use threshold as well. Read the RTA act yourself, it will take a couple of hours. I would also consider seeing if the media would take an interest.

Can the RTB dictate what property a LL offspring needs? A LL can’t punish a tenant for initiating a dispute with the RTB, but the op hasn’t done this yet, even though notice has already been served.

A Solicitor acting for a client has no reason to communicate with you, the offence of a false statutory declaration carries the grand sum of £50 in maximum fines, or 3 months in prison. I’m sure the Solicitor would sign based on the info given by his/her client, and if the daughter moves in, where would the offence be?

If the daughter does not move in, the op will have a nice pay day in all likelihood, or, may be offered the apartment again.

BarryD2 · 28-11-2019 10:33am

Curious1002 wrote: »

I live in Dublin in a Rent Pressure Zone for 2 years and 1 month (there was never any lease agreement in place). A few months ago my landlord came to my apt and asked for 75% more in rent. I refused and said that I can only pay 4% allowed by law. He refused and told me to look for a new place. I didn't as I didn't do anything wrong. Even though there was no agreement........Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

Why no lease? This guy has 30 apartments and his son 35 of same? Sounds like this is a letting business that would be familiar with all the normal paperwork?? Doesn't add up.

Salary Negotiator · 28-11-2019 10:40am

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why no lease? This guy has 30 apartments and his son 35 of same? Sounds like this is a letting business that would be familiar with all the normal paperwork?? Doesn't add up.

Very little benefit to a landlord to having a lease.

And absolutely no benefit to a chancer like this.

@OP - I vaguely remember the RTB ruling that a notice to quit was invalid because it was vindictive and being used to punish the tenant so maybe do a bit digging on the RTB webiste for similar cases.

BarryD2 · 28-11-2019 10:49am

Well any long term rentals I've ever had anything to do with came with a lease agreement.

OP, how do you pay your rent? Is it through a bank account or cash?

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 11:21am

Oh wow, what fantastic responses, thank you all very much for taking the time and providing me with some great ideas.
I heard that solicitors keep checking this website so I am little hesitant to provide what evidence I have against my LL in case his lawyer reads it. I want to “surprise” him on the day, even if I have to submit the evidence no later than 5 days before the hearing. I just want to give him as little time as possible to prepare his defence.
RTB doesn’t know many details of my case because I was dealing with Threshold from the start (March) and they do have logs and details.

I just tried to reach FLAC and only managed to leave a message on their phone. Will go there in person today to try to talk to someone and schedule an appointment.
I was also thinking about going to media but not sure if this should/could be done before the hearing or after. His solicitor would use it against me. Or maybe I am wrong and I should send a few emails to the papers?

Over the weekend I read many published PRTB Tribunal cases and, surprise, I even found a case against my landlord’s son, who officially resides in London and his dad (my LL) does the handywork for him. I read how my LL, their solicitor and the son all tried to smear the tenant during the hearing. The tenant said that she never dealt with the son LL, she always dealt with the father LL so she thought that the father is her landlord, paid him directly by cash and texted/emailed the father if something needed his attention. She sued the father for a similar pushing campaign against her and lost because the 3 judges said that she sued the wrong landlord. It’s crazy. So now I was checking who my landlord really is so I don’t do the same “mistake” but all the letters are signed by the father so I am sure I got the right guy. It’s a really shaddy business the more you get into it.
I asked Threshold if someone could accompany me at the hearing in a few months, especially the lady who knows my case since March, but she said that “she won’t find the time”. I said that we don’t even know the hearing date yet (I haven’t even filed a dispute yet) so how come she knows that she wont find the time. She said they are understaffed and won’t come even though I saw Threshold Staff listed as witnesses on many Tribunal cases. Jesus, that’s unhelpful. Would be superb if I got a helping hand at the hearing as I have never had any experience with courts before and could blew my case on something very simple.

Beauf said that the notice is valid and the rest is irrelevant – that’s wrong. Everything is relevant and I will make sure to include all letters and show the history of all the steps the LL took.

I will also dispute the statutory declaration as nobody can decipher it. I certainly can’t, Threshold couldn’t, I have no clue what names, addresses, representatives are there. This is another base I have to add to my dispute. I wanted to check and confirm all the info there and can’t even read one word in the part where the LL (or his solicitor) filled out. It’s not my business to work it out, it’s their job to make it clear what they wrote. No stamps, no ID, nothing. Or maybe there are some ID details there but I can’t read it.

I have many good neighbours here so I know they will be checking out if his daughter really moved in. This family is loaded (no envy here, good for them) so they can easily keep the apt empty for 1 full year and then re-rent it to brand new tenants.
Should I email my LL or his solicitor asking that if they have a free apt within the next 4 months could they offer it to me? I want them to write me back that they will or that they can’t. Either way is good for me.
1. If they say “sure” even if they don’t mean it, my neighbour will keep his apt for me.
2. If they say that they can’t offer anything for me (e.g. they have a loooong list of people waiting in the queue for their apts) then I will use this as an additional evidence how much they don’t want me here and will expose their real motive in court.

…and to all those who ask why no lease. At the beginning when my LL and I were on good civilised terms, I asked him about it and he said that it’s too much work. He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. I got his bank details but after a few months of asking. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.

Fol20 · 28-11-2019 11:42am

davindub wrote: »

Op just appeal the notice on the basis:

1. The termination process was initiated to punish you for not agreeing to the price increase.

2. If the LL has another property becoming available he does not "need" yours for his family member.

3. I would write to the solicitor that witnessed the statutory declaration stating you believe it to be false due to the landlord having other apartments and the reasons above, send the same to the law society. It is a criminal offense to sign a statutory declaration you know to be false.

Submit the invalid notice for substantial renovation and your testimony on the rent increase as evidence.

Also get onto FLAC, they do give advice but are hard to book, so use threshold as well. Read the RTA act yourself, it will take a couple of hours. I would also consider seeing if the media would take an interest.

1) agreed. Just Pursue based on valid notice.

2) this is not correct, it doesn’t matter how many property’s the ll has. They can choose any property for family use and it doesn’t matter if every other property is currently vacant.

davindub · 28-11-2019 12:00pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Can the RTB dictate what property a LL offspring needs? A LL can’t punish a tenant for initiating a dispute with the RTB, but the op hasn’t done this yet, even though notice has already been served.

A Solicitor acting for a client has no reason to communicate with you, the offence of a false statutory declaration carries the grand sum of £50 in maximum fines, or 3 months in prison. I’m sure the Solicitor would sign based on the info given by his/her client, and if the daughter moves in, where would the offence be?

If the daughter does not move in, the op will have a nice pay day in all likelihood, or, may be offered the apartment again.

The RTB can determine there was/ was not grounds to terminate on the stated reason. They will obviously examine the basis of the need, there has been some commentary on this and as you can imagine, it wasn't that the LL could move someone in there in order to terminate the tenancy.

I would not have signed the declaration personally based on the information, the landlord has been quite cynical here, rent increase, followed by substantial renovation, stating "needs" property when others available....

The fines may not be vast, but the solicitor certainly wouldn't want to risk a criminal conviction. The solicitor knows exactly that the basis of "needs" vs "wants" is the issue not whether the daughter moves in or not.

28-11-2019 12:11pm

adrian92 wrote: »

Perhaps a solicitor, with a social conscience, on a voluntary basis, may volunteer to assist (I have never met one- but perhaps there is one)

You need to get out more!

FLAC volunteer solicitors offer free & confidential legal information and advice to the public and help thousands of people every year.

28-11-2019 12:18pm

davindub wrote: »

The fines may not be vast, but the solicitor certainly wouldn't want to risk a criminal conviction. The solicitor knows exactly that the basis of "needs" vs "wants" is the issue not whether the daughter moves in or not.

This matter appears to have nothing to do with the landlord's solicitor who has simply carried out the instructions given to him/her by the client.

S/he draws up the affidavit as instructed and must satisfy him/herself as to the identity of the person(s) swearing the affidavit - but it's the client that swears the affidavit and it's not the duty of the solicitor to establish the validity or otherwise of what the client is declaring.

Grumpypants · 28-11-2019 12:28pm

I got a letter recently from the RTB with the updated flow. If he is claiming his daughter is moving in then there are some new requirements. They are outlined here https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination/

In Short:

You need to be given 120 days notice (based on you being there 2 years).
They need to fill out this form and attach the notice they gave you and sent it to the RTB. https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/forms/RTBNoticeofTerminationReturnForm.pdf
The daughter has to move in, and if she moves out within 12 months you have to be offered the apartment back.

I would right away lodge a complaint with the RTB, outline the 75% rent increase demand, that you refused due to the RPZ. Then give them a copy of the renovation letter, (even if they do renovate you have to be offered it back. That is new since June 4th).

At the very least they will tell you who the landlord is so they don't try a fast one again. https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/register-a-tenancy/search-the-register-or-notify-the-rtb-of-an-unregistered-tenancy/

They have essentially tried to illegally raise the rent, illegally terminate your notice (at least once) and might do it again. If they mess up the daughter moving in bit you have a very good case to sue for damages. Cost of moving, lost rent etc.

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 1:23pm

Yes, they gave me exactly 120 days notice. The previous invalid notice based on "substantial renovation" stated 6 months notice so they gave me 2 months extra but since i challenged it then now they went with exactly 120 days, not 1 day more. Nasty and vindictive yet legal.

If the daughter does not move in in March, like stated in the notice but e.g. in October instead while the apt stays empty until then - can i challenge it that they kicked me out way before they actually needed the apt? Or it shouldnt be my business when the girl will physically move in?

The PRTB website says:
(...)"Where a landlord requires the property for their own use or for the a family a member, a Statutory Declaration must accompany the Notice of Termination confirming the intended occupant's identity and (if not the landlord) their relationship to the landlord and the expected duration of the occupation. " (...)

They give an example:
[Insert name of intended occupant(s) and relationship to the Landlord] expects to occupy the dwelling for / until [specify intended duration of occupation].

My landlord wrote “Ms. XXX, the LL’s daughter, expects to occupy the dwelling from 20 March 2020 for an indefinite period of time”.
Does my LL has to provide a specific (estimated) time here? He stated vaguely “indefinite” so I am not sure if I could fight this part too.

beauf · 28-11-2019 1:39pm

She might just stay there occasionally. What then....

meijin · 28-11-2019 1:41pm

Section 14:

Prohibition on penalisation of tenants.

14.—(1) A landlord of a dwelling shall not penalise a tenant for—

(a) referring any dispute between the tenant and the landlord to the Board for resolution under Part 6,

(b) giving evidence in any proceedings under Part 6 to which the landlord is a party (whether the tenant is a party to them or not),

(c) making a complaint to a member of the Garda Síochána or to a public authority in relation to any matter arising out of, or in connection with, the occupation of the dwelling or making an application regarding such a matter to a public authority, or

(d) giving notice of his or her intention to do any or all of the things referred to in the preceding paragraphs.

(2) For the purposes of this section a tenant is penalised if the tenant is subjected to any action that adversely affects his or her enjoying peaceful occupation of the dwelling concerned.

(3) Such action may constitute penalisation even though it consists of steps taken by the landlord in the exercise of any rights conferred on him or her by or under this Act, any other enactment or the lease or tenancy agreement concerned if, having regard to—

(a) the frequency or extent to which the right is exercised in relation to the tenant,

(b) the proximity in time of its being so exercised to the tenant's doing the relevant thing referred to in subsection (1), and

(c) any other relevant circumstances,

it is a reasonable inference that the action was intended to penalise the tenant for doing that thing.

(4) This section is without prejudice to any other liability (civil or criminal) the landlord may be subject to for doing a thing prohibited by this section.

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 1:59pm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

@OP - I vaguely remember the RTB ruling that a notice to quit was invalid because it was vindictive and being used to punish the tenant so maybe do a bit digging on the RTB webiste for similar cases.

I am trying to find the ruling on the RTB site for the last few hours. Do you remember at least the year? Was it in 2019, 2018 ruling maybe? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

28-11-2019 2:02pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I am trying to find the ruling on the RTB site for the last few hours. Do you remember at least the year? Was it in 2019, 2018 ruling maybe? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Contact Threshold or the Mercy Law Centre and they should have that info. to hand.

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 2:08pm

beauf wrote: »

She might just stay there occasionally. What then....

You please tell me. Can they kick somebody out just to have a place for the girl 1 day a month?

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 2:09pm

171170 wrote: »

Contact Threshold or the Mercy Law Centre and they should have that info. to hand.

Super, I will do that now.

Termination Letter from landlord with multiple properties

Comments