Missing Buildings on Lr. Ormond Quay

Caxton · 15-02-2018 10:37am #1

I’m looking for information on missing buildings, 43 & 44. Lr. Ormond Quay (corner of Lower Liffey St.). These building appears to have disappeared between the 1901 & 1911 Census. Number 44 in which I’m particularly interested, was known as Glynn’s Hotel in 1911, Hotel-Keeper Patrick Glynn.

There’s now a recess at this location, where the bronze statue of ‘two ladies sitting on bench’ is located. This recess does not appear on Lower Liffey Street maps from the 1800s.

I’d appreciate any guidance as to what happened to these buildings?

Hermy · 15-02-2018 10:49am

That's a strange one.

Have you checked Thom's Directories for the area?

Caxton · 15-02-2018 11:20am

Thank you Hermy.

No, but I've seen newspaper adverts for the Hotel. My interest is mainly in what happened the Glynn family and could it have been connected with the disappearance of the Hotel. Patrick Glynn's wife Frances died on the 15th. of march 1901, prior to the Census, leaving him with a daughter and son, Frances & Leo respectively. I've not been able to find any subsequent information on Frances or her Father Patrick. But on his son Leo's 1924 wedding cert. Patrick is not recorded as deceased but as a Hotel keeper.

Hermy · 15-02-2018 12:30pm

Searching the 1911 England Census at Ancestry there's a Florence Glynn (b. abt 1888 - Dublin) living in London who might be a likely candidate for Patrick's daughter as she doesn't seem to appear elsewhere in Irish records. My subscription is out so I can't look any further into the record.

L1011 · 15-02-2018 12:35pm

Frances Glynn was murdered in the hotel, by the account in the Irish Times. Digging for anything further.

Patrick said at the inquest that he had "not lived with her for some time" (he wasn't the suspect, a guest was)

spurious · 15-02-2018 12:38pm

1904 Thom's (From Ancestry)
43 Pigott, William, Bookseller
44 Metal Bridge Hotel, T Halford, proprietor
44 Kennedy, Joseph tailor

spurious · 15-02-2018 12:53pm

Also Thom's 1904

Glynn, Patrick, purveyor, 49 Dorset St Upr
Glynn, Patrick, tobacconist, 98 Dorset St Upr

Of course may not be the same man.

shanew · 15-02-2018 1:09pm

Ormond Quay Lower, Thom's 1906

43 J.F. Kaiteer, antiques dealer
44 Joseph Kennedy, tailor

Caxton · 15-02-2018 2:01pm

Hermy wrote: »

Searching the 1911 England Census at Ancestry there's a Florence Glynn (b. abt 1888 - Dublin) living in London who might be a likely candidate for Patrick's daughter as she doesn't seem to appear elsewhere in Irish records. My subscription is out so I can't look any further into the record.

Thanks Hermy,

Yes, that's likely, her brother at this time is living in Dublin as a lodger.

Caxton · 15-02-2018 2:06pm

L1011 wrote: »

Frances Glynn was murdered in the hotel, by the account in the Irish Times. Digging for anything further.

Patrick said at the inquest that he had "not lived with her for some time" (he wasn't the suspect, a guest was)

Thanks L1011.

This is intriguing, her death certs gives the cause as 'Disease of the Heart, Liver & Kidneys'.

Caxton · 15-02-2018 2:12pm

shanew wrote: »

Ormond Quay Lower, Thom's 1906

43 J.F. Kaiteer, antiques dealer
44 Joseph Kennedy, tailor

Thanks Shanew,

He must have departed the Hotel business prior to 1906. In appears that the Hotel no longer exists, but the building does. In which case the disappearance of the building may have had no impact on Patrick Glynn

Caxton · 15-02-2018 2:17pm

spurious wrote: »

1904 Thom's (From Ancestry)
43 Pigott, William, Bookseller
44 Metal Bridge Hotel, T Halford, proprietor
44 Kennedy, Joseph tailor

Thanks Spurious.
Maybe, he was gone by 1904?

L1011 · 15-02-2018 2:27pm

The news about the death has Frances (senior) running the hotel on her own so the change of ownership was presumably due to her death.

Edit: It wasn't convicted as a murder, but an assault leading to death (manslaughter in modern terms I would guess). John Drea sentenced to 12 months hard labour for it in April 1901. The headline calls it 'brutal assault on a female drunkard' but doesn't elaborate on that. Says Drea was the manager, not a guest as the earlier article said.

Caxton · 15-02-2018 2:30pm

Here's a sketch of Ormond Quay Lower & Liffey St. Lower, showing the missing building?

L1011 · 15-02-2018 2:38pm

Final news article I could fine was a report from the bail hearing; a Doctor stated that Frances was in such a poor state (listing the death cert diseases) she could have died any day and that violence just accelerated it. So the death cert is accurate to a large extent...

Caxton · 15-02-2018 2:44pm

L1011 wrote: »

The news about the death has Frances (senior) running the hotel on her own so the change of ownership was presumably due to her death.

Edit: It wasn't convicted as a murder, but an assault leading to death (manslaughter in modern terms I would guess). John Drea sentenced to 12 months hard labour for it in April 1901. The headline calls it 'brutal assault on a female drunkard' but doesn't elaborate on that.

Thanks again, this is priceless. This may explain why the family appear to have broken up. Patrick must have returned to the hotel after her death, as he's listed in the Census as 'Hotel Keeper', this was two weeks after her death.

I still don't understand the why the coroner reported the cause of death was he did?

Hermy · 15-02-2018 3:01pm

Caxton wrote: »

Here's a sketch of Ormond Quay Lower & Liffey St. Lower, showing the missing building?

That's fantastic - where did you get it?

Caxton · 15-02-2018 3:24pm

Hermy wrote: »

That's fantastic - where did you get it?

Sorry, I don't recall exactly, it was the result of a Google Search some time ago.

Caxton · 15-02-2018 3:37pm

L1011 wrote: »

Final news article I could fine was a report from the bail hearing; a Doctor stated that Frances was in such a poor state (listing the death cert diseases) she could have died any day and that violence just accelerated it. So the death cert is accurate to a large extent...

Thanks again L1011. All is explained, the poor wretch, her Parents and siblings had emigrated to USA, years previously.

gozunda · 15-02-2018 9:31pm

Caxton wrote: »

Thanks again L1011. All is explained, the poor wretch, her Parents and siblings had emigrated to USA, years previously.

Do you mean the daughter - Frances emigrated to the USA afterwards or the family emigrated?

gozunda · 15-02-2018 9:55pm

Caxton wrote: »

Here's a sketch of Ormond Quay Lower & Liffey St. Lower, showing the missing building?

Check out the following National Library link - I think it may show the building

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000038010#

Click "View Online" and then use the controls to enlarge for the full sized image ...

If you use the '+' control several times it gives very good detail of the building and the one beside it ...

spurious · 15-02-2018 11:19pm

Another sketch attached - from 1850. Not sure how accurate it is. From Shaw's Dublin City Directory of 1850.

gozunda · 15-02-2018 11:23pm

spurious wrote: »

Another sketch attached - from 1850. Not sure how accurate it is. From Shaw's Dublin City Directory of 1850.

The detail in the sketch appears to match the National Library drawing from about 20 years earlier fairly accurately.

Caxton · 16-02-2018 9:33am

gozunda wrote: »

Do you mean the daughter - Frances emigrated to the USA afterwards or the family emigrated?

No, Frances was born in Abbeyleix, her father was Martin Carty a member of a family of Blacksmiths. The family consisting of Parents, two brothers and a sister, moved to Dublin and lived in Thomas St.

All the children married in Dublin and her parents and two brothers emigrated to New York in 1888. Her sister Margaret married William Henry Brooks in 1885 and as I can't find any further trace of them, I assume they may also have emigrated.

Frances gave birth to five children, only two Florence and Leo are alive at the time of her murder. I don't believe she had any immediate family other that her estranged husband and two children, living in Dublin at the time of her murder.

Missing Buildings on Lr. Ormond Quay

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