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Milk and Dairy

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  • #362
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    They probably have wolves in that part of the world, although I don't know if they would prey on those massive things.

    Dingoes stole my Buffalo!!!


  • #363
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    KennisWhale wrote: »
    You have a bit of a gymnasium going on inside your head that you love to jump around it seems. Lots of whataboutery.

    Rather than throwing such ****e. You could try and engage with the discussion. I commented on your post. If that doesn't suit your evident bias - not much I can help with tbf.


  • #364
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    No but we wouldn't be able to produce all the meat and dairy that we do if everyone farmed the way you do. Any mention of reducing the herd is shut down immediately by the IFA. So the polluting intensive farming isn't going to go away unfortunately, regardless of what you're doing.

    Really?
    There was a scheme only last year to encourage farmers to reduce their herd size even approved if I remember correctly by the IFA.


  • #365
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,678 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    emaherx wrote: »
    Really?
    There was a scheme only last year to encourage farmers to reduce their herd size even approved if I remember correctly by the IFA.

    IFA Says Maintaining The Size Of The National Herd "Absolutely Critical"

    https://kfmradio.com/news/08102020-0837/listen-ifa-says-maintaining-size-national-herd-absolutely-critical


  • #366
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    IFA Says Maintaining The Size Of The National Herd "Absolutely Critical"

    https://kfmradio.com/news/08102020-0837/listen-ifa-says-maintaining-size-national-herd-absolutely-critical

    Farmers were paid to reduce stocking rate.


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  • #367
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Do you think we would need to reduce the herd to farm cattle in this way or we could keep the 7 million? Surely we don't have enough land for this.

    Thelonious- I really don't know if you are deliberately choosing to ignore the number of times many different posters have explained that issue to you. And yet you continue to push the exact same rubbish again and again?. Its hard to know if you are making things up or just having a laugh at this stage.

    So let's do this again.

    Over the last 40 years there has no huge increase in the national herd. As of December 2018 - CSO figures show the number of cattle of all types was approx 6.5 million - well below the number of cattle (7.6 million) in Ireland when we joined the EU in 1973. In 2019 the total number of cattle decreased by a further 33,800. If you wish to argue variations in these figures over time I'll be only to happy to do so.

    So yes with a reduced number of animals - there is indeed enough land. Stocking rates are a function of the available which can be grazed. But I guess you wouldn't know that.


  • #368
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Rather than throwing such ****e. You could try and engage with the discussion. I commented on your post. If that doesn't suit your evident bias - not much I can help with tbf.

    Not throwing shíte ?

    Like calling a poster a buil****ter and telling them they know **** all ?

    That’s pretty hypocritical on your behalf there.

    So I’ll just call you the hypocrite from now on seeing as you’re ok with calling people names.

    You’ll be fine with that won’t you hypocrite ?

    Or I could call you ‘whataboutery’ if you’d prefer ?


  • #369
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    IFA Says Maintaining The Size Of The National Herd "Absolutely Critical"

    https://kfmradio.com/news/08102020-0837/listen-ifa-says-maintaining-size-national-herd-absolutely-critical
    To be fair an awful lot of farmers do not buy into this stance by the ifa,

    less fertiliser, less imported feed, more area for nature, less production and better utilisation of all all food would be a good for us all..
    Optimum sustainable stocking levels,and soil regeneration in agriculture is gaining traction amongst environmentalists and intensive tillage and horticulture is going to have a light shone at some point.


  • #370
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    gozunda wrote: »
    Thelonious- I really don't know if you are deliberately choosing to ignore the number of times many different posters have explained that issue to you. And yet you continue to push the exact same rubbish again and again?. Its hard to know if you are making things up or just having a laugh at this stage.

    So let's do this again.

    Over the last 40 years there has no huge increase in the national herd. As of December 2018 - CSO figures show the number of cattle of all types was approx 6.5 million - well below the number of cattle (7.6 million) in Ireland when we joined the EU in 1973. In 2019 the total number of cattle decreased by a further 33,800. If you wish to argue variations in these figures over time I'll be only to happy to do so.

    So yes with a reduced number of animals - there is indeed enough land. Stocking rates are a function of the available which can be grazed. But I guess you wouldn't know that.
    Think he's scared of cows rather than any environmental hatred of farmers


  • #371
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    klopparama wrote: »
    Not throwing shíte ? Like calling a poster a buil****ter and telling them they know **** all ? That’s pretty hypocritical on your behalf there. So I’ll just call you the hypocrite from now on seeing as you’re ok with calling people names. You’ll be fine with that won’t you hypocrite ? Or I could call you ‘whataboutery’ if you’d prefer ?

    Really Klopp lol. And Nope. I said the comment was bull****e. But you know that already. And evidently knew nothing about agriculture.

    As you well know - calling posters names like 'hypocrite' because you dont agree with them is something you do all the time.

    But you know what - you've just shown your hand again. No surprises there eh ...


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  • #372
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Really Klopp lol. And Nope. I said the comment was bull****e. But you know that already. And evidently knew nothing about agriculture.

    As you well know - calling posters names like 'hypocrite' because you dont agree with them is something you do all the time.

    But you know what - you've just shown your hand again. No surprises there eh ...

    So that’ll be the whataboutery then.


  • #373
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    klopparama wrote: »
    So that’ll be the whataboutery then.

    No Klopp thats you. :D


  • #374
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I think the overwhelmingly obvious lesson is that when you monetise animals it’s the money that becomes the most important thing. It just makes sense.

    Heartbreaking stuff here.

    How can people still think that what they see in adverts remotely resembles the reality ?


  • #375
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    https://youtu.be/RIWfZCiWsNU


  • #376
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    When posting here on the vegan forum all posters should respect the overarching tenet that is animal products are unnecessary to survive in the contemporary.


  • #377
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭emaherx


    klopparama wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/RIWfZCiWsNU

    So your youtube video dosen't show any well cared for animals therefore they don't exist? Couldn't possibly be that it wouldn't suit the makers of the video to show such imagery?


  • #378
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    klopparama wrote: »

    How can people still think that what they see in adverts remotely resembles the reality ?
    klopparama wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/RIWfZCiWsNU

    How can people still think that what they see in heavily edited videos remotely resembles the reality ?


  • #379
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Ah right.

    That’s all CGI is it ?

    All false. It’s not real ? Fake news guys is it ?

    That’s your stance from the off rather than it’s abhorrent.

    That’s very very telling. I’m not too surprised though.

    Money and livelihoods at stake.


  • #380
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    klopparama wrote: »
    Ah right.

    That’s all CGI is it ?

    All false.

    That’s your stance from the off rather than it’s abhorrent.

    That’s very very telling. I’m not too surprised though.

    Money and livelihoods at stake.

    Where did I say it's all CGI or false?? I'm sure, like me, farmers watching that would have their blood boiling. There's bad & good farmers, (thankfully the former is a very small percentage) just like there's nice & horrible people in life too.

    It's very telling that your stance from the off is that all farmers are like this when I can tell you with complete certainty that that is false.


  • #381
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    When posting here on the vegan forum all posters should respect the overarching tenet that is animal products are unnecessary to survive in the contemporary.

    Perhaps but if the vegan message has to rely on such propaganda videos as the one shown above is it really that strong. Do you people really believe all dairy animals are beaten and dragged around like the video?

    Organizations like the WHO, FAO and the health boards of almost every country are reluctant to recommend veganism as the diet for the masses due to a fear of an increase in malnourishment in the population. A balanced diet involving meat and dairy products is still recommended by most health experts.

    I can respect someone's choice to be vegan as do most visiting posters here, but can we not call out the propaganda videos for what they are? There is no doubt that the farm workers in the videos are vile individuals but it's hardly evidence that these represent all dairy farms.

    Also a point to note, there are far more industrial dairy farms in the UK compared to Ireland. The average dairy herd size in the UK is about 1,800 compared to 78 here. With less hired staff required animals tend to better cared for by their owners. And before the list of headlines are drawn up there are 18,000 dairy farms in Ireland so I'm sure you all have a list of newspaper articles showing some abuse.


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  • #382
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Ha. Probably labelled as ‘farm fresh’ in the adverts or on the packaging.

    What is normal about this ?

    https://youtu.be/u80_IrSILI4


  • #383
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    It’s ok everybody.

    Some abuse is to be expected and it’s normal for that abuse to happen.


  • #384
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    klopparama wrote: »
    It’s ok everybody.

    Some abuse is to be expected and it’s normal for that abuse to happen.

    No it’s unlawful and immoral. And illogical because it’s unprofitable. Thriving animals have to be comfortable animals. Thrive and profit have a direct link.


  • #385
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭emaherx


    klopparama wrote: »
    Ha. Probably labelled as ‘farm fresh’ in the adverts or on the packaging.

    What is normal about this ?

    https://youtu.be/u80_IrSILI4

    How often is the narrative that it's not natural for cows to be always pregnant pushed? If they were wild animals they would almost always be pregnant infact dairy farmers are more likely to "unnaturally" increase the period between pregnancy by not impregnating a cow at her first cycle after pregnancy a bull however doesn't wait.

    Bobby calves are not a common practice here either.

    Don't know of many farms that cull cows at 5 or 6 years old either. How is it these videos complain about cows being forced to produce so many offspring in order to produce milk and in the same breath claim they are slaughtered too young after only having 3 calves?

    So to answer your question the video is not the norm ;)


  • #386
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Jjameson wrote: »
    No it’s unlawful and immoral. And illogical because it’s unprofitable. Thriving animals have to be comfortable animals. Thrive and profit have a direct link.

    And yet it happens.


  • #387
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭emaherx


    klopparama wrote: »
    And yet it happens.

    Like lots of illegal acts, so not sure what your point is.

    If a vegan commits a crime are all vegans responsible because they are vegan?

    No of course not, suggesting as much would be ridiculous. But yet this is exactly what you are saying.


  • #388
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    auspicious wrote: »
    When posting here on the vegan forum all posters should respect the overarching tenet that is animal products are unnecessary to survive in the contemporary.

    auspicious - i hate to point this out. But it's not the 'vegan' forum - its the "vegetarian and vegan forum".

    And yes many vegetarians use 'animal products" including eggs and dairy products. Dumping a zeitgeist on others and demanding posters "respect" an "overarching tenet" in a thread which in many respects amounts to little more than hate speech against farmers comes across as somewhat ironic tbf.


  • #389
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    klopparama wrote: »
    I think the overwhelmingly obvious lesson is that when you monetise animals it’s the money that becomes the most important thing. It just makes sense.
    Heartbreaking stuff here.
    How can people still think that what they see in adverts remotely resembles the reality ?

    Ah the old 'money" sthick kloppp? Didn't you do already do that the other night in yet another long hate filled rant?

    But OK I'll bite. So yet another anti farming video made up of even more selected footage with no acknowledgement of the many many thousands of farmers who treat their animals well not only because the good care of animals is the recommended practice but also because its the right thing to do.

    If there are exceptions - then that is a case for dealing with it and not using it to beat everyone else over the head with.


    That said the one thing "Earthling Ed" seems to be good at is producing ****e like this for dramatic effect. Oh and MONEY.

    Do you know that our friend Eathling Ed there who flogs those videos - has a financial value of about $68 million.?

    Then there's the $6000 - $7000 a month that Ed gets from his Patreon money collecting. And in September alone he earned another $ 1.3K from idiots viewing his videos on YouTube.

    I think the overwhelmingly obvious lesson is that It's difficult to get a person to understand something when his bank account depends upon his not understanding it. In this case its Payyyysssss Ed to deliberately paint farming in the worst way possible because some gullible people lap it up.

    Heres another interesting video Ed would probably agree with...

    https://youtu.be/HEofM_rDPqY

    Easy money if you dont mind making fools out of people


  • #390
    M256
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭M256


    auspicious wrote: »
    When posting here on the vegan forum all posters should respect the overarching tenet that is animal products are unnecessary to survive in the contemporary.

    Please provide proof


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  • #391
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Ah the old 'money" sthick kloppp? Didn't you do already do that the other night in yet another long hate filled rant?

    But OK I'll bite. So yet another anti farming video made up of even more selected footage with no acknowledgement of the many many thousands of farmers who treat their animals well not only because the good care of animals is the recommended practice but also because its the right thing to do.

    If there are exceptions - then that is a case for dealing with it and not using it to beat everyone else over the head with.

    Deflect. Deflect. Deflect.

    Pathetic response to animal cruelty.

    Not surprised it doesn’t upset you.


This discussion has been closed.
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