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09-11-2018, 09:29   #1
RayCun
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Landlords get it in the neck again

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Ireland has retained its position as Europe’s most attractive destination for buy-to-let investors for the third year in a row, according to research by WorldFirst.
https://www.propertyinvestortoday.co...to-let-hotspot
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09-11-2018, 10:46   #2
DubCount
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Not a shock that yields in Ireland are the highest in Europe. Mortgage interest rates are also at the upper end of European tables. Risk of Buy2Let investment in Ireland is so high that high yields are going to be necessary to attract investment.

Yield is only one consideration in a Buy2Let investment. It shows that rent prices are high relative to the cost of buying a property. If you want lower rent relative to house prices, you need to address costs (mortgage interest rates on Buy2Let etc.) and address risk (an efficient and reliable eviction system for rogue tenants). If things continue as they are, Ireland will be number 1 in the yield tables for many years to come.

As usual, you have to ask the question, "if returns are so good in Irish Buy2Let, why are more landlords leaving the market than joining it?"
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09-11-2018, 10:48   #3
Wheety
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What's your opinion RayCun?
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09-11-2018, 10:49   #4
LuckyLloyd
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What's your opinion RayCun?
From the title his opinion seems to be pretty clear: landlords may be protesting too much.
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09-11-2018, 12:20   #5
Ray Palmer
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Just want to know the details of the calculations. Does it consider taxes?
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09-11-2018, 12:22   #6
RayCun
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Originally Posted by DubCount View Post
As usual, you have to ask the question, "if returns are so good in Irish Buy2Let, why are more landlords leaving the market than joining it?"
If the situation for landlords in Ireland is so terrible, why are UK landlords investing here?

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Just want to know the details of the calculations. Does it consider taxes?
Ask them, but since this is a guide for investors I'm sure they are interested in more than the headline figure.
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09-11-2018, 12:22   #7
seamie78
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Just want to know the details of the calculations. Does it consider taxes?
I always wonder why tax is thrown into every argument in relation to landlords, its income so you pay taxes on it. the rate depending on your overall circumstances
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09-11-2018, 12:27   #8
Samuel T. Cogley
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People are getting exactly what they wanted, large REITs buying entire blocks, that's working out just dandy. Yeilds will continue to be high as a new apartment can be put on at 'market rate' plus a bit for the luxury nature of the rental, pushing that market rate higher for the next block purchased.

People who think private LL's have it easy with the risks involved are simply out of touch with the actual reality.
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09-11-2018, 12:29   #9
Samuel T. Cogley
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Originally Posted by seamie78 View Post
I always wonder why tax is thrown into every argument in relation to landlords, its income so you pay taxes on it. the rate depending on your overall circumstances

Because REITs are adept at avoiding tax making the yeilds higher again and thus mitigating their risk.
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09-11-2018, 14:06   #10
10pennymixup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayCun View Post
If the situation for landlords in Ireland is so terrible, why are UK landlords investing here?



Ask them, but since this is a guide for investors I'm sure they are interested in more than the headline figure.
Where in the article does it say UK landlords are actually investing here?

It just seems to say that Ireland is an attractive proposition to "investors looking to maximise rental returns" due to "an average rental return of 7.69%, continued economic growth, consistent demand for rental properties, the stability of the euro and reasonable property prices."

I agree when you say that you're sure investors are interested in more than this headline, maybe why they are not investing in their droves.

You only get rental returns if the tenant pays rent and doesn't wreck the place. And in the UK, its a lot easier to remove a bad tenant than here.

It seems the article bases it's findings on selective criteria, no where does it mention how difficult or expensive it is to remove a bad tenant here, negating any possible returns.

It also lets itself down when it says Ireland has reasonable property prices. If anyone here thinks that Ireland's property prices are reasonable, let me know.
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09-11-2018, 14:16   #11
DubCount
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayCun View Post
If the situation for landlords in Ireland is so terrible, why are UK landlords investing here?
I'm sure there are some landlords from the UK and elsewhere investing in Ireland. Maybe they are attracted by high gross yields. Maybe they have not understood the risks. Still, at a time when rents are increasing, demand is a saturation relative to supply, and gross yields are high by international standards - The number of landlords and tenancies registered with the RTB is falling. Dont be fooled by the media or the government - High risk = high price.

A few foreign investors is not changing the overall market direction.
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09-11-2018, 16:29   #12
Andycap8
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There's your source

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldFirst
Research conducted by WorldFirst UK. All property prices and rental figures retrieved from Numbeo Cost of Living Tracker, September 2018. Numbeo is the world’s largest database of user contributed date about cities and countries worldwide. Full breakdown available on request
(where the rent figures come from) Numbeo complies "cost of living" data - like a survey. For Ireland they've 1,200 unique contributors.

(where the property price figure come from) Numbeo complies "pricing & rent information" again from internet users. For Ireland they had 213 unique contributors.

The "yields" they reference are gross yields, not net yields.
For their cost to income ratios they use user submitted "net income figures" for ireland it is €2,210, for Dublin it is €2,414 (so dublin net incomes are only 9% higher than all of ireland). Those net income figures equate to approx €30k & €35k gross salaires. That salary would qualify someone in Dublin for social housing.

WorldFirst is a payments company, not an investment advisory company.
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09-11-2018, 16:44   #13
Pheonix10
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Has there ever been a better time to be a landlord? All of them milking it these days. They should be praising the current system and not an ounce of a complaint.
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09-11-2018, 16:58   #14
Baby01032012
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Never been a worse time you mean. RTB, threshold and government intent on pushing small landlords out..rent caps...6 years security of tenure for tenants...up to 2 years to get tenant out if they stop paying rent etc.
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09-11-2018, 17:16   #15
Pheonix10
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Never been a worse time you mean. RTB, threshold and government intent on pushing small landlords out..rent caps...6 years security of tenure for tenants...up to 2 years to get tenant out if they stop paying rent etc.
You have the highest rents of all time!
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