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29-05-2018, 16:41   #16
GGTrek
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Well as previous poster mrslancaster mentioned the Dail is going ahead tonight by putting student accommodation under the remit of the RTB and RPZ. As usual Sinn Feinn is leading the charge. They are still hoping that thousands of student accommodations will be built after passing such law! The lefties at the student unions do not seem to understand that the rent caps will not apply to newly built accommodation (unless some last minute amendment is added).

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0529/966744-housing-tenancy/
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29-05-2018, 17:26   #17
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It may also mean that the building of student accommodations units will slow down or stop.
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29-05-2018, 18:51   #18
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So is there any way of tracking the progress of the government bill, or any of the proposals involved?
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29-05-2018, 19:06   #19
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Look up oireachtas.ie

The chances of any of these bills becoming law is quite low.
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29-05-2018, 19:29   #20
Scienceless
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Look up oireachtas.ie

The chances of any of these bills becoming law is quite low.
I’m assuming you mean the bills quoted in the first post in this thread?

Came across this online:

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/defa...es_final_2.pdf

It mentions several issues to be addressed and says work is underway to draw up a government bill to do so on page 11.
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30-05-2018, 18:05   #21
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This was the debate yesterday on Student Accommodation rent caps proposals:
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates...2018-05-29/41/
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates...2018-05-29/42/
It will be put now into committee stage, so it will take months before it goes back to the Dail for vote.

The most important part of the debate (apart from the bu...t from the amateur TDs who clearly proposed the amendment of the RTA without any legal advice) is the following from the govvie (I put the most important parts in bold):
"I am happy to tease that through with the Deputy but the most important element is that different aspects of licensing versus tenancy have different rights. I have a copy of the UCD licence and I am happy to give it to the Deputy. There are very specific details contained in it about what a licensee is entitled to and the service he or she will get and can expect. It is very different to a tenancy agreement. This is about looking to make sure we have the right legislation to protect people and to make sure that if we intervene in this area we can give the students the protection they need. We must ensure the legislation cannot be challenged and fail at a later stage.

When we debated rent pressure zones and changes in that regard I recall that a lot of our work was based on scientific data to make sure we got it right, that we would not lose a challenge if it happened and by intervening in a positive way that we could defend. We are not confident that the Bill put forward by Sinn Féin would put us in that position as there is still a bit of work to be done behind those ideas.

There is a risk that the expected supply of student accommodation coming on stream could be negatively affected by the proposed application of the Residential Tenancies Acts to student-specific accommodation provided under licence agreement. It does not mean that we do not intervene. It does not mean that we do not do anything, but we have to measure it and balance it to make sure we get it right. There is a fair increase in accommodation being brought through the system.

While the Government is not in a position to support the Bill at this stage, we do not oppose it. The Departments of Education and Skills and Housing, Planning and Local Government will consider the Bill's proposals further. They have been doing so in recent times. In the event it is considered that there is a policy-based case for legislation in this area, proposals will be introduced, either in a stand-alone Bill or in the context of the second of two residential tenancies (amendment) Bills envisaged for this year. It is not a case of telling students that we do not support them or are not with them. Rather, we want to get this right."

I believe the most important debate will be today to see the position of the government on the communist RTA amendment proposde by Jan O'Sullivan. What I am interested in is the position of the government, because it will give a good hint about what the government is willing or unwilling to accept and what will go through this year. If for example the government is willing to impose that Ireland can only have indefinite tenancies by removing Section 34(b) (like the communist proposal is trying to do) then I am done with Ireland, since it is for all effects an expropriation of property by tenancy. Even marriages nowadays can be broken, why a tenancy cannot be terminated if one of the parties is not willing to continue it! This is pure communist thinking and unacceptable for me.
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30-05-2018, 22:58   #22
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The debate on the communist proposal from Jan O'Sullivan has just been published and it is mixed news.
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates...2018-05-30/29/

The not too bad news:
- termination due to selling will be kept, since they say it would be "uncostitutional" to remove this possibility
- there will not be a blanket extension of RPZ to the whole of Ireland and change the 4% rule to the CPI
- the definition of family for termination notices will not be changed

The very bad news:
- it seems that the govvie will agree that one month deposit is the maximum allowed (this can be easily overcome by charging more than one month rent in advance or the last month rent in advance) but it is a big interference on the risk sustained by landlords where one month deposit was fine in 2003 when you were sure that in 28 days you could perform a peaceful re-entry if the tenant was not paying, not now
- it looks like there is chance that Section 34(b) will be abolished which means indefinite tenant agreements for landlords and at will tenancies for tenants (short notice period and they are off!). This is a deal breaker for me, since it is expropration by the backdoor

What the govvie said:

[This is the June Bill]"When enacted, the legislation will make it an offence to contravene the rent pressure zones, allow the Residential Tenancies Board to investigate and enforce independently the implementation of rent pressure zones and other measures, give greater security of tenure by extending notice to quit periods, in many instances, almost doubling them, and provide for rent transparency, which is welcomed by all sides of the House. The Bill will be published shortly. It was meant to happen this week, but there has been a slight delay. I hope it can be enacted before the summer recess, but it depends on how quickly we can get it through the Houses. That should not be difficult, given that its measures are supported, but if amendments to the Bill might be better suited to a second Bill that will be before us later in the year, I would prefer that option to be taken in order that the first Bill, on which there is broad agreement, can be passed by the Oireachtas before the summer recess. The second Bill will deal with more complex issues [I wonder which are these complex issues!] and need more time to be walked through by the House...
We support the publication of rents payable to ensure rent transparency. We support the proposal on a deposit not exceeding one month's rent...
On tenancies of indefinite duration, extending a Part 4 tenancy from four years to six has happened, but we need to go further. [further than what!]...
The Minister, Deputy Murphy, addressed the changes proposed in Deputy Jan O'Sullivan’s Bill. We agree with parts of it but we cannot agree with it all. We are bringing in a Bill ourselves in the month ahead. Hopefully, we can include some of these proposals in that. A second Bill is being published for the autumn. With a bit of effort, we may be able to squeeze things in. Everything one does when one intervenes in the rental market must be analysed carefully, which the Deputies opposite will appreciate. That is why things will be done in the autumn if it is not possible to get them through in this Bill or the Bill coming through in June. "

So the govvie will propose his first bill in June and a second one in the Autumn, again the rules of the game are being changed twice in the same year and they are all against landlords. Instead of focusing on supply the govvie and the TDs are tinkering again and again with the RTA causing again and again instability in the rental market. Some TDs were blabbering about the high taxes and incentives for landlords, but it was just the usual bu..it with no consequences. No mention of the massive problem of overholding and starting to put serious financial penalties on overholding tenants or streamlining the RTB process by removing the lengthy appeals and making determination orders directly enforceable. Absolutely no incentives for landlords as usual. Some bu...t TD said that rents should halve by magic! These people and the govvie are a joke but they cause serious problems.
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31-05-2018, 04:23   #23
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On tenancies of indefinite duration, extending a Part 4 tenancy from four years to six has happened, but we need to go further.
I wonder what effect will this have on the amount of places to rent in the next year or so?
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31-05-2018, 08:02   #24
GGTrek
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The net effect will be a further reduction of rented accommodation supply since the socialist one size fits all does not fit the vast majority of landlords. Indefinite tenancies have always been introduced by socialists/communists with their limited understanding of economics.

For me personally it is a deal breaker: I shall not allow any person to own my property just by paying a monthly fee whose value is decided by a third party called government. If indefinite tenancies are introduced, I am selling everything.
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31-05-2018, 09:20   #25
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Is there no landlord association or lobby group that can fight this from the other side? Who is advocating for rights to landlords? If legislation is at the proposal stage then pressure should be put on for quick evictions and solutions for the problem tenants.
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31-05-2018, 09:40   #26
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Is there no landlord association or lobby group that can fight this from the other side? Who is advocating for rights to landlords?
IPOA and RLAI.
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31-05-2018, 12:33   #27
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Is there no landlord association or lobby group that can fight this from the other side? Who is advocating for rights to landlords?
IPOA and RLAI.
Yes, run like a senior citizens club. I tried twice to get answers from them about their lobbying efforts, never received an answer, I gave up.
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31-05-2018, 13:02   #28
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Yes, run like a senior citizens club.
Sounds representative of Irish landlords
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31-05-2018, 13:12   #29
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Yes, run like a senior citizens club. I tried twice to get answers from them about their lobbying efforts, never received an answer, I gave up.
Problem is when they do try and do something they get called a cartel, and accused of price fixing. Different rules apply to them.
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31-05-2018, 13:21   #30
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Are you able to expense IPOA membership? If all LL were a member of a decent organization at least we would have some clout behind us. At the moment, the only way i see this happening is when a REIT get strong enough they will do the heavy hitting for us and the ironic thing is that is what tenants want.

I saw on the news today there will be over 1000 build to rent apartments in cherrywood.
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