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Cold room in winter.

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  • 27-05-2020 9:53pm
    #1
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭


    Hi guys this room does be very cold in winter time,has 1 radiator and it's about 9ft x 9ft and about 12 ft high.

    I've added some pics as I'm completely renovating the room from top to bottom I've pulled out the old skirting boards and have attached pics of where there is gaps between walls and floor boards.

    Its a suspended floor thats about 3ft or more off the ground and there's a outside vent down below the window where the air goes in to the suspended floor and that air in winter is coming up throught the gaps at the floor boards to wall taking any warm air in the room and making it cold.

    What can I do to the gaps between walls and floor boards ??
    Insulating foam??.

    https://ibb.co/588ZpbH

    https://ibb.co/1JBgsqN

    https://ibb.co/4FmMb6Y


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    #2
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    anyone??


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    #3
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Not sure what's going over those floorboards, but the least effort quick fix is to put down an airtight vapour control membrane (intello or equivalent) over the whole floor area, bring it up to mid-skirting level and tape it to the walls with airtight tape.

    It's not the best approach - ideally you want the membrane under the flooboards, and insulation between the joists, but not sure how much effort you're prepared to spend.


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    #4
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    https://www.nsai.ie/about/news/publication-of-sr-542014-code-of-practice

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #5
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    Not sure what's going over those floorboards, but the least effort quick fix is to put down an airtight vapour control membrane (intello or equivalent) over the whole floor area, bring it up to mid-skirting level and tape it to the walls with airtight tape.

    It's not the best approach - ideally you want the membrane under the flooboards, and insulation between the joists, but not sure how much effort you're prepared to spend.

    Am putting underlay and carpet over the floor boards.
    Ye the vapour membrane sounds the best solution for me as pulling up all the floor boards is a bigger job.

    So will go with the membrane and tape it half way up the skirting walls and seal it as best as I can.


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    #6
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Seems like a bit of a missed opportunity to do a half job given that you have the skirting off and carpets up.


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    #7
    Mad_Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭Mad_Mike


    I know your post primarily concerns the floor boards and underneath, which will help with draughts, but a few other things to look at to help make it warmer...

    You mention it's 12ft high.
    Would some kind of false ceiling be possible and lower the height of the room and pack that with insulation as the roof/ceiling in any situation is one of the main places for heat loss?

    Is the window single or double glazed? Is it well sealed or are there draughts around the window also?

    The room is already not a huge room at 9' x 9', but you could add insulated plasterboards to any external walls without losing too much space, maybe 63mm boards (50mm insulation with 12.5 plasterboard?


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    #8
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Mad_Mike wrote: »
    I know your post primarily concerns the floor boards and underneath, which will help with draughts, but a few other things to look at to help make it warmer...

    You mention it's 12ft high.
    Would some kind of false ceiling be possible and lower the height of the room and pack that with insulation as the roof/ceiling in any situation is one of the main places for heat loss?

    Is the window single or double glazed? Is it well sealed or are there draughts around the window also?

    The room is already not a huge room at 9' x 9', but you could add insulated plasterboards to any external walls without losing too much space, maybe 63mm boards (50mm insulation with 12.5 plasterboard?

    Hi correction on the 12ft high ceiling,it's actually 9ft4 inches high.
    The attic was fully insulated about 4 yrs ago.

    The window is a PVC double glazed window that was fitted about 3 yrs ago by Munster joinery and there is no draughts around it etc

    The window wall is plasterboard that's insulated behind it.
    I feel a lot of cold air is coming up from the suspended floor with a vent underneath the floor outside.

    So I really have to sort that out the gaps from floor boards to the wall.

    I presume you meant internal insulated plaster boards.


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    #9
    LenWoods
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭LenWoods


    You may consider fitting a steel Milano designer radiator as part of the renovation
    I've fitted them throughout my house; started off with just doing the living room and hallway but the quality and increase in heat output due to there design; I then changed the entire house to them,
    They have more surface to air contact this spreading more heat and they look fantastic

    Link to my thread: https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/80864-living-room-project/


    Purchased from bestheating.ie
    They do monthly offers if you subscribe keep an eye for your radiator size to come up cheaper,
    Also check the BTU output of the Milano radiator compared to that of a standard radiator


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    #10
    crossmolinalad
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    Lumen wrote: »
    Not sure what's going over those floorboards, but the least effort quick fix is to put down an airtight vapour control membrane (intello or equivalent) over the whole floor area, bring it up to mid-skirting level and tape it to the walls with airtight tape.

    It's not the best approach - ideally you want the membrane under the flooboards, and insulation between the joists, but not sure how much effort you're prepared to spend.

    That's what we did ,was a space between the floorboards and the concrete of 50 cm
    Made a acces in the floor between two joists and gone under the floor to isulate it putting in sheets of rockwool between the joists and filling up the gaps with extra rockwool at the walls
    When finished closed the hatch made in the floor with the boards that came out of it


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    #11
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    crossmolinalad wrote: »
    That's what we did ,was a space between the floorboards and the concrete of 50 cm
    Made a acces in the floor between two joists and gone under the floor to isulate it putting in sheets of rockwool between the joists and filling up the gaps with extra rockwool at the walls
    When finished closed the hatch made in the floor with the boards that came out of it

    What's it like crawling around that small space?


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    #12
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    I was thinking of putting down the vapour control membrane over the original floor boards and then putting some 8 x 4 sheets of ply over that with the underlay and carpet to finish,what ye guys think on the ply ??.


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    #13
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bassy wrote: »
    I was thinking of putting down the vapour control membrane over the original floor boards and then putting some 8 x 4 sheets of ply over that with the underlay and carpet to finish,what ye guys think on the ply ??.
    Why don't you want to take up the floorboards?

    What sort are they?


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    #14
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    Why don't you want to take up the floorboards?

    What sort are they?

    there going back under a partition used to be one big room,yrs ago we built on a extension so the hallway was made from the room and that's the partition wall from hallway to bedroom and the flooring is going under the partition.


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    #15
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    there just normal floor boards nothing fancy.


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    #16
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I wouldn't bother with the ply, it'll just mess with your threshold levels.


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    #17
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    I wouldn't bother with the ply, it'll just mess with your threshold levels.

    excuse my stupidity,what you mean by threshold levels?.


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    #18
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bassy wrote: »
    excuse my stupidity,what you mean by threshold levels?.

    The floor levels between rooms. If you add ply you'll have a level difference to deal with.


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    #19
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    The floor levels between rooms. If you add ply you'll have a level difference to deal with.

    that's not really a problem to be honest.


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    #20
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    Why don't you want to take up the floorboards?

    What sort are they?

    Hi m8 if I pull up the floor boards do I put a breathable membrane under the Joyce's and then say rockwool between the Joyce's and then breathable membrane over the rockwool insulation and tape it half way up the skirting walls.

    Would that be correct ?.


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    #21
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,747 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    bassy wrote: »
    Hi m8 if I pull up the floor boards do I put a breathable membrane under the Joyce's and then say rockwool between the Joyce's and then breathable membrane over the rockwool insulation and tape it half way up the skirting walls.

    Would that be correct ?.

    Joists:pac:


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    #22
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    Joists:pac:

    aye lol


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    #23
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bassy wrote: »
    Hi m8 if I pull up the floor boards do I put a breathable membrane under the Joyce's and then say rockwool between the Joyce's and then breathable membrane over the rockwool insulation and tape it half way up the skirting walls.

    Would that be correct ?.

    The vapour control membrane goes on the warm side of the insulation, so on top.

    Think about how you're going to support the rockwool from underneath. I used wind proof membrane over the joists and under the insulation, but didn't like the result. Next time I might try stapling some kind of mesh, e.g. weldmesh or chicken wire, to the underneath of the joists, but access can be awkward.

    Alternatively, if the insulation is stiff enough e.g. acoustic rockwool or metac, maybe builders line looped tight around the joists might do it.

    Make sure you keep the underfloor vents clear and ensure the cavity is properly closed or else you get cold air circulating in the cavity.

    If your joists are really shallow (mine were) you can batten the bottom to extend. I did.


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    #24
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    you can get insulating underlay for carpet and solid/laminate flooring. Membrane+Underlay+Flooring should sort out any draughts and make the floor warmer. Pulling up the boards is a big job...


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    #25
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    The vapour control membrane goes on the warm side of the insulation, so on top.

    Think about how you're going to support the rockwool from underneath. I used wind proof membrane over the joists and under the insulation, but didn't like the result. Next time I might try stapling some kind of mesh, e.g. weldmesh or chicken wire, to the underneath of the joists, but access can be awkward.

    Alternatively, if the insulation is stiff enough e.g. acoustic rockwool or metac, maybe builders line looped tight around the joists might do it.

    Make sure you keep the underfloor vents clear and ensure the cavity is properly closed or else you get cold air circulating in the cavity.

    If your joists are really shallow (mine were) you can batten the bottom to extend. I did.

    Lumen what tape do you recommend for sticking the membrane have way up the concrete skirting walls?.thanks.


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    #26
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bassy wrote: »
    what tape do you recommend for sticking the membrane have way up the concrete skirting walls?.thanks.

    I've used Pro Clima tapes, Tescon and Uni. Of those, I didn't really like the Uni tape as it's not flexible and in my house the wall under the skirting is rough blocks (which I first sealed with Blowerproof air tight paint); the paper tape is hard to get a good seal against whereas the flexible Tescon tapes work better.

    Siga have similar products. It looks like their Vario Bond tapes have a pre-split backing, which is really handy.

    If your wall is smooth then the cheaper paper tapes are fine, but it's good to have some flexible tape for awkward junctions.

    Air tightness work punishes sloppiness. You're fighting air pressure differences, and just like a puncture in a bicycle tyre, the smallest hole can leak a lot of air.


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    #27
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    I've used Pro Clima tapes, Tescon and Uni. Of those, I didn't really like the Uni tape as it's not flexible and in my house the wall under the skirting is rough blocks (which I first sealed with Blowerproof air tight paint); the paper tape is hard to get a good seal against whereas the flexible Tescon tapes work better.

    Siga have similar products. It looks like their Vario Bond tapes have a pre-split backing, which is really handy.

    If your wall is smooth then the cheaper paper tapes are fine, but it's good to have some flexible tape for awkward junctions.

    Air tightness work punishes sloppiness. You're fighting air pressure differences, and just like a puncture in a bicycle tyre, the smallest hole can leak a lot of air.

    My walls are precast concrete behind the skirting,my whole house is precast concrete apart from our back extension.

    What tape be best for bare precast concrete walls


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    #28
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    flloor took out and layed 200mm of rockwool insulation between the joists,new double rad installed today.
    all ive to do now is put the membrane over the insulation and halfway up the skirting and then put the new floor boards down.

    im happy now i ripped out the old floor boards as i discovered a lot of woodworm in most of them.thanks lumen for pushing me on the floor boards i can now truly see why you wanted me to take them up and im so glad i did.


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    #29
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    On the subject of tapes, I was in Brookes today and bought a roll of outdoor air tightness tape.

    Fifty quid! I think Ecological Building Systems where I got all my tapes before was more like thirty.

    So shop around if you haven't already.


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    #30
    bassy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭bassy


    Lumen wrote: »
    On the subject of tapes, I was in Brookes today and bought a roll of outdoor air tightness tape.

    Fifty quid! I think Ecological Building Systems where I got all my tapes before was more like thirty.

    So shop around if you haven't already.

    picked up a roll of gorilla duct tape,would that be ok lumen ??.


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    #31
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bassy wrote: »
    picked up a roll of gorilla duct tape,would that be ok lumen ??.

    Nope! You need proper air tight tape.


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