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What Is the real origin of the surname Miskimmins

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Comments

  • #32
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    owenc wrote: »
    Aw sorry if i offended you, no its not that they don't like the name its just that everyone around here used to call my grandparents that and they didn't like it at all!:D So we are church of ireland then? Really thats interesting because my family where church of ireland in the 1700s i was really surprised and so was everyone else in my family because we all thought we were all presbyterian way back but it turns out not that didn't go down well either i must say!!:D Do you know anything about that btw??? I thought scottish people would be presbyterian. Well i don't think thats the liam i know because he doesn't care about genealogy. I think this may be the other family in limavady that split off us,especially with that spelling. Its great that i have found you two because my name is rare and i don't know anyone else with it! How far back have you gotten. Where does your family think yous are from? Have you got any family folk lore?
    no offence taken Owen, I have been able to get back to 1750 we have always been told the family originate in Scotland, however have been unable to make that connection everything seems to stop in N Ireland in the 1750's. I have seen some of the family from Londonderry on some of the sites but didn't really dig in to that side. Also there are quite a lot of Miskimmin in Belfast Carrickfergus and it is from these families that Bob's descendants probably come from. The Liam I was speaking about informed me that his ancestor put it in the Coleraine paper that he would sue anyone who called him Miskimmin.............he must not have liked it either:(


  • #33
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    barbarax wrote: »
    no offence taken Owen, I have been able to get back to 1750 we have always been told the family originate in Scotland, however have been unable to make that connection everything seems to stop in N Ireland in the 1750's. I have seen some of the family from Londonderry on some of the sites but didn't really dig in to that side. Also there are quite a lot of Miskimmin in Belfast Carrickfergus and it is from these families that Bob's descendants probably come from. The Liam I was speaking about informed me that his ancestor put it in the Coleraine paper that he would sue anyone who called him Miskimmin.............he must not have liked it either:(

    Its alright. Yes i got a little bit further back 1720 or so. I have found out who brought us over and that was lord mcclelland from kirkcudbright so we are definately scottish its just where are we from? I'll hopefully find that out soon when i look at the estate records in proni in the summer. You should look at the muster rolls of montgomery and hamitlton estates theres bound to be something.. i am told that the estate records for the mcclellands are very good and it tells the folk were the family are from in scotland! So that should be exciting! Yes that would be us that must be my american ancestors they are all catholic that is what he is going on about (the most of them married catholics) and they sent out a report in the newspaper to find us but i didn't know it said that! Good god i'm still killing myself laughing at that! :pac: I'll not tell you how they ended up there! That would be naughty!


  • #34
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    bobthefarmer wrote: »
    Very well, Cousins. Owen, she is right! NI is a big place and it would be nice if we could find our way back three hundred years. Hoping for linkage. We all can correspond via private email. When you look at the myriad of data on web, most people only get five generations before their stuff is hanging by threads. When your family has held stuff tightly together, you can be blessed as I am to know about 10 generations in American and a couple generations in the mother lands. I wish I knew my mother tongue. It would be good to visit NI, as my 86 year old father would like to do still (His Bucket List). If we flew into Dublin, do you think I could navigate on the wrong side of the road?

    Ofcourse you would Bob, Owen is right it would be better flying into Belfast. It would probably be better private emails, I could send you a copy of my Miskimmin tree, would also be interested seeing yours and Owens.:D


  • #35
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Here are some links if the any of you two are intrested in the estate papers...

    http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/exhibitions_talks_and_events/proni_on_the_record_online/earl_of_antrim_papers.htm

    http://www.proni.gov.uk/your_family_tree_series_-_12_-_militia__yeomanry_lists_and_muster_rolls.pdf

    http://www.billmacafee.com/estates/landlords/estaterecordsextantderry.pdf

    Thats all i could find, as you can see the clothworkers estate records seem to be the most detailed..


  • #36
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    Forgot to say the ancestor Liam speaks of is called Joe Miskimmin which would be short for Joseph.


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  • #37
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    barbarax wrote: »
    Forgot to say the ancestor Liam speaks of is called Joe Miskimmin which would be short for Joseph.

    Ok i have no idea who that is! and i've gotten the family back to the 1720s and i know everyone in the family. I suggest that hes just talking tripe and dosn't know what hes talking about! :) The person who changed to miskimmin in my family was a david miskimmin.. but his son changed to cummins he is my ggg grandfather david is the gggg grandfather! What is the spelling of the liam you speak of? the surname that is... Btw if that is my relative please don't be contacting him because he'll probably say something to me! (my family are really bitter about geneology)


  • #38
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    Wouldn't do that Owen anyway I have lost touch with him. His spelling was cummings, it was true as I found it on Emerald ancestors. I will have to look it out. Have you been on the mormon site familysearch.org type in Miskimmin and Northern Ireland you will find all the different spellings noticed miscummin/s


  • #39
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    I believe my Great Grandfather was Joseph Miskimmin who came to Limavady in ?? could have been 1890- 1895 and married a widow woman Clarence who's maiden name may have been Holmes. There is a belief that when Joe got married he became catholic from one of the protestant faiths and changed his name to Cummings. I've got a sister in Limavady who is going to search the parish records next week to see if she can get anything on the marriage. There is a belief the Joe came from Coleraine direction and in fact in the phone book there is a Miskinnins listed in Portstewart and Aghadowey, both not far from Coleraine. Any chance Joe originated from your neck of the woods? Where did the name originate?
    Thanks Barbara
    Owen this is the content from one of the emails Liam sent ring any bells apparently Joe's son was called Samuel.:confused:


  • #40
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    bobthefarmer wrote: »
    ... I wish I knew my mother tongue...

    I say this with no malice: I hope that you do not presume that your mother tongue is Irish.


  • #41
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    certainly not Bob


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  • #42
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    barbarax wrote: »
    I believe my Great Grandfather was Joseph Miskimmin who came to Limavady in ?? could have been 1890- 1895 and married a widow woman Clarence who's maiden name may have been Holmes. There is a belief that when Joe got married he became catholic from one of the protestant faiths and changed his name to Cummings. I've got a sister in Limavady who is going to search the parish records next week to see if she can get anything on the marriage. There is a belief the Joe came from Coleraine direction and in fact in the phone book there is a Miskinnins listed in Portstewart and Aghadowey, both not far from Coleraine. Any chance Joe originated from your neck of the woods? Where did the name originate?
    Thanks Barbara
    Owen this is the content from one of the emails Liam sent ring any bells apparently Joe's son was called Samuel.:confused:

    Hi that must be the catholic family thats definitely not us! There are two cummins families in the county but we were all originally one we were miskimmins in the 1600s and 1700s and then we changed names and they converted to catholism and we converted to presbyterianism. He must be related to me i wonder who he is.. yes samuel is a common name in my family my father is called samuel, so is my g grandfather, and my gggggg grandfather and my ggg uncle! There is also another possibility but that is how i believe they came to be catholic but maybe he is the one who converted them! There is a cummings family in limavady and everytime we see someone there everyone thinks we are catholic and they spell our name wrong! It does my head in! :mad: Here are the two families in the 1911 census :

    Mines :

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Ringrash_More/588338/

    Samuel is my g grandfather and james is my gg grandfather.

    Theirs:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Aghanloo/Ballycastle/594029/
    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Ballylagan/Glenmanus/595503/

    There family is really large and ours is very small which is very depressing the name is quite common in limavady but here it is very rare! Oh and joe miskimmin well i don't know but i had a great uncle called joe but he was cummins and he lived over here in and coleraine and he certainly wasn't catholic maybe they are cousins or something.. :confused: Btw that joe is in the census posted above.


  • #43
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Hi barbarax ive just been in contact with that boys sister and apparently he's a republican and their family are all catholic!! :eek: Anyway he has gotten the family quite far back and I think he traced it back to Scotland I'm not sure but they are sending me more information and apparently they changed names because we were gypsies and they didnt want anything to do with us... I've got another version of the story I think it may be to do with that! We weren't gypsies one of my g uncles did something very bad to do with gypsies ...


  • #44
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,614 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    OwenC,

    I don't know why you think that all people with a version of Cummins are related to you but it's entirely possible that one family within a wider family group converted to Catholicism/any other religion and the rest stayed Presbyterian. People in Ireland have been shown to swap around the different christian denominations. There's even documented evidence showing some French Huguenots, within a couple of generations of fleeing France for persecution, had switched to Catholicism. Most people will have mixed denomination marriages in their ancestry.

    P.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #45
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    OwenC,

    I don't know why you think that all people with a version of Cummins are related to you but it's entirely possible that one family within a wider family group converted to Catholicism/any other religion and the rest stayed Presbyterian. People in Ireland have been shown to swap around the different christian denominations. There's even documented evidence showing some French Huguenots, within a couple of generations of fleeing France for persecution, had switched to Catholicism. Most people will have mixed denomination marriages in their ancestry.

    P.

    I already knew that...:confused: i was just saying.. :confused:


  • #46
    barbarax
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭barbarax


    owenc wrote: »
    Hi barbarax ive just been in contact with that boys sister and apparently he's a republican and their family are all catholic!! :eek: Anyway he has gotten the family quite far back and I think he traced it back to Scotland I'm not sure but they are sending me more information and apparently they changed names because we were gypsies and they didnt want anything to do with us... I've got another version of the story I think it may be to do with that! We weren't gypsies one of my g uncles did something very bad to do with gypsies ...

    Owen methinks we will have to go to personal email this is becoming too intriguing. Like how did you contact the sister?? Why did she give you this info i.e. republican and gypsies.................................:(


  • #47
    bobthefarmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭bobthefarmer


    barbarax wrote: »
    Wouldn't do that Owen anyway I have lost touch with him. His spelling was cummings, it was true as I found it on Emerald ancestors. I will have to look it out. Have you been on the mormon site familysearch.org type in Miskimmin and Northern Ireland you will find all the different spellings noticed miscummin/s

    At times, people get a little VIRAL on the Morman site because they have a different mission. I would not be taking too much info as Certain Truth on that site. It can be a guide. Spelling was kind of not second nature to the frontiers in this country. Nice to hear from you outside of facebook. I think you know my email address. Owen, I gave you mine on a private message. I hope you all record WHOLE families when doing your research. I can pretty much trace the descendants of David and Rachel Miskimmins to the last generation in this country. Many other migrations have come since then and they are much more sparse than our family. Owen, I looked at the estate records and found stuff in Ireland, but not in NI, UK. I see the muster role films. are these rented or scanned to the web? Barbarax, should I look in County Down as well as County Antrim? I know he came from Carrickfergus 1748 and was a weavers son. Would either of you like a WORD copy of A tour of Ireland by Arthur Young, ca 1776-1781? I could email it. It said that weavers were aplenty in Antrim (County or city?)


  • #48
    bobthefarmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭bobthefarmer


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    OwenC,

    I don't know why you think that all people with a version of Cummins are related to you but it's entirely possible that one family within a wider family group converted to Catholicism/any other religion and the rest stayed Presbyterian. People in Ireland have been shown to swap around the different christian denominations. There's even documented evidence showing some French Huguenots, within a couple of generations of fleeing France for persecution, had switched to Catholicism. Most people will have mixed denomination marriages in their ancestry.

    P.

    I find that hard to believe. I have struggled with the question though. If there was intermarriage maybe, but direct conversion from something Calvanistic to Catholisism? By the Test Act of 1704, maybe they publicly paid tithe and this is what represents them as Catholic. OwenC spoke about that before in this thread. One side you make the Tithe and can have political autonomy, the other is you stick to your guns and become a second class non-citizen, the choice was yours. My relatives decided the later was not too nice and so made a move with their feet (emigration). Back to Scotland was a mean choice, so they bonded themselves to what was near slavery for seven years to pay for their passage, as mine did. He fell into the hands of an Awesome God who landed him at the feet of Abraham Ferree. He later found favor to win the heart of Abraham's daughter Rachel. People can be wishy-washy at times, but I don't find the Presbyterians and Huguenots to be that was at the time, it doesn't fit in history written of that time. I also know many Huguenots landed on there feet in Belfast and established quite a industry in weaving and such (in the Plantation Era post 1650). My Humble Opinion (to solicit ideas surrounding the subject) BobthePlanterFarmer


  • #49
    bobthefarmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭bobthefarmer


    owenc wrote: »
    Here are some links if the any of you two are intrested in the estate papers...

    http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/exhibitions_talks_and_events/proni_on_the_record_online/earl_of_antrim_papers.htm

    http://www.proni.gov.uk/your_family_tree_series_-_12_-_militia__yeomanry_lists_and_muster_rolls.pdf

    http://www.billmacafee.com/estates/landlords/estaterecordsextantderry.pdf

    Thats all i could find, as you can see the clothworkers estate records seem to be the most detailed..

    Yes, how do I get ahold of the clothworkers Union decision of 1741 in Coleraine? This is close to County Antrim and Limavady. This was also about the time of a Famine (not the potato famine of 1850's) which saw a great flux of emigrants to the COLONIES (USA). Barbarax and OwenC, how do you see patterns of movement of peoples in the early 1700s? Were they fixed to their plantation or Freemen and bid their trades to establish higher rate of income?

    OwenC, I looked at the Lord of Antrim, thing, and did not see how to access this online. ANy thoughs?


  • #50
    bobthefarmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭bobthefarmer


    I saw the Londonderry list and found the names very intriguing. I bet more thatn half are now American Names as well. I know Young, McAfee, McCracken, Wilson ( a past president), any many others. Why do people want to associate with Ireland? For most of us here, we do so once a year on March 17 (not me included, although I was in NY City for the big parade one year). It is good to call on your roots from time to time.


  • #51
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    bobthefarmer wrote: »
    Yes, how do I get ahold of the clothworkers Union decision of 1741 in Coleraine? This is close to County Antrim and Limavady. This was also about the time of a Famine (not the potato famine of 1850's) which saw a great flux of emigrants to the COLONIES (USA). Barbarax and OwenC, how do you see patterns of movement of peoples in the early 1700s? Were they fixed to their plantation or Freemen and bid their trades to establish higher rate of income?

    OwenC, I looked at the Lord of Antrim, thing, and did not see how to access this online. ANy thoughs?

    Sorry what Is that document? Anyway you will have to goto proni to access that and if you want to see estate records you will have to do the same sorry... Ya why can't they have
    everything online! Well my own family moved about 5miles at the bear maximum I'n the
    1700s and it's funny because ever since we landed In Coleraine in 1620 we have not left and we are all virtually In the exact same place as we landed then which us amazing!? We have a
    family I'n America too much like you but they aren't ment to be there they were forced there
    and we Lost land and everything because of it ... http://www.billmacafee.com/1630musterrolls/1630musterrollsantrim.pdf you could try the muster roll of north antrum it mentions the lord of Antrim .. By the sounds of things your
    family was planted by one of the south Antrim familes... Here is a map which shos you all the undertakers http://ancestryireland.com/scotsinulster/Scottish%20Undertakers/Scottish_Undertakers.html it shows you a rough guideline were all the folks came from mind you the people couldve Been highered from further a field.. It'll help you were to look in estate records..


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  • #52
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    bobthefarmer wrote: »
    I saw the Londonderry list and found the names very intriguing. I bet more thatn half are now American Names as well. I know Young, McAfee, McCracken, Wilson ( a past president), any many others. Why do people want to associate with Ireland? For most of us here, we do so once a year on March 17 (not me included, although I was in NY City for the big parade one year). It is good to call on your roots from time to time.

    I don't know either I have family In America and they are the complete opposite to us they are complete nutters and they support Celtic and all this... They have all converted to be catholics because you see you aren't "Irish" if you aren't catholic! And there's one of them who's a republican type person and he's doing the tree and he's trying to link us up with this family Down south when we have absolutely no links with down south whatsoever he also thinks we used to be catholic I think my ancestors would roll under their graves if they heard him?! He thinks we aren't ulster scots aswell because our name Is I'n the Irish form but I don't care because we are ulster scots whether he likes it or not especially when they are I'n the muster rolls! And I hate it when you goto America and some ones will say o my ggg ggg grand uncle is from cork seriously I lce closer to Scotland and I couldn't give a crud! Americans dont seem to know much about northern Ireland anyway!?


  • #53
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    bobthefarmer wrote: »
    I find that hard to believe. I have struggled with the question though. If there was intermarriage maybe, but direct conversion from something Calvanistic to Catholisism? By the Test Act of 1704, maybe they publicly paid tithe and this is what represents them as Catholic. OwenC spoke about that before in this thread. One side you make the Tithe and can have political autonomy, the other is you stick to your guns and become a second class non-citizen, the choice was yours. My relatives decided the later was not too nice and so made a move with their feet (emigration). Back to Scotland was a mean choice, so they bonded themselves to what was near slavery for seven years to pay for their passage, as mine did. He fell into the hands of an Awesome God who landed him at the feet of Abraham Ferree. He later found favor to win the heart of Abraham's daughter Rachel. People can be wishy-washy at times, but I don't find the Presbyterians and Huguenots to be that was at the time, it doesn't fit in history written of that time. I also know many Huguenots landed on there feet in Belfast and established quite a
    industry in weaving and such (in the Plantation Era post 1650). My Humble
    Opinion (to solicit ideas surrounding the subject) BobthePlanterFarmer

    Well I believe them because the Catholics brought out this rule that if a Protestant married a catholic that they must convert and they must make their children catholic well I'm sorry but who the he'll do they think they are that Is completely shelfish and I'm pretty sure that half the catholic population In northern Ireland are really ment to be Protestants and In my opinion I think they need to be apologising for stealing members!


  • #54
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bob is your family originally from here or do you have other links from here that you would like to research?


  • #55
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    barbarax wrote: »
    Owen methinks we will have to go to personal email this is becoming too intriguing. Like how did you contact the sister?? Why did she give you this info i.e. republican and gypsies.................................:(

    Hello I was really interested on why they are catholic and why they are a different spelling to us and why they split off us.. So I found her on one of them ancestry sites and she said that her brother is a republican not Ira lol and is researching the family and found out that they were related to "planter folk from Coleraine" and anyway she said that their family had a big split I'n the 1890s and from us because we were gypsies or something and they wanted nothing to do with us well that is creepy because we have an ancestor who caused a row I'n the family who was involved with gypsies! But we are not gypsies (I think the family were too religious and that is why a row broke out) I think their story got mixed up! Anyway that is creepy that they changed names because of that and they are really related
    to us! Mind you I dinno them from Adam Tay eve! I wonder if they were that desperate that
    they also converted! She said that he did am article about the family too so I hope she shows me that.. She also mentioned something about planters hopefully they have undercovered something?!


  • #56
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Oh yes bob I wouldn't mind reading it thanks.. How do you know your ancestor was a weaver? Were did you find this out?


  • #57
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    erm i'm talking about the 1800s considering presbyterian churches weren't even created until then! I think the catholics did it as revenge!


  • #58
    Dun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Dun


    Seeing that ecumenical law in the church comes from the Vatican, that doesn't even come into consideration. Anyway, I don't want to drag this off topic, and it was probably even against my better judgement to post that, but I don't see any reason to make spurious allegations against Catholics. And if you ever manage to go back a couple of hundred more years than you already have, I can guarantee you you'll find a whole lot of Catholics.


  • #59
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Dun wrote: »
    Seeing that ecumenical law in the church comes from the Vatican, that doesn't even come into consideration. Anyway, I don't want to drag this off topic, and it was probably even against my better judgement to post that, but I don't see any reason to make spurious allegations against Catholics. And if you ever manage to go back a couple of hundred more years than you already have, I can guarantee you you'll find a whole lot of Catholics.

    Yes i already know that, protestantism was created following Catholicism its just altered to the modern world and common-sense... Anyway i don't care my point still stands that it was inconsiderate and selfish of the catholic church to FORCE someone to convert into their beliefs/religion especially if they didn't beleive it.. its obvious all they were looking for was numbers because why else would they do that.. Actually thats what they were doing all they are interested in is numbers, sure when you leave their church they still keep you in their numbers, which in itself is selfish considering they decided to leave them! I know were i'd be telling them to go if they did that to me! I hope this rule still doesn't exist in the modern world does it? Because if it is someone should be doing something about it!


  • #60
    Dun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Dun


    They did not and never have forced another Christian to convert to Catholicism in order for a marriage to be carried out, so please stop this utter nonsense. Given what happened after the reformation, it is hardly fair to criticise the Catholic church for what they would see as looking after the interest of their own. Also, how can they keep someone in their numbers? You're not given a membership number or anything!

    Anyway, the only reason I came into this at all was because I am sorely disappointed by the way you talk about Catholicism in the same way someone might talk about something they found stuck to the bottom of their shoe.


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  • #61
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Dun wrote: »
    They did not and never have forced another Christian to convert to Catholicism in order for a marriage to be carried out, so please stop this utter nonsense. Given what happened after the reformation, it is hardly fair to criticise the Catholic church for what they would see as looking after the interest of their own. Also, how can they keep someone in their numbers? You're not given a membership number or anything!

    Anyway, the only reason I came into this at all was because I am sorely disappointed by the way you talk about Catholicism in the same way someone might talk about something they found stuck to the bottom of their shoe.

    Yes they do a protestant must convert to marry a catholic in a catholic church and the protestant must make their kids become catholics not protestant or else they will not be married! That is selfish if you ask me! Now i don't know if this rule still exists but it did exist up until not very long ago! I don't see any protestant churches doing this! No i do not i don't have any problem with them its just rules like this that annoy me! Also they are very much into members as you can see they claim to have 1 billion members but i do not believe that is true at all because as i have already said they include members who have left in those figures or lapsed catholics.


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