Is Diesel washing dead?

OldmanMondeo · 28-10-2014 9:13pm #1

So is the petrol stretching the new thing now? Have the managed to stop the diesel washing? Read some where about something new put into the diesel to stop the washing, but didn't get any more details.

28-10-2014 9:16pm

Judging from the weekly reports around Dundalk alone of the waste cubes being dumped I don't think it is.

biko · 28-10-2014 11:12pm

Come to think of it there haven't been a thread in weeks..

munchkin_utd · 29-10-2014 9:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

Judging from the weekly reports around Dundalk alone of the waste cubes being dumped I don't think it is.

could also be historical waste from years of being at diesel washing, and maybe the end game to hide all evidence.

if youre still washing diesel then keeping the gunk with the equipment makes sense as you want to keep evidence as compact as possible.
If no longer washing diesel, you dont want the gunk about the place as its the only evidence of what you were at.

Alun · 29-10-2014 2:13pm

I thought I'd read somewhere that they either had, or were going to, introduce a new (cross-border) marking system which would effectively make diesel washing impossible.

munchkin_utd · 29-10-2014 2:52pm

Alun wrote: »

I thought I'd read somewhere that they either had, or were going to, introduce a new (cross-border) marking system which would effectively make diesel washing impossible.

yup

they are adding trace amounts of radioactive matter to green and red diesel which cannot be washed out (because you cannot "wash"/ neutralise radioactivity).

EDIT: here it is :
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-diesel-smugglers-fail-to-crack-colourless-marker-30282691.html

The fuel smugglers already had one scientist working for them in fuel laundering and had been able to overcome all previous attempts to stop the washing and smuggling of "green" and "red" diesel.

They hired a further two scientists this year, but they have been unable to crack the new colourless marker, which is understood to contain a harmless radioactive element.

Chimaera · 29-10-2014 4:46pm

The new markers are what are known as isotopic markers. They are fuel molecules that are modified to contain radio-isotopes of the elements in the molecule e.g. carbon 14 substituted for carbon 12 or oxygen 18 instead of oxygen 16. The can include more than one substitution, and effectively give the markers a unique signature too if they want to. So they might assign different markers to different warehouses and add in traceability to the system. These markers are extremely difficult to remove due to the fact that they are more or less identical chemically and physically to the fuel they're being added to. Separating them involves highly specialised and expensive equipment.

They are due to be introduced in January AFAIK.

mikeecho · 29-10-2014 5:30pm

It will be interesting to see if certain stations that currently sell fuel cheaper than the local competition will continue to do so in the new year.

Alun · 29-10-2014 5:34pm

Chimaera wrote: »

The new markers are what are known as isotopic markers. They are fuel molecules that are modified to contain radio-isotopes of the elements in the molecule e.g. carbon 14 substituted for carbon 12 or oxygen 18 instead of oxygen 16. The can include more than one substitution, and effectively give the markers a unique signature too if they want to. So they might assign different markers to different warehouses and add in traceability to the system. These markers are extremely difficult to remove due to the fact that they are more or less identical chemically and physically to the fuel they're being added to. Separating them involves highly specialised and expensive equipment.

They are due to be introduced in January AFAIK.

Interesting. That article says it was already introduced in February of this year though?

mikeecho · 29-10-2014 5:36pm

Alun wrote: »

Interesting. That article says it was already introduced in February of this year though?

Probably introduced to limited batches for testing purposes I would imagine.

tayto lover · 29-10-2014 5:40pm

There is something very suspicious about the whole laundering saga.

Why don't the Customs just check garages and shut down the ones found selling the laundered diesel or petrol. Very simple and obvious solution but it's not being done.
Why keep checking cars, vans and lorries when they could just check garages and stop the problem there?

mikeecho · 29-10-2014 5:43pm

Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 29-10-2014 6:33pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.

Derry you're really entertaining us!

Damien360 · 29-10-2014 6:43pm

Chimaera wrote: »

The new markers are what are known as isotopic markers. They are fuel molecules that are modified to contain radio-isotopes of the elements in the molecule e.g. carbon 14 substituted for carbon 12 or oxygen 18 instead of oxygen 16. The can include more than one substitution, and effectively give the markers a unique signature too if they want to. So they might assign different markers to different warehouses and add in traceability to the system. These markers are extremely difficult to remove due to the fact that they are more or less identical chemically and physically to the fuel they're being added to. Separating them involves highly specialised and expensive equipment.

They are due to be introduced in January AFAIK.

Talking to the customs guys in state lab a few months ago as we were trying it get them to buy equipment for this test. As he said, if you can add it in, it is only a matter of time before someone figures how to take it out.

What he could not answer is how a roadside test would identify it as it is a colourless marker.

The test for this is by GCMS. Very low trace levels of marker added. Marker not added generally until new year but setting up analysis for prosecution well way.

Myself, I think masking agents would be a way to hide the marker presence in chromatogram. Would have it have same ions and close chemical structure.

mikeecho · 29-10-2014 7:19pm

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Derry you're really entertaining us!

i know it sounds far fetched, but it is very rare that anyone is ever caught at a diesel laundering site

derry · 02-11-2014 12:25am

mikeecho wrote:

Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Derry you're really entertaining us!

Music to my ears I can have presence even when I am not there ha ha

Interesting logic that mikeecho exposes but I suspect its not that .

The Diesel laundering we can be sure is going strong as always even with these markers as the gombeens in the Royal Oireachtas government doesn't get it customs services or fuel control quality service or any ROI legal department with marker detectors out there to look for the washed fuels or stretched fuels . Some sort of bull about they need warrants to look the fuel in filling stations is the Garda statements and similar from customs tells you they are dragging their feet as instructed to do from on high by the gombeens Provisional Irish ministers in the Leinster House

Now in simple terms the present fuel stretching operation is so large there is no way some local hoods or even the IRA can possibly buy and store and move thousands of tons of fuel a day and supply 100 plus fuel outlets without the government and its legal agents to know its methods from top to bottom .

Then what mysterious agent could make the 26 county provisional Irish government back down from controlling Irish fuel supplies quality and tax and vat receipts . Could it be the secret deal with the Good friday .Could it be the Oil companies want the bad fuel out there for their own reasons . Could it be the Motor trade wants to wreck as many Irish cars as they can so they get to sell more cars and repair and sell more engines for cars . Could it be the Oil companies and Motor companies who tell the provisional Irish government how high to jump have told the gombeens in the Royal Oireachtas dont touch the washed and fuel stretchers except for the odd token well planned in advance raids . After all and the wrecked cars will make lots of extra VAT for the gombeens in Leinster house and the oil companies will also give them a few bungs just like Biffo getting the big job with Topaz oil. Now the cats out o the bag the Oil companies are running the whole thing suppling the bad fuel for free even to the outlets for the IRA and local hoods . Now the oil companies and the Gombeens in Leinster house they got to come up with new story to hide the truth .
Yes the good friday agreement its a cracker of inventiveness of some angle on the dangle to explain what is thousands of tons of fuel each day involved in republic of Ireland where mysterious unknown people can buy fuel ingredients and good fuel transport thse fuels and sell this new altered bad fuel and not be touched by normal laws. Even Hollwood couldn't invent this story and Muggins Irish joe soaps have to look this tripe story on RTE and the rest of the castrated Irish media who tow the party line singing the mantra "Good Friday deal allows fuel bandits to be above the ROI laws"

Now when stretched fuel was going strong the FG and their communist side kicks could as mega haters of the IRA easily have shut them down . It means something bigger than the gombeens in Leinster House told them back off . Only the oil companies and the motor trade have that clout . So yes thousands of tons of stretched petrol and we can be sure washed diesel is out there for only one purpose wreck Irish cars and make more profits for the main players .
if the IRA was doing real washed fuel or real stretched petrol with their chemical engineers who can make tomatoes into bombs the fuels would work fine in engines so as to hide it real source .However in car wrecking program where the IRA will just paid fuel movers the oil companies supply all the bad fuel pre mixxed and allow that fuel to wreck Irish cars as it is made to do

Yes in raids there is hardly anyone caught at the raids these are just show raids to try to show the gombeens in the Lienster house are stopping washed fuel or stretched fuel but in reality they aid albeit the activity so as to make pots of money for the gombeens at the expense if the Irish car owners. As the family car is often the single biggest expense per month from the family household exceeding the Mortgage repayments on the house then adding to this burden the washed diesel and stretched fuel to wreck or reduce the life span and impact resale values is robbery of the worst type . But the gombeens in Leinster House dont care they are allright jack .

Derry

testicle · 02-11-2014 1:10am

Have you lost your tinfoil hat Derry?

mikeecho · 02-11-2014 1:12am

testicle wrote: »

Have you lost your tinfoil hat Derry?

I think he has invested in a tin foil suit. .

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-11-2014 2:02am

Dis gon be gud, subscribed.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 02-11-2014 9:44am

Does no one else anywhere think it's fcuking ridiculous that they are still adding markers to fuel instead of stopping this ridiculous system and starting a rebate system for farmers etc to claim back the VAT. why are the government insistent on continuing such a crude inefficient and backwards system???

Chimaera · 02-11-2014 1:52pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Does no one else anywhere think it's fcuking ridiculous that they are still adding markers to fuel instead of stopping this ridiculous system and starting a rebate system for farmers etc to claim back the VAT. why are the government insistent on continuing such a crude inefficient and backwards system???

This has been discussed a lot on different threads here. Fundamentally, the weak part of such a scheme is how do you audit fuel use? It's also likely to cause cashflow problems for low-margin businesses.

pa990 · 02-11-2014 4:08pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Does no one else anywhere think it's fcuking ridiculous that they are still adding markers to fuel instead of stopping this ridiculous system and starting a rebate system for farmers etc to claim back the VAT. why are the government insistent on continuing such a crude inefficient and backwards system???

Low tax Diesel is dyed in many countries across the world.
Its the easiest option.

i know its wiki, but it shows that off road fuel is dyed globally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes

and dyed fuel is also used for homeheating boilers.
If the dye was done away with, i could fill up my oil tank with clear diesel, claim the vat back/duty back, then.. whats to stop that fuel going into a car ?

Bandara · 02-11-2014 11:43pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Does no one else anywhere think it's fcuking ridiculous that they are still adding markers to fuel instead of stopping this ridiculous system and starting a rebate system for farmers etc to claim back the VAT. why are the government insistent on continuing such a crude inefficient and backwards system???

Except for the fact the farmers most definitely don't want a rebate system and no government would have the balls to force it on them and risk the wrath of the IFA

Where do you think all that Derv that the launderers wash comes from?

gman2k · 04-11-2014 12:04pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/diesel-laundry-raided-by-customs-officers-in-co-monaghan-1.1987359?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

ardmacha · 04-11-2014 1:03pm

Bandara wrote: »

Except for the fact the farmers most definitely don't want a rebate system and no government would have the balls to force it on them and risk the wrath of the IFA

Where do you think all that Derv that the launderers wash comes from?

While ranting at farmers is always popular, the IFA are not really the issue on this one, farmers are well used to bureaucracy, the issue is the use of diesel like products for heating.

fryup · 04-11-2014 2:34pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.

Yep,

Don't rock the boat . . . turn a blind eye

04-11-2014 4:26pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

could also be historical waste from years of being at diesel washing, and maybe the end game to hide all evidence.

if youre still washing diesel then keeping the gunk with the equipment makes sense as you want to keep evidence as compact as possible.
If no longer washing diesel, you dont want the gunk about the place as its the only evidence of what you were at.

Is this more to your liking? http://talkofthetown.ie/2014/11/04/diesel-laundering-plant-raided-in-inniskeen/

Keeping and stockpiling the waste makes no sense since getting rid of it is practically risk-free.

gk5000 · 05-11-2014 8:10pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.

Yep, heard that also, though think it was done very subtly, in that the Irish state agreed to "normal / peacetime" policing and customs, so that there are relativly few customs around the border areas.

mikeecho · 05-11-2014 8:23pm

This is an article from last year, about fuel laundering m

It raises the issue of home heating oil.
And also gives the number of people prosecuted for laundering diesel.

http://www.borderireland.info/info/mdetail.php?mref=3220

galwaytt · 05-11-2014 11:04pm

testicle wrote: »

Have you lost your tinfoil hat Derry?

tin foil or no, I cannot understand how 'no-one' did not spot the monaghan job yesterday. Tanks - in a new building - measuring in the 10's of 1000's of litres in size. They don't fit in the back of a transit, and the number of companies capable of making them is small.

Even moving them on the road needs an escorted/wide/abnormal load permit and usually a escort car (written and lit).

I mean, really, NO-ONE sees anything ....??

Special Circumstances · 05-11-2014 11:18pm

galwaytt wrote: »

I mean, really, NO-ONE sees anything ....??

If you know what's good for you, you see nothing is how it goes I'd imagine.

Is Diesel washing dead?

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