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12-09-2020, 21:41   #16
Manach
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The story of Cu Chulainn is one of foundational myths in Ireland, akin to Romulus for the ancient Romans or Achilles for the Greeks.

I'd recommend The Great Course's "The Celtic World" and Nora Chadwicks "The Celts, for context.

How revelent he is or if being judged by present day standards qualifies him as a Hero, is prehaps a subjective opinion.

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However, as this is rather a lo-fi thread please consider providing evidence for Cu Chulainn's status or your opinion.
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12-09-2020, 22:23   #17
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The " fact" a Munster cheiftain sought him out to help for a raid elevates him past local hero for me
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12-09-2020, 23:07   #18
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Originally Posted by Manach View Post
The story of Cu Chulainn is one of foundational myths in Ireland, akin to Romulus for the ancient Romans or Achilles for the Greeks.

I'd recommend The Great Course's "The Celtic World" and Nora Chadwicks "The Celts, for context.

How revelent he is or if being judged by present day standards qualifies him as a Hero, is prehaps a subjective opinion.

[Mod]
However, as this is rather a lo-fi thread please consider providing evidence for Cu Chulainn's status or your opinion.
Has its myth were dealing with I believe that Cu Chulainn was maybe a version of an earlier story possibly from greece or persia translated and the transformed over the course of many years into an irish legend.
I don't believe he was an irish legend, I've yet to read were he defended the irish against any outside nation. To be fair to all he slew in the, the tain, well he was well armed to a degree that you think he was an apache helicopter fighting farmers who only possessed pikes. Again its a myth its an oral story that was translated probably for centuries before it was written down. You couldn't even say for certain whether he was called Cu Chuliann or its a bastard version off another name.
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12-09-2020, 23:17   #19
magicbastarder
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i had assumed the question was 'was he a hero or not', rather than 'was he irish or not'.
unfortunately the question was asked with no context given, the above explanation of the reasoning behind it would have been useful.
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12-09-2020, 23:30   #20
Kylta
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i had assumed the question was 'was he a hero or not', rather than 'was he irish or not'.
unfortunately the question was asked with no context given, the above explanation of the reasoning behind it would have been useful.
Well to be an irish hero dictates he done something on behalf of his country. To be a provincial hero he did something on behalf of his province. Or maybe I should've asked was he a tribal hero instead? But its the posters opinion I was looking for in general
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13-09-2020, 00:23   #21
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Well to be an irish hero dictates he done something on behalf of his country. To be a provincial hero he did something on behalf of his province. Or maybe I should've asked was he a tribal hero instead? But its the posters opinion I was looking for in general

If it's really just our opinion, on what we know, he was man that protected his people, self preservation was obviously a big thing with him, from his encounter that gave him his name to his deeds in Scotland, after that he started looking out for his Kin and was then sought out by people that were 100's of miles away from him. He sought fame to an extent and followed his prophecy to its ultimate end,to me he's a legend and a hero.
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23-10-2020, 13:08   #22
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Well to be an irish hero dictates he done something on behalf of his country. To be a provincial hero he did something on behalf of his province. Or maybe I should've asked was he a tribal hero instead? But its the posters opinion I was looking for in general
The whole concept of a country, as we know it, didn't exist then
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24-10-2020, 12:04   #23
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Why would this be in doubt? Was King Arthur a British hero?
Arthur might be a British hero, but he was more Irish than British, inspired by Irish legends of Eoghan Mor, whose descendants the Ui Liathain, controlled much of west and southwest Britain in the post-Roman era.
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24-10-2020, 12:50   #24
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King Arthur was a Celto-Romanic hero, based on the course "King Arthur: History and Legend" By Dorsey Armstrong, that predates the Anglo-Saxon invasions. His legend was revereved by the people of Britiannity who fled the invasions and was introduced as a saga into Britian after the Norman conquest by minstrels from that area who accompanied them.
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24-10-2020, 18:47   #25
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Actually is it possible that Cu Chulainn and Arthur never actually existed? We know the tain comes from oral to written history, but.the problem with oral history it becomes basterized, has the story teller or minstrel moves around selling his songs and stories, is it possible Arthur like Cu Chulainn, could be actually from another country and have originally had another name?
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24-10-2020, 22:22   #26
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Arthur, on balance of probablity, did exist. He was not akin to the minsteral tale or Holywood blockbuster but instead as a talented warleader that for a time held back the invading Saxons and allowed some form of Celtic redoubts to holdout. Arthurian tales are widespread within those areas and some fragmentary archlogical remains might lead credence to it.

For Cu Chulainn, that is outside my area. However, it is well known that Oral tales and traditions, while not as fixed as literary sources, do provide good evidential frameworks that can be linked to historical events. This was shown by studies of Balkan tales in the 1930s and as well from studies of Homer's workds. So Cu Chulainn cannot be dismissed as a character of myth.
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24-10-2020, 23:24   #27
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Of course Arthur existed as where else did Monty Python get their ideas from?

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25-10-2020, 11:11   #28
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The problem with Arthur is that as you follow the sources back through time, evidence of his existence dissipates. Gildas, who wrote in the early 6th century and showed an extensive knowledge of contemporary rulers of what is now Cornwall and west Wales never mentioned him.
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25-10-2020, 13:07   #29
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The problem with Arthur is that as you follow the sources back through time, evidence of his existence dissipates. Gildas, who wrote in the early 6th century and showed an extensive knowledge of contemporary rulers of what is now Cornwall and west Wales never mentioned him.
According to Dr. Armstrong, Gildas does mention both a King Aurelianus (who has been linked as another name for Arthur by some scholars of the period) as well as a key battle of that king which could be linked to one Arthur was supposed to have fought. A latter historian Nennius in the 800s does credit Arthur for this battle.
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25-10-2020, 13:13   #30
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He is an Irish hero. In the same sense that Achilles, Odysseus, Menelaus, Agamemnon are Greek heroes.

I don't know what to make of his beserk 'hulk' mode though...
The first warp-spasm seized Cúchulainn, and made him into a monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of. His shanks and his joints, every knuckle and angle and organ from head to foot, shook like a tree in the flood or a reed in the stream. His body made a furious twist inside his skin, so that his feet and shins switched to the rear and his heels and calves switched to the front... On his head the temple-sinews stretched to the nape of his neck, each mighty, immense, measureless knob as big as the head of a month-old child... he sucked one eye so deep into his head that a wild crane couldn't probe it onto his cheek out of the depths of his skull; the other eye fell out along his cheek. His mouth weirdly distorted: his cheek peeled back from his jaws until the gullet appeared, his lungs and his liver flapped in his mouth and throat, his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow, and fiery flakes large as a ram's fleece reached his mouth from his throat...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn
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