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Denied JSA due to partner

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24

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Recliner
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Recliner


    Habata wrote: »
    I've more than paid my share of taxes. This is my first time being unemployed. Thanks for your input and insight.

    I can't understand how if I was sharing with someone else I would get JSA.

    Again, you're not sharing, you're co-habiting. For the purposes of Social Welfare, they are totally different animals.


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    #33
    Recliner
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Recliner


    Habata wrote: »
    JSA payment is about means. Explain to me whats different about means between sharing and co-habiting?

    I don't have to explain.
    All information is available on gov.ie
    Surely you did your research before you put in a claim.
    Ignorance is not a defence.


  • Options
    #34
    Vestiapx
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    Recliner wrote: »
    I don't have to explain.
    All information is available on gov.ie
    Surely you did your research before you put in a claim.
    Ignorance is not a defence.

    I started sleeping with one of my house mates and about three months later I got a home visit from the welfare inspector, he told me that we were co habiting and asked to see the sleeping arrangements, I showed him my bedroom and the doors to the other housemates rooms and explained that everyone in the house had their own room. I then told him that I'd shagged everyone in the house and that If I was cohabiting with all of them that I wanted it in writing so I cod have it for when I grew up. That was the end of all that.


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    #35
    Recliner
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Recliner


    Habata wrote: »
    JSA payment is about means. Explain to me whats different about means between sharing and co-habiting?

    Also, if you're only house sharing, then your housemates financial situation has nothing to do with you and they would not be assessed in relation to your claim.


  • Options
    #36
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Recliner wrote: »
    Again, you're not sharing, you're co-habiting. For the purposes of Social Welfare, they are totally different animals.

    If we break up, and everything else remains the same. Now we're sharing and I'm eligible for JSA? How does that make any sense?

    Why do I pay PRSI at the same rate as single people if I'm treated differently?


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  • Options
    #37
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Recliner wrote: »
    I don't have to explain.
    All information is available on gov.ie
    Surely you did your research before you put in a claim.
    Ignorance is not a defence.
    a voluntary admission of living together as husband and wife or civil partners is accepted as sufficient evidence where the person makes the admission in the knowledge that his/her own entitlement will be adversely affected by it. Such admission should be obtained in writing, as far as possible in his/her own words, and the statement should be read over to him/her before being signed.
    .


  • Options
    #38
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Habata wrote: »
    If we break up, and everything else remains the same. Now we're sharing and I'm eligible for JSA? How does that make any sense?

    Why do I pay PRSI at the same rate as single people if I'm treated differently?

    Your PRSI has gotten you months of JSB.


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    #39
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    jrosen wrote: »
    Your PRSI has gotten you months of JSB.

    And no JSA. So why is my insurance premium the same?


  • Options
    #40
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    I started sleeping with one of my house mates and about three months later I got a home visit from the welfare inspector, he told me that we were co habiting and asked to see the sleeping arrangements, I showed him my bedroom and the doors to the other housemates rooms and explained that everyone in the house had their own room. I then told him that I'd shagged everyone in the house and that If I was cohabiting with all of them that I wanted it in writing so I cod have it for when I grew up. That was the end of all that.

    So the state considers people a financial unit if they have sex? Does this not seen a bit mad to anyone?


  • Options
    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Move out OP or get a job.
    That's the options


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  • Options
    #42
    Recliner
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Recliner


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    I started sleeping with one of my house mates and about three months later I got a home visit from the welfare inspector, he told me that we were co habiting and asked to see the sleeping arrangements, I showed him my bedroom and the doors to the other housemates rooms and explained that everyone in the house had their own room. I then told him that I'd shagged everyone in the house and that If I was cohabiting with all of them that I wanted it in writing so I cod have it for when I grew up. That was the end of all that.

    As I've said earlier, they're not interested in your sex life. Having sex with someone doesn't constitute a relationship, nor does it mean you're co-habiting.
    Someone obviously reported you, I'm assuming.
    As for you growing up, we can only only hope.


  • Options
    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Habata wrote: »
    So the state considers people a financial unit if they have sex? Does this not seen a bit mad to anyone?

    Not if they have sex.
    If they are cohabiting


  • Options
    #44
    Vestiapx
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    jrosen wrote: »
    Your PRSI has gotten you months of JSB.

    Ah it's strange times .


  • Options
    #45
    Vestiapx
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    Recliner wrote: »
    As I've said earlier, they're not interested in your sex life. Having sex with someone doesn't constitute a relationship, nor does it mean you're co-habiting.
    Someone obviously reported you, I'm assuming.
    As for you growing up, we can only only hope.

    Someone defo reported me, do you think it was a jealous 7th party. Is it possible to find out who it was


  • Options
    #46
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Habata wrote: »
    And no JSA. So why is my insurance premium the same?

    It's the same tax rate for everyone.


  • Options
    #47
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    It is strange that cohabiting is taken into consideration for social welfare payments but not for sharing tax credits. Thinking of all the cohabiting non married people in the country why has this never been an issue. I'd have thought it affects 10 of thousands of workers.


  • Options
    #48
    Buddy Bubs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,454 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    The answer to your question is that cohabiting couples are deemed a financial unit because if one of them decided to give up work to be run the house they could receive the dole indefinitely. There is a threshold which the partner continuing to work must earn above and, your partner must exceed this. My mother, for example, never got benefits when not working for 20 years because my father exceeded the threshold.


  • Options
    #49
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    The means testing though is a very common thing. I've been working for over 15 years but if I become unemployed I'll get my 9 months JSB then zero as my wife is earning a decent salary.

    Social welfare need to have a general rule - how you and your partner deal with your finances and joint expenses doesn't interest them. And as for sex, you could be swingers involved in orgies every weekend and it doesn't matter either.

    That's just the way it is for better or worse.


  • Options
    #50
    Marco Skinny Pussycat
    Posts: 0 ✭ Marco Skinny Pussycat


    Jaysus I can’t believe two days in and the OP is still fighting this.


  • Options
    #51
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Habata wrote:
    And no JSA. So why is my insurance premium the same?

    JSA isn't based on PRSI it's means tested, hence your partners income being taken into account. The key is in the name with social welfare payments.

    Allowance means means tested.
    Benefit means PRSI based.

    JSB is based on PRSI and gives you a max of 9 months.
    Car99 wrote:
    It is strange that cohabiting is taken into consideration for social welfare payments but not for sharing tax credits. Thinking of all the cohabiting non married people in the country why has this never been an issue. I'd have thought it affects 10 of thousands of workers.

    Two different departments. Revenue handles taxation, Social Protection handles social welfare payments.

    Not really strange at all, means tested payments have to have some sort of threshold.


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  • Options
    #52
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Buddy Bubs wrote: »
    The answer to your question is that cohabiting couples are deemed a financial unit because if one of them decided to give up work to be run the house they could receive the dole indefinitely. There is a threshold which the partner continuing to work must earn above and, your partner must exceed this. My mother, for example, never got benefits when not working for 20 years because my father exceeded the threshold.

    But if they were married you father got double the tax free allowance where as unmarried cohabiting couple would not get the extra tax free earnings.


  • Options
    #53
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Jaysus I can’t believe two days in and the OP is still fighting this.

    I've yet to see a logical reason about it.


  • Options
    #54
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Habata wrote: »
    So couple A1 and A2, and couple B1 and B2.

    A1 lives with B1, and A2 lives with B2. Everyone that's entitled to JSA gets it?

    But, if A1 lives with A2, and B1 lives with B2. It's treated completely differently?

    How does that make sense?

    Does this make sense?


  • Options
    #55
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Habata wrote: »
    Is there a threshold? If two students move in after being together a week, are they co-habiting? Are they treated as a joint income?

    Is there discretion involved? Or is every couple treated the same?


  • Options
    #56
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,520 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Habata wrote: »
    I lost my job and moved in with my partner. And have been denied jsa for that reason. Is that normal? Is there any way I can appeal? Seems very unfair. And I feel very stupid for not just saying I lived with a friend. There's no transfers between us. I'm not getting money from them. So why would I be denied jsa

    You can appeal it but you won't win.

    You are cohabiting and social welfare have correctly implemented the rules.


  • Options
    #57
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,520 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Habata wrote: »
    Is there discretion involved? Or is every couple treated the same?

    What discretion is needed?
    You have told social welfare you are living with your partner and they have applied the rules of the scheme.


  • Options
    #58
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    yabadabado wrote: »
    What discretion is needed?
    You have told social welfare you are living with your partner and they have applied the rules of the scheme.

    A young couple start going out. Move in temporarily after a week . Seems different to a couple who have lived together for ten years. Or someone staying on a couch after losing a job again temporarily. It doesn't seem reasonable for the state to treat all of those as single financial units


  • Options
    #59
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Habata wrote: »
    A young couple start going out. Move in temporarily after a week . Seems different to a couple who have lived together for ten years. Or someone staying on a couch after losing a job again temporarily. It doesn't seem reasonable for the state to treat all of those as single financial units

    You have the right of appealing the decision with the independent Social Welfare Appeals office if you feel the decision is incorrect.


  • Options
    #60
    jj880
    Registered Users Posts: 4,244 ✭✭✭jj880


    Habata wrote: »
    Does this make sense?

    Some posters have already expressed their opinions that the rules are somewhat unfair. Im not sure how getting more posters to agree will help you. As for a written admission that you are cohabiting you gave this when applying for JSA. Even if you and your partner broke up tomorrow Im not sure how you would convince welfare of this. You may have to reapply for JSA. I dont mean to sound harsh but it does seem like your only options are for you (or your partner) to move out or to try and get a job sorted quickly.


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  • Options
    #61
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,520 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Habata wrote: »
    A young couple start going out. Move in temporarily after a week . Seems different to a couple who have lived together for ten years. Or someone staying on a couch after losing a job again temporarily. It doesn't seem reasonable for the state to treat all of those as single financial units

    Its the very same thing,its cohabitation.One couple just happens to be together longer.


This discussion has been closed.
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