What's the most convincing piece of data showing climate change is real?

Titclamp · 20-02-2020 12:26am

Computer Science Student wrote: »

And if you go back further again, you'll see even more ice. So were humans causing global warming since the ice age or does ice just melt over large periods of time in the history of the planet?

So what's happening is natural then. Nothing can be done if its tjsts the case.

R3_Regera · 20-02-2020 12:40am

Computer Science Student wrote: »

And if you go back further again, you'll see even more ice. So were humans causing global warming since the ice age or does ice just melt over large periods of time in the history of the planet?

If you go back far enough you'll find a time when the earth was uninhabitable by humans... does that make it just a normal process?
At this stage it doesn't matter what is caused our current climate crisis and maybe any attempts will be just be a futile gesture.
You can't deny that more of the planet had fires this year than any other in recent memory and the CO2 generated by that alone and the loss of trees in the process is likely to have long term consequences. The rate the ice is melting at will have long term consequences. It's not going to get better just sitting back and arguing that it was always like this.

20-02-2020 1:22am

Computer Science Student wrote: »

And if you go back further again, you'll see even more ice. So were humans causing global warming since the ice age or does ice just melt over large periods of time in the history of the planet?

It's been stated many times already that it's the emissions since the industrial revolution that has caused the spike. You claim to be looking for answers but you choose to ignore them. Maybe you are just looking for a validation of your own views?

R3_Regera · 20-02-2020 1:41am

Computer Science Student wrote: »

I don't want any of the usual hyperbole diagrams or quoting statistics on emissions, greenhouse gases etc.

I just want to see that the climate's change in temperature can be shown to be changing in a statistically significant way.

Consider studying data science instead of computer science, the answers will become obvious

Austria! · 20-02-2020 1:56am

JoeFritzl wrote: »

Whether climate change is really happening or not is irrelevant to this point; it's for the scientists to argue and they still continue to argue over this. We still haven't convinced all of the top scientists that this is true.

Which top scientists are holding out on us?

Larbre34 · 20-02-2020 5:06am

Ultimanemo wrote: »

This is the map of Europe 20,000 to 70,000 years ago most of the UK and most of Ireland were covered with hundreds of metres of snow, global warming is a fact

Thats got basically nothing to do with what we're talking about.

We're talking about the rate of change in global temperature in the last 150 years, minus what we can quantify as natural influences, i.e. changes in the cycle of the Sun and volcanic eruptions affecting things during that same period. The science is conclusive, the human impact (anthropogenic) can be shown to be far greater than those other influences would have affected things.

topper75 · 20-02-2020 11:36am

Mattdhg wrote: »

Higher temp = increased water vapour in ear, which is essentially a greenhouse gas and traps more of the sun's rays. And on and on and on

Intuitively this makes no sense to me. Consider two identical greenhouses constructed side by side. One is normal and one has its panels painted white.
Which greenhouse will come to be warmer inside?

Increased water vapour in the air means more cloud cover and more deflection of the sun's rays. It would have a cooling effect on the planet (a corrective mechanism if you will).

The cooling effect of cloud cover hardly needs to be explained to the Irish.

Retr0gamer · 20-02-2020 11:54am

Man made climate change is real. Sure the climate fluctuates in naturally. The problem with man made climate change is that CO2, temperature, polar ice melting is happening at an insanely high rate compared to what was observed naturally. Usually these changes occur over many thousands of years. Instead we have seen an exponential change in the last 150. This has never been seen before in all the climate data we have going back thousands of years. And the trend points to it only increasing.

Honestly if you don't believe in man made climate change and how much of a negative impact it has on the world and people despite what all the evidence from qualified scientists is pointing towards then you are in the wrong.

The only people trying to paint a picture of climate change either not happening or that it's natural are large pollution emitting corporations and the politicians who rely on funding/donations/bribes from these corporations and will suffer the most from efforts to combat environmental issues. These people are only looking at short term gains, what they can show their shareholders at the yearly AGM or when the next general election comes up and not looking at how massively they will lose out in the long term.

topper75 wrote: »

Intuitively this makes no sense to me. Consider two identical greenhouses constructed side by side. One is normal and one has its panels painted white.
Which greenhouse will come to be warmer inside?

Increased water vapour in the air means more cloud cover and more deflection of the sun's rays. It would have a cooling effect on the planet (a corrective mechanism if you will).

The cooling effect of cloud cover hardly needs to be explained to the Irish.

Water Vapour is not the same as cloud cover. Water Vapour is the gaseous form of water. Clouds are mostly made of water crystals, ice. Totally different things.

topper75 · 20-02-2020 12:09pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Water Vapour is not the same as cloud cover. Water Vapour is the gaseous form of water. Clouds are mostly made of water crystals, ice. Totally different things.

Totally different things that are undeniably and inextricably linked.
The following is from the European Space Agency website:

Bright cloud tops block solar energy from reaching the surface by reflecting it straight back to space, while thick cloud bodies absorb and scatter heat energy radiating out from the Earth’s surface. So if total cloud coverage increases - due perhaps to global warming or increased aerosol loading - would that cool or warm the planet overall? We cannot be sure, yet. Clouds represent something of a blind spot in current climate models.

Envisat is making good that gap in knowledge, returning detailed characterisations of cloud types and properties. AATSR’s dual-view radiometer design provides stereoscopic images of cloud tops and interior structure. Data acquired by individual AATSR spectral channels gives information on a cloud’s temperature, thickness, particle size and whether it is composed of ice or water particles. Simultaneously, the MERIS optical and near-infrared sensor records cloud type, optical thickness, top-of-cloud radiance, reflectivity, radiance and height.

These combined observations will improve our knowledge of the role of clouds in global climate and may also improve weather forecasting accuracy in the near-term.

Now I don't want to engage in the Appeal to Authority game (one much abused daily by alarmists) but if they are unsure on this point, does it serve us to be sure?

topper75 · 20-02-2020 12:19pm

If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything.

Steel yourself data, for the pain is a-coming:

"When Jeff Bezos — Amazon’s CEO and the richest person alive — announced his new $10 billion Bezos Earth Fund on Tuesday, he said he would start doling out that cash to scientists, NGOs, and activists as early as this summer. There aren’t a ton of details yet about what kind of charitable giving the Bezos Earth Fund will be focused on, but researchers and advocacy groups have a few ideas for how all that green could be spent."

Oh! I'm sure they do.

Larbre34 · 20-02-2020 2:40pm

Bezos should spend a few quid treating the people who work for him better before he goes all Tony Stark at things.

Timistry · 21-02-2020 12:44am

Have this debate at home all the time. One of the most frustrating things is the confusion between weather and climate. One being very short term and one being very long term. We have scientific records which far outdate the written records and the patterns are undeniable. It has always been recognized that there have been climatic changes but these have been elucidated and are relevant to the current debate.

Austria! · 21-02-2020 12:56am

topper75 wrote: »

but researchers and advocacy groups have a few ideas for how all that green could be spent."

Oh! I'm sure they do.

I for one would be much more convinced about climate change if all the researchers had no idea how they could solve it, and didn't know that money could be exchanged for good and services.

beejee · 21-02-2020 1:13am

Got you covered here. Measured global warming by sticking the flute out the window earlier, results were "not too bad".

Rest easy now, relax

JoeFritzl · 22-02-2020 3:29pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Man made climate change is real. Sure the climate fluctuates in naturally. The problem with man made climate change is that CO2, temperature, polar ice melting is happening at an insanely high rate compared to what was observed naturally. Usually these changes occur over many thousands of years. Instead we have seen an exponential change in the last 150. This has never been seen before in all the climate data we have going back thousands of years. And the trend points to it only increasing.

Honestly if you don't believe in man made climate change and how much of a negative impact it has on the world and people despite what all the evidence from qualified scientists is pointing towards then you are in the wrong.

The only people trying to paint a picture of climate change either not happening or that it's natural are large pollution emitting corporations and the politicians who rely on funding/donations/bribes from these corporations and will suffer the most from efforts to combat environmental issues. These people are only looking at short term gains, what they can show their shareholders at the yearly AGM or when the next general election comes up and not looking at how massively they will lose out in the long term.

Water Vapour is not the same as cloud cover. Water Vapour is the gaseous form of water. Clouds are mostly made of water crystals, ice. Totally different things.

I mean you say that he is wrong because he doesn't believe in all the data scientists are providing, when he created this thread asking for said data, which I would say hasn't been conclusively provided.

scamalert · 22-02-2020 3:38pm

climate change - tax the **** out of people = solution

what was once BS qualification and news today is made out to be like end of the world. As Ireland has such a small footprint and population, in comparison to countries like china india, where they burn ****, but sure lets beat the drum that climate change is somehow important to us when we actually face little to none of it, if compared to last 20 years theres fck all difference here, rain every day, some wind, few storms- but everyone gets a bonner now for every spike, for what to be used oh well another $hit day.

Now if the clap talk was about planting trees and cutting down on entire ruining 3rd world countries for exploitation, sure - but average clown boasting about it on radio, thinks solution and consequences somehow are related to Ireland mostly, to pay more in tax :cool: think brits had as messed up were did a good point leaving EU, as seems every talk and solution is based on tax tax tax, its like keep ****ting just double the tax on toilet paper, only solution coming out from geniuses in government.

Bob Harris · 22-02-2020 3:57pm

I sprayed weeds today to keep them down.
It's the 22nd of February.
I cut the grass last week and could get another cut off it his week all while wearing short sleeves.
Seasons have been increasingly morphing into one another for the last few decades.
I have no doubt that climate change is a real phenomenon. The reasons causing it are debatable.

JoeFritzl · 22-02-2020 7:07pm

Johnny Morris wrote: »

That's great and I fully support that but I'm pretty fed up with 'The world is DOOMED' hysteria from the eco-commies.

There's a reason I don't represent the GP.

It's also not fair to label every member of the party as having the same beliefs. I don't join a party expecting their opinions to align with mine. I join to solve a common issue of climate change, which is actually surprisingly not as bad as we are led to believe.

JoeFritzl · 22-02-2020 7:09pm

Bob Harris wrote: »

I sprayed weeds today to keep them down.
It's the 22nd of February.
I cut the grass last week and could get another cut off it his week all while wearing short sleeves.
Seasons have been increasingly morphing into one another for the last few decades.
I have no doubt that climate change is a real phenomenon. The reasons causing it are debatable.

Or we are just cycling through climate phases. A real thing which definitely happens.

Also the fact you are cutting your grass so often is thanks to all the carbon dioxide which is feeding the greenery.

Igotadose · 22-02-2020 7:10pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

This is an intriguing argument. Would you mind supporting the diagram with a research paper or similar delving into the raw data. Visually it definitely is statistically significant, but I would like to see how the data was prepared to get there.

Google "Dave Keeling"

JoeFritzl · 22-02-2020 7:38pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Google "Dave Keeling"

The onus is not with him to uncover "proof" from your cryptic instructions.

Link an article or something that answers his question, because that is just useless finger directions.

Bob Harris · 22-02-2020 7:53pm

JoeFritzl wrote: »

Or we are just cycling through climate phases. A real thing which definitely happens.

Also the fact you are cutting your grass so often is thanks to all the carbon dioxide which is feeding the greenery.

So if there is extra carbon dioxide then that would suggest global warming.
Again the question persists - how much of this climate change is brought about by human influence and how much as you say is just a climate phase independent of, or largely independent of human activity.

JoeFritzl · 22-02-2020 8:15pm

Bob Harris wrote: »

So if there is extra carbon dioxide then that would suggest global warming.
Again the question persists - how much of this climate change is brought about by human influence and how much as you say is just a climate phase independent of, or largely independent of human activity.

Rather; How much of it should we care about?

Titclamp · 23-02-2020 1:00am

Trying to put blame on the people for it and not big business.

All in the name of tax.

Edgarfrndly · 23-02-2020 3:11am

scamalert wrote: »

climate change - tax the **** out of people = solution

what was once BS qualification and news today is made out to be like end of the world. As Ireland has such a small footprint and population, in comparison to countries like china india, where they burn ****, but sure lets beat the drum that climate change is somehow important to us when we actually face little to none of it, if compared to last 20 years theres fck all difference here, rain every day, some wind, few storms- but everyone gets a bonner now for every spike, for what to be used oh well another $hit day.

Now if the clap talk was about planting trees and cutting down on entire ruining 3rd world countries for exploitation, sure - but average clown boasting about it on radio, thinks solution and consequences somehow are related to Ireland mostly, to pay more in tax :cool: think brits had as messed up were did a good point leaving EU, as seems every talk and solution is based on tax tax tax, its like keep ****ting just double the tax on toilet paper, only solution coming out from geniuses in government.

Misinformed nonsense. This is what happens when someone speaks with confidence, without having any knowledge.

Firstly - India's per capita emissions are extremely low. Far lower than us. China's per capita's emissions aren't much different than Ireland's. The largest producers per capita are the middle-east, the US, Canada and Australia. A country can only reduce its emissions relative to its population.

Ireland's emissions are above the EU average. There is absolutely an onus on us to reduce them. The effects of climate change affect everyone. You're arguing from personal incredulity. Just because you personally can't see how climate change affects Ireland, doesn't mean it can't.

It will lead to higher sea levels, more frequency of extreme weather events like hurricanes, more flooding, etc.

And yes - tax is an effective means of reducing fossil fuel consumption. People are more conscious about the type of car they buy, and the amount of petrol they use. Instead of driving to the shop, they might take a walk. Instead of buying a huge jeep that drinks petrol, they might buy a more economical saloon. It all adds up.

Titclamp · 23-02-2020 9:18am

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Misinformed nonsense. This is what happens when someone speaks with confidence, without having any knowledge.

Firstly - India's per capita emissions are extremely low. Far lower than us. China's per capita's emissions aren't much different than Ireland's. The largest producers per capita are the middle-east, the US, Canada and Australia. A country can only reduce its emissions relative to its population.

Ireland's emissions are above the EU average. There is absolutely an onus on us to reduce them. The effects of climate change affect everyone. You're arguing from personal incredulity. Just because you personally can't see how climate change affects Ireland, doesn't mean it can't.

It will lead to higher sea levels, more frequency of extreme weather events like hurricanes, more flooding, etc.

And yes - tax is an effective means of reducing fossil fuel consumption. People are more conscious about the type of car they buy, and the amount of petrol they use. Instead of driving to the shop, they might take a walk. Instead of buying a huge jeep that drinks petrol, they might buy a more economical saloon. It all adds up.

Deluded. The planet is fine, its the people who are ****ed. Planet will take care of its self when humans become too much of a nuisance.

Put the total of humans in ratio to the size of the planet and you'll see how insignificant we are.

We're fleas.

Thelonious Monk · 23-02-2020 12:03pm

Titclamp wrote: »

Deluded. The planet is fine, its the people who are ****ed. Planet will take care of its self when humans become too much of a nuisance.

Put the total of humans in ratio to the size of the planet and you'll see how insignificant we are.

We're fleas.

Ok yeah but some of us kind of want the human race to carry on in harmony with nature and the world, if that is even possible.

Titclamp · 23-02-2020 12:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ok yeah but some of us kind of want the human race to carry on in harmony with nature and the world, if that is even possible.

Has that ever happened?

Can't even live in harmony with your bloody neighborhood never mind with nature.

How ridiculous are people are, its hilarious and tragic at the same time.

Edgarfrndly · 23-02-2020 4:22pm

Titclamp wrote: »

Deluded. The planet is fine, its the people who are ****ed. Planet will take care of its self when humans become too much of a nuisance.

Put the total of humans in ratio to the size of the planet and you'll see how insignificant we are.

We're fleas.

Do you actually know how the planet balances carbon levels? With carbon sinks. Do you know what we're doing to them? Chopping them down.

So how exactly is the planet going to take care of the increasing levels of atmospheric CO2? Go ahead, I'm all ears.

Titclamp · 23-02-2020 4:30pm

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Do you actually know how the planet balances carbon levels? With carbon sinks. Do you know what we're doing to them? Chopping them down.

So how exactly is the planet going to take care of the increasing levels of atmospheric CO2? Go ahead, I'm all ears.

Who actually gives a ****.

The planet most definitely doesn't.

And you think we are powerful enough to control the planet? Talk about grandiosity. We think we are God yet we don't believe in it of bit of there is one or not.

Talk about delusional.

We will destroy our way of life here

Not the planet.

The planet doesn't even know we are here..

When it does. A good few tidal waves and goodnight.

What's the most convincing piece of data showing climate change is real?

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