Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Exclamation Marc · 11-05-2019 11:13pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think we missed all of them, Carberry to come on at 15 as a second receiver, Murphy would have been great off bench etc

Mmmm fair point.

I wonder if most of the team will survive for Saturday.

Big motivation to get this Pro14 now after today. Obviously they would have always been motivated but avoiding a trophyless season must spur them on a bit more.

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2019 11:25pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Mmmm fair point.

I wonder if most of the team will survive for Saturday.

Big motivation to get this Pro14 now after today. Obviously they would have always been motivated but avoiding a trophyless season must spur them on a bit more.

SOB won’t, Cronin didn’t look great coming off

Apart from that I would expect most of the team want to get back on that pitch tomorrow and show what they can do

Clegg · 12-05-2019 12:00am

Henshaw played well today I think. Looked very powerful when carrying, but also showed good agility to sidestep a few tackles. His partnership with Ringrose didn't go well though. Might be down to his outside man having a thoroughly poor performance though.

One thing I'd like to see more of from Henshaw is passing. He's rarely used as a distributor, but he has that in his locker.

Shefwedfan · 12-05-2019 12:20pm

So onwards and upwards.

Semi next week. Packed RDS.

I would expect as many as possible of the starting team will want to play next week and get the loss behind them. Maybe with a bit of an eye to the future

Starting team potentially?

Leinster: Larmour, Dave Kearney, Ringrose, Henshaw, Lowe; Sexton (Capt), McGrath; Healy, Tracy, Furlong; Toner, Ryan; Fardy, Deegan, Conan.

Potentially bring back in Ruddock and swap out Fardy or drop Fardy into second row. Ryan done a mountain a work yesterday

kingofthekong · 12-05-2019 12:25pm

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

When you are getting big lads hitting like that time after time, a player with the work rate if VDF is what you want. SOB had a decent game but VDF hits monstrous tackle counts and is always at the ruck fending

Tell you what Will Connors could've been useful yesterday he's one of the best tackle counts and chop tackles I've seen in a while, can't wait to see how he progresses

BoardsMember · 12-05-2019 12:36pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Tell you what Will Connors could've been useful yesterday he's one of the best tackle counts and chop tackles I've seen in a while, can't wait to see how he progresses

Starting or on the bench? In place of who?

Buer · 12-05-2019 1:20pm

Shefwedfan wrote:

Leinster: Larmour, Dave Kearney, Ringrose, Henshaw, Lowe; Sexton (Capt), McGrath; Healy, Tracy, Furlong; Toner, Ryan; Fardy, Deegan, Conan.

I would expect more changes than that. Sexton looked in a lot of pain. I was surprised he continued but wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't play again this season.

I could see JGP starting if fit as well as SOB (only played 60 minutes), Ruddock, Tracy and possibly Porter. The team will need significant freshening up. The physicality yesterday was massive.

Shefwedfan · 12-05-2019 1:48pm

Buer wrote: »

I would expect more changes than that. Sexton looked in a lot of pain. I was surprised he continued but wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't play again this season.

I could see JGP starting if fit as well as SOB (only played 60 minutes), Ruddock, Tracy and possibly Porter. The team will need significant freshening up. The physicality yesterday was massive.

They have played very little rugby, most of the 15, I know it was a tough match yesterday but they are about to head into a WC which they will be required to play more than 1 match every 3 weeks.

Freshen up but that would be it.....a Pro 14 win would help to close out a good season.

Exclamation Marc · 12-05-2019 2:09pm

Right. Best way to get over yesterday is to book tickets for next year's final.

Ambitious decision but it's what my hangover needs.

Shefwedfan · 12-05-2019 2:35pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Right. Best way to get over yesterday is to book tickets for next year's final.

Ambitious decision but it's what my hangover needs.

Unless they meet Saracens in Semi/Qtr I think it is a good bet Leinster will make final next year....

Well once they can get out of group with so many players at WC

Exclamation Marc · 12-05-2019 2:50pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Unless they meet Saracens in Semi/Qtr I think it is a good bet Leinster will make final next year....

Well once they can get out of group with so many players at WC

Quoting this post to the better half when I break it to her later

dubal · 13-05-2019 2:12pm

VDF available for selection, nice surprise.

Trojan · 13-05-2019 2:19pm

Just back from the Toon. Good city, a lot nicer than we expected. A bit wild in places later in the evening. Shout out to everyone who got to sample the delights of The Beehive at some point over the weekend.

Pre-match was a great atmosphere, almost every neutral was cheering on Leinster. Even a Munster fan - sitting with 2 Leinster ladies - waved a blue flag when we scored the try. All the French and most of the English fans (particularly Chiefs) that we met really wanted us to do it.

All real fans of the game knew that we were up against it though. You could feel the tension everywhere around the town and stadium.

Up until the end of the first half I thought we had a chance - that score was the killing stroke.

Garces was somehow even worse than I expected, but I thought the team should have been better prepared for it. Perhaps it's the old "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face". Saracens had an advantage in having had him in the previous game, they knew exactly what they could get away with, and at this level fine margins matter.

A lot of big players didn't live up to the billing (again this season). I think SOB's performance, sadly, confirms that the correct decision was made there. It's an interesting thought experiment to wonder how we'd have done with Nordie and Carbery in the squad, but c'est la vie.

We can't make huge tactical mistakes like not kicking out before the half, and not passing outside with overlaps, and hope to beat a team as good as Saracens.

I hope Joe Schmidt was watching and has taken copious notes. 2018 Ireland & Leinster have been found out. We need to adapt if we want to progress this year.

awec · 13-05-2019 2:30pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Unless they meet Saracens in Semi/Qtr I think it is a good bet Leinster will make final next year....

Well once they can get out of group with so many players at WC

Wouldn't be so sure. Leinster aren't as good this year as they were last year, and I think you might be weaker again next year.

Still comfortably the top side in the Pro14 by quite a distance, but also I think beatable on any given day in knockout rugby. Ulster almost did the job this year.

Former Former · 13-05-2019 2:35pm

Watched the game back again yesterday.

One thing that stands out for me is the lack of leadership on the field. Everyone has focussed on the McGrath kick and the Ringrose overlap, but the decision-making under pressure was poor throughout.

I've said it a couple of times that Sexton is no captain. The very things that make him a great out-half make him a bit of a rubbish captain.

When you go back through our previous successes, we had Cullen, Heaslip, BOD and Nacewa as an incredible core of leaders across the park. We don't have that in the current incarnation. Hopefully we see more of the younger guys taking on that sort of role because we need it.

Shefwedfan · 13-05-2019 2:35pm

awec wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure. Leinster aren't as good this year as they were last year, and I think you might be weaker again next year.

Still comfortably the top side in the Pro14 by quite a distance, but also I think beatable on any given day in knockout rugby. Ulster almost did the job this year.

Majority of the team will still be in place next year. McGrath hasn't really featured this year and SOB was out for most of season as well

If we could get the likes of VDF and hopefully Leavy back fit then they can cover. No issue anymore with kolpack. Tomane will be another season and will add depth etc

JGP/Lowe/Fardy available for every match will be a huge benefit. Maybe a new signing at hooker.

Injury is the big thing as bulk suppliers to the Ireland squad. Saracens will have same problem with England.

Also if we can kick off well in group stages after WC I would hope home wtr/semi and that is a huge benefit

errlloyd · 13-05-2019 2:48pm

Which players are in decline and which are in growth. Sexton, Kearney, Healy, Toner, Cronin, Ferg, are slipping away.

Deegan, Doris, Frawley, Byrne, Baird, Dunne, Connors, Ed Byrne, Larmour are still learning.

Buer · 13-05-2019 2:51pm

awec wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure. Leinster aren't as good this year as they were last year, and I think you might be weaker again next year.

Still comfortably the top side in the Pro14 by quite a distance, but also I think beatable on any given day in knockout rugby. Ulster almost did the job this year.

I would agree. Whatever about Nick McCarthy, losing SOB, McGrath and Reid is going to reduce depth again. The scales are heavily tipped towards those leaving versus those coming into the squad. Cian Kelleher is the only one coming in thus far and there's an expectation that others may leave also. Similarly, we only had Tomane arrive externally last summer with multiple departures.

Regardless of how good an academy is, it cannot cover the loss of so many experienced professionals in the space of 2 years. We are conceivably looking at having lost the bulk of a very good team in the past 18 months.

Leinster can maintain the same level next season but it's going to require a stroke of luck in terms of injuries. If we cop 3-4 injuries in the back row again, there are going to be a few guys getting their first starts in Europe ahead of schedule.

Squidgy Black · 13-05-2019 2:55pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Which players are in decline and which are in growth. Sexton, Kearney, Healy, Toner, Cronin, Ferg, are slipping away.

Deegan, Doris, Frawley, Byrne, Baird, Dunne, Connors, Ed Byrne, Larmour are still learning.

I wouldn't say Healy or Toner are in decline, in fact they're probably both playing some of the best rugby they ever have over the last two seasons. In terms of age profile they won't have long left but I certainly wouldn't say they've declined yet.

Henry Ford III · 13-05-2019 3:01pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Majority of the team will still be in place next year. McGrath hasn't really featured this year and SOB was out for most of season as well

If we could get the likes of VDF and hopefully Leavy back fit then they can cover. No issue anymore with kolpack. Tomane will be another season and will add depth etc

JGP/Lowe/Fardy available for every match will be a huge benefit. Maybe a new signing at hooker.

Injury is the big thing as bulk suppliers to the Ireland squad. Saracens will have same problem with England.

Also if we can kick off well in group stages after WC I would hope home wtr/semi and that is a huge benefit

Keep banging that drum. Nobody will believe you but it's consistancy in a world gone mad.

Clegg · 13-05-2019 3:13pm

Leinster struggled massively post WC 2015. They supplied the majority of that squad and will provide the majority of the squad again. Players coming back tired, needed rest and then needed to readjust to Leinster's style of play. Topped the Pro 12, lost the final and finished bottom of our European pool.

We're in a better place this time around. The squad is deeper and the coaching staff better as well with a test standard forwards coach to come is as well. But I don't expect us to react another European Cup final. It's too much to ask for these lads to go an entire season on top form.

Shefwedfan · 13-05-2019 3:56pm

Clegg wrote: »

Leinster struggled massively post WC 2015. They supplied the majority of that squad and will provide the majority of the squad again. Players coming back tired, needed rest and then needed to readjust to Leinster's style of play. Topped the Pro 12, lost the final and finished bottom of our European pool.

We're in a better replace this time around. The squad is deeper and the coaching staff better as well with a test standard forwards coach to come is as well. But I don't expect us to react another European Cup final. It's too much to ask for these lads to go an entire season on top form.

We have a whole new coaching team in 2015. When the players arrived back from the WC they knew none of the calls and we got a spanking at home, we never really recovered and Leo used the competition towards the end to give guys experience.

From a coaching point of view we have a very stable team, it might be a better example to look at the 2011/12 after the WC....I can't remember what happened towards the end of that season

blurry memory of London and lots of beer....

Shefwedfan · 13-05-2019 3:57pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Keep banging that drum. Nobody will believe you but it's consistancy in a world gone mad.

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Shefwedfan · 13-05-2019 4:04pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Which players are in decline and which are in growth. Sexton, Kearney, Healy, Toner, Cronin, Ferg, are slipping away.

Deegan, Doris, Frawley, Byrne, Baird, Dunne, Connors, Ed Byrne, Larmour are still learning.

Healy was incredible on Saturday. Best he has played in years. Toner hasn't shown any decline either. Cronin hasn't really fallen off but a strong player on bench would e required so down to Tesco I think.

Ferg hasn't been a major player for a few season, a great servant but just getting a bad run of injuries. Hopefully D Kearney can stay fit and he would be like a new signing.

R Kearney will be gone, I think a year or 2 in South of France but I dont expect him to be at Leinster next year.

Of course it is all based on the young players making the step up. Hopefully they will. Larmour really had a strong game on Saturday, especially under high ball.

Lot's of positives....keeping the coaching team together is a huge plus. Losing Leo or Lancaster would be a bigger hit to the squad

slingerz · 13-05-2019 8:19pm

i do think post RWC fatigue, whether mental or phyiscal, cannot be underrated. I think a lot of teams will struggle and you could see another 'Connacht' in the league

Shefwedfan · 13-05-2019 9:57pm

slingerz wrote: »

i do think post RWC fatigue, whether mental or phyiscal, cannot be underrated. I think a lot of teams will struggle and you could see another 'Connacht' in the league

Connacht has built up to that season for 3 years. Lam had done some great work. Saying they only won because of fatigue is a bit of a put down on the work....

Leinster never said they lost the final because of fatigue.

slingerz · 14-05-2019 9:29am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Connacht has built up to that season for 3 years. Lam had done some great work. Saying they only won because of fatigue is a bit of a put down on the work....

Leinster never said they lost the final because of fatigue.

its not the sole reason that connacht were successful. but it definitely helped them that they were not as impacted as others by international committments

Dubinusa · 14-05-2019 12:21pm

Still no update on next years squad!
I think we'll plateau next year. The turnover of quality players is astounding. The influx of youngsters is fine, but the experience factor could be damning.
Whilst I agree that lads should move between provinces I think Leinster have suffered. The depth is not as good and will only take time to become as good.
I reckon Ulster have really stepped up and their squad is looking strong.
Thank God, the academy is still turning out quality lads.

arsebiscuits1 · 14-05-2019 2:10pm

Ultimately, the players we are losing, none of them are first choice (presuming Rob stays)

The leadership and experience factor does come in to play losing several hundred caps in one go.

When that happens new leaders step up. Professional sport moves on a lot quicker than some people think.

Leinster has a pretty proud history of young players stepping up to the task.

Shefwedfan · 14-05-2019 2:26pm

I think at this stage we have to take it that Rob will be gone after the WC. If he was going to stay he would have signed a new contract.

He will be going off central contract, Leinster from a business point of view would potentially have to look at a pay-as-you-play contract. He will be retiring from international rugby I would expect after WC....all points to him heading somewhere....might join the Irish revolution in London Irish

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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