Eir rural FTTH thread II

wheresthebeef · 14-03-2018 2:08am

Marlow wrote: »

Yes. All installs are done by KN. And that experience doesn't change.

Now ... if things go sideways with Eir, you're left to deal with it yourself. They don't even seem to pick up on the install failing.

If you order with most other providers, they'll keep kicking OpenEIR and KN to get the job done.

I recently came across an Eir install, where the person is waiting since May 2017 to get her install completed (and yes, KN was there in May 2017). That's obviously one of the worse cases. And yes, she still doesn't have FTTH.

/M

That's interesting about the other providers being more proactive. I'll bear that in mind.

Sorry to ask again, but are there other providers available to me. I've just gone through the generic list on fibrerollout and there seems to be quite a few more. I can see Westnet is restricted to Mayo alright, but are there others available to me that aren't showing there? I understand that your company is Airwire and that you're able to provide FTTH. Why aren't you showing when I put in my Eircode?

Marlow · 14-03-2018 2:16am

wheresthebeef wrote: »

Sorry to ask again, but are there other providers available to me. I've just gone through the generic list on fibrerollout and there seems to be quite a few more. I can see Westnet is restricted to Mayo alright, but are there others available to me that aren't showing there?

The specific listings are probably based on which exchanges each provider has enabled or active connections on. Who knows. Even the generic listing is not correct. I see at least one provider on there listed for FTTC/VDSL only, that also does FTTH. And there's at least one provider, that isn't listed at all.

I've got my fingers in more than just one pie

...

Where you are: Digiweb, Net1, Pure Telecom and Airwire.

/M

wheresthebeef · 14-03-2018 2:28am

Marlow wrote: »

The specific listings are probably based on which exchanges each provider has enabled or active connections on. Who knows. Even the generic listing is not correct. I see at least one provider on there listed for FTTC/VDSL only, that also does FTTH. And there's at least one provider, that isn't listed at all.

I've got my fingers in more than just one pie ...

Where you are: Digiweb, Net1, Pure Telecom and Airwire.

/M

That's a little disconcerting and is surely bad business practice by OpenEir if certain providers are not listed or are incorrectly listed. Doesn't lend well to a level playing field.

I just want FTTH ultimately and I will sell my soul to any provider who can give it to me.

Whichever pies you are in, judging by your posts here, I'd say they are much more knowledgeable pies. Thanks for all your help and for the amount of information you've posted in this thread.

Marlow · 14-03-2018 2:32am

wheresthebeef wrote: »

That's a little disconcerting and is surely bad business practice by OpenEir if certain providers are not listed or are incorrectly listed. Doesn't lend well to a level playing field.

Well. There is that biased opinion, that Eir and OpenEIR should be totally split. But that's an entire different discussion.

I believe (in their defense), that the problem is, that their database is an utter mess. OpenEIR has 2 billing systems ... one that dates back to 1972 (called TIS ... or Telephone Information System ...and yes ... FTTH connection still are processed through that).

Eir retail actually has 5 billing systems. And you never know, which one you land in.

There is a process and people hired to fix that, but I think it'll take them decades ... well .. that's an educated guess on the timeframe.

/M

wheresthebeef · 14-03-2018 2:52am

Marlow wrote: »

Well. There is that biased opinion, that Eir and OpenEIR should be totally split. But that's an entire different discussion.

I believe (in their defense), that the problem is, that their database is an utter mess. OpenEIR has 2 billing systems ... one that dates back to 1972 (called TIS ... or Telephone Information System ...and yes ... FTTH connection still are processed through that).

Eir retail actually has 5 billing systems. And you never know, which one you land in. There is a process and people hired to fix that, but I think it'll take them decades ... well .. that's an educated guess on the timeframe.

/M

I've worked in Healthcare and the Civil Service (briefly). A myriad of ancient systems that don't interface and will never be upgraded is not surprising. If you saw what the Revenue Commissioners use to do your taxes or what hospitals use to admit patients, you'd probably think Eir were streets ahead ðŸ˜œ.

Westnet: Paul · 14-03-2018 10:54am

wheresthebeef wrote: »

I can see Westnet is restricted to Mayo...

That's not really true, and I'm not sure why it says so on the fibrerollout.ie website. I've asked our open eir account manager to have a look at it.

It's true that we mostly cover Mayo, but we also routinely offer services in parts of Sligo, Roscommon, and Galway. We can provide service anywhere in the country, but we don't routinely do so, as we prefer to only offer service where we can easily offer hands-on technical support from our base in Castlebar.

MBSnr · 14-03-2018 11:04am

Westnet: Paul wrote: »

That's not really true, and I'm not sure why it says so on the fibrerollout.ie website. I've asked our open eir account manager to have a look at it.

It's true that we mostly cover Mayo, but we also routinely offer services in parts of Sligo, Roscommon, and Galway. We can provide service anywhere in the country, but we don't routinely do so, as we prefer to only offer service where we can easily offer hands-on technical support from our base in Castlebar.

Are there any plans to offer a bundle - phone as well as broadband? I'm in Mayo and am likely to choose anyone but Eir (once we finally get FTTH), but a phone bundle is required.

Westnet: Paul · 14-03-2018 11:43am

MBSnr wrote: »

Are there any plans to offer a bundle - phone as well as broadband? I'm in Mayo and am likely to choose anyone but Eir (once we finally get FTTH), but a phone bundle is required.

The short answer is "yes".

The longer answer is that we're actively working on it. We've signed up with a voice carrier and we're currently testing integration, billing, and porting, and figuring out the commercials. Hopefully we'll have something to market in the near future, or at least by the time FTTH is available to you.

MBSnr · 14-03-2018 12:11pm

Westnet: Paul wrote: »

The short answer is "yes".

The longer answer is that we're actively working on it. We've signed up with a voice carrier and we're currently testing integration, billing, and porting, and figuring out the commercials. Hopefully we'll have something to market in the near future, or at least by the time FTTH is available to you.

Thanks! They just started running the cable from the exchange this week. I'd imagine it'll go live in the next 3 months. Would you have that up and running by then?

Westnet: Paul · 14-03-2018 1:26pm

MBSnr wrote: »

Thanks! They just started running the cable from the exchange this week. I'd imagine it'll go live in the next 3 months. Would you have that up and running by then?

I would hope so, yes.

If you want to PM me contact details including your Eircode, I can keep them on file and notify you as soon as we get word that FTTH is available to you.

wheresthebeef · 14-03-2018 7:58pm

Westnet: Paul wrote: »

That's not really true, and I'm not sure why it says so on the fibrerollout.ie website. I've asked our open eir account manager to have a look at it.

It's true that we mostly cover Mayo, but we also routinely offer services in parts of Sligo, Roscommon, and Galway. We can provide service anywhere in the country, but we don't routinely do so, as we prefer to only offer service where we can easily offer hands-on technical support from our base in Castlebar.

Your package looks to be seriously competitive though. Given no install fee and it would appear you don't apply a data cap. Do you have a FUP? Want a customer in Kildare ðŸ˜

Just as a point of interest. As a provider, where is the network demarcation for support. Is it a case of you are responsible for everything after the DP, or is it from the NTU onward?

Grab All Association · 14-03-2018 8:13pm

I see they don’t offer a 1000mb package though. And what kind of router do they offer?

Marlow · 14-03-2018 8:25pm

Grab All Association wrote: »

I see they don’t offer a 1000mb package though. And what kind of router do they offer?

Westnet uses the AVM Fritz!Box. Same as a lot of other providers, who don't want to give their customers muck.

/M

Westnet: Paul · 14-03-2018 8:53pm

wheresthebeef wrote: »

Just as a point of interest. As a provider, where is the network demarcation for support. Is it a case of you are responsible for everything after the DP, or is it from the NTU onward?

The NTU or ONT is open eir's responsibility. Anything on the customer side of it is ours.

That said, the customer reports all faults through us. If the fault is upstream of us, we report it in turn to open eir and manage it on the customer's behalf.

Grab All Association wrote: »

I see they don’t offer a 1000mb package though.

Yeah, the website needs some love. We do offer 300Mb/s and 1000Mb/s packages.

And what kind of router do they offer?

FritzBox 4040.

MBSnr · 14-03-2018 10:57pm

^^^
If you start to offer a phone bundle, is that VoIP only or still using the copper line if in place? I'm a little vague on how suppliers tackle this. I think Eir use the existing copper if it's still in place? Digiweb and others VoIP?

If VoIP (from my limited reading) wouldn't the Fritzbox have to be a 7560 or similar with an analogue phone socket?

Marlow · 14-03-2018 11:00pm

MBSnr wrote: »

^^^
If you start to offer a phone bundle, is that VoIP only or still using the copper line if in place? I'm a little vague on how suppliers tackle this. I think Eir use the existing copper if it's still in place? Digiweb and others VoIP?

If VoIP (from my limited reading) wouldn't the Fritzbox have to be a 7560 or similar with an analogue phone socket?

Eir are also migrating customers to VoIP. They want to get rid of the voice circuitry and hardware, as it's end of life and costs a fortune to maintain.

A lot of providers provide the phone connection on a seperate Vlan, so it's not affected by the connection limits.

The beauty of the Fritz!Box is, that if it handles the VoIP accounts and the speeds are set in the router, it'll throttle the internet usage down, when a call is established .. to ensure there is enough bandwidth for the call. So with the Fritz!Box routers, you even are pretty much guaranteed good voice quality on in-band VoIP.

And yes: Fritz!Box 7560 (Gbit, Dual-Wifi) and 7430 (often used for VDSL) have analog ports. But even the 4040 can be VoIP enabled using AVM's Fritz!Fon App. You just don't have DECT and classic telephone devices with that.

/M

Westnet: Paul · 14-03-2018 11:33pm

MBSnr wrote: »

^^^
If you start to offer a phone bundle, is that VoIP only or still using the copper line if in place? I'm a little vague on how suppliers tackle this. I think Eir use the existing copper if it's still in place? Digiweb and others VoIP?

If VoIP (from my limited reading) wouldn't the Fritzbox have to be a 7560 or similar with an analogue phone socket?

It will be VoIP only, and yeah, we'll provide a router with a built-in ATA for voice services.

BuzzG · 15-03-2018 12:33am

Westnet: Paul - whats the cost of the 300MB and 1000MB products? Thanks in advance.

Gonzo · 15-03-2018 12:40am

I had no idea Westnet offered FTTH services outside of Mayo, will look into it when my contract with Eir is up!

Westnet: Paul · 15-03-2018 9:25am

BuzzG wrote: »

Westnet: Paul - whats the cost of the 300MB and 1000MB products? Thanks in advance.

€65 and €85, respectively.

Gonzo wrote: »

I had no idea Westnet offered FTTH services outside of Mayo, will look into it when my contract with Eir is up!

It's unlikely that we'll be in a position to offer you a service, for a few reasons: it would mean paying eir to haul your traffic across the country to Castlebar and then carrying it back to Dublin and on to the world. Your latency would suffer - not much, but it's a factor. And, as I've mentioned before, we tend to supply a customer base that we can easily drive to for hands-on service if required.

It's not true to say that we're Mayo-only, but we're pretty well confined to the west region. We've made exceptions for branch offices of Mayo-based companies who really just want a VPN from those offices to Mayo.

BuzzG · 15-03-2018 6:07pm

@ Westnet: Paul - thank you!

tsue921i8wljb3 · 15-03-2018 7:42pm

39612 FTTH connections at the end of Q4 2017 according to the latest Comreg Key Quarterly Data. Obviously this is split between all the operators, Openeir and SIRO being the largest. It seems about 10000 connections are being installed per quarter.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication/quarterly-key-data-report-q4-2017/

wheresthebeef · 16-03-2018 12:42am

Marlow wrote: »

If he turns up with a roll of copper, just refuse the install. And order from a provider who cares

/M

Got in touch with them. As suspected, our fibre to the cabinet install was all lined up for next week with Eir. Has now been cancelled and FTTH install scheduled instead. They're order system doesn't properly deal with non unique addresses. Enter Eircode, ftth is available, proceed, enter non unique address which covers a broad area that has FTTC and FTTH in parts, system disregards Eircode and automatically assumes you want FTTC. Strike 1!

KOR101 · 16-03-2018 10:35am

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

39612 FTTH connections at the end of Q4 2017 according to the latest Comreg Key Quarterly Data. Obviously this is split between all the operators, Openeir and SIRO being the largest. It seems about 10000 connections are being installed per quarter.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication/quarterly-key-data-report-q4-2017/

I wonder about Cable broadband and FTTP. How is the recent Virgin Media expansion classified? I assume they are using fibre, not coax.

ED E · 16-03-2018 10:55am

KOR101 wrote: »

I wonder about Cable broadband and FTTP. How is the recent Virgin Media expansion classified? I assume they are using fibre, not coax.

Have they actually got a significant number or FTTH installs? I thought it was still just a small test deployment?

KOR101 · 16-03-2018 11:28am

ED E wrote: »

Have they actually got a significant number or FTTH installs? I thought it was still just a small test deployment?

Well they came into my estate in Balbriggan and ran a cable to my house and I can order it already. And Balbriggan is not even mentioned in the press reports. It's a big investment but really so they can hold their own in market share terms.

“We’ve been vindicated in that by offering services now in Gorey, Arklow, Tullamore, Ballina, Ennis, Drogheda and Dundalk. We’ve added 100,000 homes and we’ll get close to one million homes [from 880,000 currently] in the next year to 18 months.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/virgin-ireland-s-top-player-ready-to-tackle-rt%C3%A9-at-sport-1.3285507?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fmedia-and-marketing%2Fvirgin-ireland-s-top-player-ready-to-tackle-rt%25C3%25A9-at-sport-1.3285507

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/virgin-media-broadband-ireland

tsue921i8wljb3 · 16-03-2018 1:22pm

KOR101 wrote: »

Well they came into my estate in Balbriggan and ran a cable to my house and I can order it already. And Balbriggan is not even mentioned in the press reports. It's a big investment but really so they can hold their own in market share terms.

“We’ve been vindicated in that by offering services now in Gorey, Arklow, Tullamore, Ballina, Ennis, Drogheda and Dundalk. We’ve added 100,000 homes and we’ll get close to one million homes [from 880,000 currently] in the next year to 18 months.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/virgin-ireland-s-top-player-ready-to-tackle-rt%C3%A9-at-sport-1.3285507?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fmedia-and-marketing%2Fvirgin-ireland-s-top-player-ready-to-tackle-rt%25C3%25A9-at-sport-1.3285507

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/virgin-media-broadband-ireland

Is is definitely FTTH that they've installed in your estate? I only recall one post on the forum that may have been referencing a Virgin FTTH install. I'm unsure how widespread it is. If they are true FTTH then I presume Comreg would count them as FTTP as they rely on the ISPs to self report the data.

KOR101 · 16-03-2018 1:56pm

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Is is definitely FTTH that they've installed in your estate? I only recall one post on the forum that may have been referencing a Virgin FTTH install. I'm unsure how widespread it is. If they are true FTTH then I presume Comreg would count them as FTTP as they rely on the ISPs to self report the data.

As I said before I was just assuming it. On their website they say "Just get fibre broadband" but I suppose that's pretty poor proof. Is the fibre not more future proofed than coax cable?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 16-03-2018 2:02pm

KOR101 wrote: »

As I said before I was just assuming it. On their website they say "Just get fibre broadband" but I suppose that's pretty poor proof. Is the fibre not more future proofed than coax cable?

Is is more future proof. There is a thread on the Mayo forum where they are doing FTTP installs, just converting it to coax for the modem so it is a fair assumption that they are using fibre for their new builds.

KOR101 · 16-03-2018 2:06pm

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

Is is more future proof. There is a thread on the Mayo forum where they are doing FTTP installs, just converting it to coax for the modem so it is a fair assumption that they are using fibre for their new builds.

So, that leads us back to my original question about whether the FTTP figures include Virgin Media's expansion. I was a bit curious about the Cable Broadband figures as they increased only marginally, but I suppose that tallies with the point that Virgin media have been forced to do this just to maintain market share.

Eir rural FTTH thread II

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